static systems

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looking to purchase a static r/o di system.i live in a hard water area and am looking to produce 1000 ltr - 2000 ltr per day.im looking for something low maintenence.

anyone got some advice on various systems ?

 

[Cghwindowcleaning]

A lot on here will source the parts and build there own.This will probably be the cheapest option.

For me personally I prefer an off the shelf plug and play system(someone to do the work for me)

Pure freedom do a 40/40 twin pre filters,d.i and ibc tank for about a grand add a transfer pump and hose and it's good to go.

I have low pressure so need a booster pump I have also gone for inline tds metre and auto shut off for booster it came in at around £1600.

Pure freedom,grippatank and ionics all do statics have a look on their sites.

 

[spruce]

2000 liters a day? How many cleaners are you going to supply water to? Will they all be filling up at the same time?

Purefreedom do a 1000 liter IBC tank fitted out with everything you need to process water.

2400 GPD High Volume RO System C/W Auto Shut Off & 1000Ltr Tank - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

You may need to add a booster pump to that. You could even add another IBC tank next to it and link them together so you have 2000 liters stored. You could also add a second membrane housing to boost production but you could have an issue with water supply. (Hardwater areas also suffer from furred up water pipes which restrict the flow of water through them.)

If you are in a hard water area (again, not enough info) you may need to consider a water softener ahead of the system. Producing this amount of water it would need to be an industrial type, one that automatically regenerates itself.

To produce 2000 liters of water a day means that you will be drawing between 4k and 6k of water from your tap/water supplier a day.

Whilst I've answered what I believe is a solution to your question, I get the impression that you are a little out of your depth here. I don't mean any disrespect, but usually we start off wfp window cleaning on a smaller scale and then grow.

.

 

[spruce]

Looking back on your previous posts you have a 700 liter system fitted by the boys in Corby. Nice. You are also looking for a part time assistant 2 or 3 days a week.

From experience 2 window cleaners working off the same van will get through that tank in a day with a little to spare, but you have to not waste water. A fellow windie locally has a lad with him 3 days a week. There are a couple of days that he has to top up 'to be sure'. There is nothing worse than running out of water half way through a house. On those days he goes home at lunch time and fills up again.These are young fit guys who get though an unbelievable amount of cleans a day compared to what I can do.

He has a 650 liter PureFreedom tank on his van and processes water at home. He uses a 300GPD RoMan type r/o but needs a small booster pump. Without the booster pump his r/o doesn't produce enough water.

So if this is your business, its the same as my mate and a Purefreedom single 4040 static system will be more than enough for you. It automatically fills when you draw water and switches off when the tank is full. If you put another van on the road at a later date, then you fill up in the morning and the second van in the evening, or the other way around.

Having a second cleaner in the van doesn't mean that you will do twice the amount of houses in a day.

A single operator on his own will use around 350 liters. We fitted a 500 liter tank to son in laws van and he very really used it all in one day. He never completely filled his tank either. He drew water from us as well. Once we had the 4040 installed, we had plenty of water although we staggered fillups. We had 3 vans altogether drawing from that IBC tank.

.

.

 

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2000 liters a day? How many cleaners are you going to supply water to? Will they all be filling up at the same time?
Purefreedom do a 1000 liter IBC tank fitted out with everything you need to process water.

2400 GPD High Volume RO System C/W Auto Shut Off & 1000Ltr Tank - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

You may need to add a booster pump to that. You could even add another IBC tank next to it and link them together so you have 2000 liters stored. You could also add a second membrane housing to boost production but you could have an issue with water supply. (Hardwater areas also suffer from furred up water pipes which restrict the flow of water through them.)

If you are in a hard water area (again, not enough info) you may need to consider a water softener ahead of the system. Producing this amount of water it would need to be an industrial type, one that automatically regenerates itself.

To produce 2000 liters of water a day means that you will be drawing between 4k and 6k of water from your tap/water supplier a day.

Whilst I've answered what I believe is a solution to your question, I get the impression that you are a little out of your depth here. I don't mean any disrespect, but usually we start off wfp window cleaning on a smaller scale and then grow.

.

great advice,much apreciated.only swapped over to wfp a month ago.running two vans 4/5 men using 1500 - 1700 ltr daily having to drive half each way to refill everyday ! total waste of time and money.ill def go for an off the shelf package. would you recomend facelift ?

 

[spruce]

great advice,much apreciated.only swapped over to wfp a month ago.running two vans 4/5 men using 1500 - 1700 ltr daily having to drive half each way to refill everyday ! total waste of time and money.ill def go for an off the shelf package. would you recomend facelift ?

I don't know Facelift products from experience but the systems look good. They are also a credible company with a long history in WFP.

There was much competitive banter when they launched the Phoenix range of carbon fiber poles a few years ago. Forum uses still say that the clamps Gardiners use are superior to the Facelift ones, but others prefer the Facelift clamps mechanical application.

I have always used Gardiner poles, they've done us proud and it will probably be what we stick with. I'm a DIY guy but would consider a Facelift system if I were to go down that route. They look much prettier than the PF units, although they both do the same job. /emoticons/wink.png

With your operation and requirements then you are probably better off with 2 x IBC tanks linked so you have water available for everyone at once. As much as you insist fill times are staggered, it doesn't always work out that way. I still think a single 4040 is enough, its just you will need more storage capacity. With a float switch and solenoid valve the system will automatically refill.

2000 Litre Slimline Upright Water Tank - Bulk Water Storage Tanks - Water Storage - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

without Booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System (40" Membrane) 40" HF4 - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

Although PF sell a unit with a booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System 40" HF4 With Large Booster Pump - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

I would stick with the non booster pump unit but fit this booster pump as it has an incorporated electronic controller.

Switched Booster Pump Kit - 240v for PRF-RO systems - Booster Pumps - Water Treatment - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

You will need a float switch with solenoid valve (Gardiners and PF sell them) and a transfer pump and hose. Most cleaners use submersible pumps.

Being in a hard water area you will need to flush your membranes a little more often.

You will need to consider long life carbon block prefilters as they are what remove the chlorine from the water before r/o. Chlorine destroys membranes. A Fiberdyne 20" prefilter from Gardiners costs £24.00 and is good for 75700 liters. At 2 to 1 waste to pure you will use 6000 liters a day making 2000 liters of pure. Those prefilters will need to be changed every 2 weeks approx. you would probably be better off fitting a submeter to monitor your actual water usage. You will need this anyway to claim a sewage rebate from your water authority.

A ordinary carbon block has a service life of around 12000 liters so would need to be changed every second day. (This is following manufacturers specs. They obviously don't know how much chlorine is in your water so would work on the upper limit of chlorine content. In other words, it could be that your supply only has 1/2 the amount of chlorine in the water that their calculations were based on. In that case you filters will last longer. But we don't have the equipment to measure fine amounts of chlorine in the water so I found I'm safe sticking to the manufacturers specs. There are chlorine testers on the market that the swimming pool guys use, but they give an indication of chlorine but aren't accurate. We used them oversees when monitoring the amount of chlorine in our swimming pool at home.)

One of the cleaners in Southampton has gone one step further. He has a large di vessel 1/2 filled with acid washed charcoal as his carbon block prefilter. He changes that once a year. He estimates that he filter 400,000 liters through it a year (waste + pure.)

June from GAPS water is your contact if you go that route. Another cleaner who also has a few vans was enquiring about this system as he is tired of the regular maintenance his system requires. (In this case its di vessel first and the sediment filter second. The sediment filter fitted this way round ensures that any small charcoal pieces are prevented from going into the membranes.)

There is another Franchise owner who has set up each Franchisee with his own r/o at home. This might be a way around your situation.

Unfortunately, using this amount of water needs daily monitoring that the water is pure. Send the lads out with water that isn't up to cleaning standards is expensive to rectify ie . recleans.

4040 membranes come in either HF4 or HF5 specs. The HF5 is better for lower water pressures.

As I've mentioned on here before, our 4040 has an HF5 membrane (it is a little more expensive) but works perfectly well at 50 psi water pressure and no booster pump. It produces 2 liters of pure per minute with 2 liters of waste. Our water tds id between 99 and 125 so we can afford to run at a 'tighter' ratio.

.

 

[David K]

The 4021 is a great system. It produces 1000l at my home in 18 hours , without booster pump . With boost I guess it could really fast , check out Doug Atkinsons video of it ..

 

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I don't know Facelift products from experience but the systems look good. They are also a credible company with a long history in WFP.
There was much competitive banter when they launched the Phoenix range of carbon fiber poles a few years ago. Forum uses still say that the clamps Gardiners use are superior to the Facelift ones, but others prefer the Facelift clamps mechanical application.

I have always used Gardiner poles, they've done us proud and it will probably be what we stick with. I'm a DIY guy but would consider a Facelift system if I were to go down that route. They look much prettier than the PF units, although they both do the same job. /emoticons/wink.png

With your operation and requirements then you are probably better off with 2 x IBC tanks linked so you have water available for everyone at once. As much as you insist fill times are staggered, it doesn't always work out that way. I still think a single 4040 is enough, its just you will need more storage capacity. With a float switch and solenoid valve the system will automatically refill.

2000 Litre Slimline Upright Water Tank - Bulk Water Storage Tanks - Water Storage - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

without Booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System (40" Membrane) 40" HF4 - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

Although PF sell a unit with a booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System 40" HF4 With Large Booster Pump - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

I would stick with the non booster pump unit but fit this booster pump as it has an incorporated electronic controller.

Switched Booster Pump Kit - 240v for PRF-RO systems - Booster Pumps - Water Treatment - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

You will need a float switch with solenoid valve (Gardiners and PF sell them) and a transfer pump and hose. Most cleaners use submersible pumps.

Being in a hard water area you will need to flush your membranes a little more often.

You will need to consider long life carbon block prefilters as they are what remove the chlorine from the water before r/o. Chlorine destroys membranes. A Fiberdyne 20" prefilter from Gardiners costs £24.00 and is good for 75700 liters. At 2 to 1 waste to pure you will use 6000 liters a day making 2000 liters of pure. Those prefilters will need to be changed every 2 weeks approx. you would probably be better off fitting a submeter to monitor your actual water usage. You will need this anyway to claim a sewage rebate from your water authority.

A ordinary carbon block has a service life of around 12000 liters so would need to be changed every second day. (This is following manufacturers specs. They obviously don't know how much chlorine is in your water so would work on the upper limit of chlorine content. In other words, it could be that your supply only has 1/2 the amount of chlorine in the water that their calculations were based on. In that case you filters will last longer. But we don't have the equipment to measure fine amounts of chlorine in the water so I found I'm safe sticking to the manufacturers specs. There are chlorine testers on the market that the swimming pool guys use, but they give an indication of chlorine but aren't accurate. We used them oversees when monitoring the amount of chlorine in our swimming pool at home.)

One of the cleaners in Southampton has gone one step further. He has a large di vessel 1/2 filled with acid washed charcoal as his carbon block prefilter. He changes that once a year. He estimates that he filter 400,000 liters through it a year (waste + pure.)

June from GAPS water is your contact if you go that route. Another cleaner who also has a few vans was enquiring about this system as he is tired of the regular maintenance his system requires. (In this case its di vessel first and the sediment filter second. The sediment filter fitted this way round ensures that any small charcoal pieces are prevented from going into the membranes.)

There is another Franchise owner who has set up each Franchisee with his own r/o at home. This might be a way around your situation.

Unfortunately, using this amount of water needs daily monitoring that the water is pure. Send the lads out with water that isn't up to cleaning standards is expensive to rectify ie . recleans.

4040 membranes come in either HF4 or HF5 specs. The HF5 is better for lower water pressures.

As I've mentioned on here before, our 4040 has an HF5 membrane (it is a little more expensive) but works perfectly well at 50 psi water pressure and no booster pump. It produces 2 liters of pure per minute with 2 liters of waste. Our water tds id between 99 and 125 so we can afford to run at a 'tighter' ratio.

.

 

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brilliant advice/info. thanks very much !

 

[adwindowcleaning]

static systems - facelift zero 1 or purefreedom 2400 .gpd

anyone got one of these ?

looking into getting a static .any opinions/experiences/info would be very helpfull

 

[spruce]

static systems - facelift zero 1 or purefreedom 2400 .gpd
anyone got one of these ?

looking into getting a static .any opinions/experiences/info would be very helpfull

Very much the same thing from what I can see. Booster pump is extra as it is with the PF unit, so as long as you are comparing the identical spec they are both virtually the same. They both have the superior champ housing (in my opinion anyway). They each supply different membranes, but they are both quality ones.

.

 

[adwindowcleaning]

Very much the same thing from what I can see. Booster pump is extra as it is with the PF unit, so as long as you are comparing the identical spec they are both virtually the same. They both have the superior champ housing (in my opinion anyway). They each supply different membranes, but they are both quality ones.
.

thanks very much for your opinion.verey helpfull

 

[spruce]

thanks very much for your opinion.verey helpfull

Before you head off I suggest you buy a water pressure tester and see what your water pressure is. You may well get away with an HF5 membrane without booster pump if it 50 or above psi. Liters per minute from the tap is also a good thing to test.

.

 

[adwindowcleaning]

Before you head off I suggest you buy a water pressure tester and see what your water pressure is. You may well get away with an HF5 membrane without booster pump if it 50 or above psi. Liters per minute from the tap is also a good thing to test.
.

ok,many thanks

 

[Greener]

Before you head off I suggest you buy a water pressure tester and see what your water pressure is. You may well get away with an HF5 membrane without booster pump if it 50 or above psi. Liters per minute from the tap is also a good thing to test.
.

Hi @spruce, very informative as usual I have purchased a water pressure tester the type you screw onto the garden tap and has a metal hose with a pressure gauge on the other end. The question id like to ask you if possible is if the water pressure is reading lets say 60psi on the gauge when attached to the tap would the water pressure drop if once connected to the RO via a hose around 20ft in length ( the RO is in the garage 20ft away from the water tap). TIA Greener

 

[Dave B]

@Greener there are some formulas etc online that work out what the pressure drop is at distance but i have a long garden and the ro is on the shed wall at the far end of the garden and tap is on the house wall and have no noticeable drop in pressure

I use a hose reel which i extend up the garden when needed until the spring when i will be plumbing it up the garden attatched to the fence with jg pushfits and wide pipe

 

[Greener]

@Greener there are some formulas etc online that work out what the pressure drop is at distance but i have a long garden and the ro is on the shed wall at the far end of the garden and tap is on the house wall and have no noticeable drop in pressureI use a hose reel which i extend up the garden when needed until the spring when i will be plumbing it up the garden attatched to the fence with jg pushfits and wide pipe

Thanks for your promt reply @daveyboy ;-)

 

[spruce]

Hi @spruce, very informative as usual /emoticons/smile.png I have purchased a water pressure tester the type you screw onto the garden tap and has a metal hose with a pressure gauge on the other end. The question id like to ask you if possible is if the water pressure is reading lets say 60psi on the gauge when attached to the tap would the water pressure drop if once connected to the RO via a hose around 20ft in length ( the RO is in the garage 20ft away from the water tap). TIA Greener

At 60psi you won't have a noticeable pressure drop 20 feet away if you use 1/2" piping as @daveyboy says. My son's house supply from the pavement has further to travel than that. Being a bit slow this morning, 60 psi is adequate to run an r/o off, so a Machine Mart booster pump isn't going to do much for you tbh.

 

[adwindowcleaning]

Looking back on your previous posts you have a 700 liter system fitted by the boys in Corby. Nice. You are also looking for a part time assistant 2 or 3 days a week.
From experience 2 window cleaners working off the same van will get through that tank in a day with a little to spare, but you have to not waste water. A fellow windie locally has a lad with him 3 days a week. There are a couple of days that he has to top up 'to be sure'. There is nothing worse than running out of water half way through a house. On those days he goes home at lunch time and fills up again.These are young fit guys who get though an unbelievable amount of cleans a day compared to what I can do.

He has a 650 liter PureFreedom tank on his van and processes water at home. He uses a 300GPD RoMan type r/o but needs a small booster pump. Without the booster pump his r/o doesn't produce enough water.

So if this is your business, its the same as my mate and a Purefreedom single 4040 static system will be more than enough for you. It automatically fills when you draw water and switches off when the tank is full. If you put another van on the road at a later date, then you fill up in the morning and the second van in the evening, or the other way around.

Having a second cleaner in the van doesn't mean that you will do twice the amount of houses in a day.

A single operator on his own will use around 350 liters. We fitted a 500 liter tank to son in laws van and he very really used it all in one day. He never completely filled his tank either. He drew water from us as well. Once we had the 4040 installed, we had plenty of water although we staggered fillups. We had 3 vans altogether drawing from that IBC tank.

.thanks for your help,cheers

.

 

[adwindowcleaning]

I don't know Facelift products from experience but the systems look good. They are also a credible company with a long history in WFP.
There was much competitive banter when they launched the Phoenix range of carbon fiber poles a few years ago. Forum uses still say that the clamps Gardiners use are superior to the Facelift ones, but others prefer the Facelift clamps mechanical application.

I have always used Gardiner poles, they've done us proud and it will probably be what we stick with. I'm a DIY guy but would consider a Facelift system if I were to go down that route. They look much prettier than the PF units, although they both do the same job. /emoticons/wink.png

With your operation and requirements then you are probably better off with 2 x IBC tanks linked so you have water available for everyone at once. As much as you insist fill times are staggered, it doesn't always work out that way. I still think a single 4040 is enough, its just you will need more storage capacity. With a float switch and solenoid valve the system will automatically refill.

2000 Litre Slimline Upright Water Tank - Bulk Water Storage Tanks - Water Storage - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

without Booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System (40" Membrane) 40" HF4 - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

Although PF sell a unit with a booster pump

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System 40" HF4 With Large Booster Pump - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

I would stick with the non booster pump unit but fit this booster pump as it has an incorporated electronic controller.

Switched Booster Pump Kit - 240v for PRF-RO systems - Booster Pumps - Water Treatment - Pure Water Systems - All Products Gardiner Pole Systems

You will need a float switch with solenoid valve (Gardiners and PF sell them) and a transfer pump and hose. Most cleaners use submersible pumps.

Being in a hard water area you will need to flush your membranes a little more often.

You will need to consider long life carbon block prefilters as they are what remove the chlorine from the water before r/o. Chlorine destroys membranes. A Fiberdyne 20" prefilter from Gardiners costs £24.00 and is good for 75700 liters. At 2 to 1 waste to pure you will use 6000 liters a day making 2000 liters of pure. Those prefilters will need to be changed every 2 weeks approx. you would probably be better off fitting a submeter to monitor your actual water usage. You will need this anyway to claim a sewage rebate from your water authority.

A ordinary carbon block has a service life of around 12000 liters so would need to be changed every second day. (This is following manufacturers specs. They obviously don't know how much chlorine is in your water so would work on the upper limit of chlorine content. In other words, it could be that your supply only has 1/2 the amount of chlorine in the water that their calculations were based on. In that case you filters will last longer. But we don't have the equipment to measure fine amounts of chlorine in the water so I found I'm safe sticking to the manufacturers specs. There are chlorine testers on the market that the swimming pool guys use, but they give an indication of chlorine but aren't accurate. We used them oversees when monitoring the amount of chlorine in our swimming pool at home.)

One of the cleaners in Southampton has gone one step further. He has a large di vessel 1/2 filled with acid washed charcoal as his carbon block prefilter. He changes that once a year. He estimates that he filter 400,000 liters through it a year (waste + pure.)

June from GAPS water is your contact if you go that route. Another cleaner who also has a few vans was enquiring about this system as he is tired of the regular maintenance his system requires. (In this case its di vessel first and the sediment filter second. The sediment filter fitted this way round ensures that any small charcoal pieces are prevented from going into the membranes.)

There is another Franchise owner who has set up each Franchisee with his own r/o at home. This might be a way around your situation.

Unfortunately, using this amount of water needs daily monitoring that the water is pure. Send the lads out with water that isn't up to cleaning standards is expensive to rectify ie . recleans.

4040 membranes come in either HF4 or HF5 specs. The HF5 is better for lower water pressures.

As I've mentioned on here before, our 4040 has an HF5 membrane (it is a little more expensive) but works perfectly well at 50 psi water pressure and no booster pump. It produces 2 liters of pure per minute with 2 liters of waste. Our water tds id between 99 and 125 so we can afford to run at a 'tighter' ratio.

.

great advice,thanks

 

[Greener]

At 60psi you won't have a noticeable pressure drop 20 feet away if you use 1/2" piping as @daveyboy says. My son's house supply from the pavement has further to travel than that. Being a bit slow this morning, 60 psi is adequate to run an r/o off, so a Machine Mart booster pump isn't going to do much for you tbh.

Hi @spruce thanks for your reply /emoticons/smile.png I was looking at purchasing the pure freedom 2400gpd RO with HF4 membrane

2400 GPD High Volume Reverse Osmosis System (40" Membrane) 40" HF4 - Reverse Osmosis - Water Purification

Ive tested my water pressure with a pressure gauge I got from Toolstation and it reads as Ive got a water pressure from my outside tap of 75psi so id like to think I wont require a booster pump?. The more and more I think about it I want to build my own static system, ive found this kit from Vyair your thoughts would be very much appreciated. Complete Commercial 4040 RO System. - Vyair (UK) Ltd

I presume you comment "a Machine Mart booster pump isn't going to do much for you tbh" is regarding the post I put about on I was looking at?

TIA Greener