The evolution dilemma.....

[Leeds]

It's the one word to make you cringe!
EMPLOYEE.

No one will ever take your business as seriously as you do. :sad:

They won't. But you can get them close.

 

[Spartan]

It's the one word to make you cringe!
EMPLOYEE.

No one will ever take your business as seriously as you do. :sad:

A partner then (or someone along those lines)

As you so rightly say, if they have as much time/money invested in the business as you do then the drive will be there.

Me and my best mate often talk about going in together with the work, it makes perfect sense for us, he has certain qualities that would benefit me and vise versa.... We're both just too comfortable at the moment /emoticons/biggrin.png in time we probably will

 

[Leeds]

It's the one word to make you cringe!
EMPLOYEE.

No one will ever take your business as seriously as you do. :sad:

They won't. But you can get them close.

 

[Dave B]

A partner then (or someone along those lines)As you so rightly say, if they have as much time/money invested in the business as you do then the drive will be there.

Me and my best mate often talk about going in together with the work, it makes perfect sense for us, he has certain qualities that would benefit me and vise versa.... We're both just too comfortable at the moment /emoticons/biggrin.png in time we probably will

Made that mistake in the past

Partnerships don't work and also ruin friendships

 

[Spartan]

Made that mistake in the pastPartnerships don't work and also ruin friendships

Obviously it would have to be with the right individual.

There's loads of partnerships up & down the country that are successful.

Needn't ruin a friendship...

 

[Dave B]

It's when you think it's the right person then you discover it isn't

Just have to be carefull is what i am saying

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I would partner with a financially invested individual I dont know before I partner with a friend.

 

[Adams0211]

Why not get your lad to do the windows and you do the add ons?

 

[luca]

It's the one word to make you cringe!
EMPLOYEE.

No one will ever take your business as seriously as you do. :sad:

I don't agree, if you search you will find... my business is massive in comparison (still only a fledgling compared to where I want to be in a couple of years) and it's only got there by having staff... you have to search and go through guys that make you cringe but if you persevere you will find a diamond, then later another diamond!! Granted no one will ever be as passionate or as knowledgeable as you but if their both hard working and reliable then you can teach them... it's all about the exit plan for me and if you can make work that's where the power is. In my humble opinion...

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[ANF-Window-Cleaning]

No one will ever take your business as seriously as you do. :sad:

Good point but still worth putting the feelers out maybe?

 

[Greener]

take another guy on ,self employed canny understand how your round was"int full before,I,ve had word with my accountant had all clear to take guy on self employed with kitted out van

Hi @Duncs, will this guy be solely Cleaning customers from you round or will they also be Cleaning their own customers?

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[David K]

I would do what i like the Best , primarily.

 

[Duncs]

all my own work

 

[Greener]

all my own work

Hi @Duncs, The reason I ask is because I to am looking at taking someone on at the start of March. I thought it would be as simply as getting the guy to register as self employed so he can sort out all his Tax ,NI and PLI obligations, saving me the hassle. However I have been advised to by my accountant that if I am supplying the equipment, uniform and work load that he must categorically be treated as an employee. Making me responsible for all his Tax ,NI and PLI not to mention holiday pay, sick pay and pension as well as other things.

After doing much research on this area how I understand it is this:

Self-employed is a situation in which an individual works for himself instead of working for an employer that pays a salary or a wage. A self-employed individual earns his income through conducting profitable operations from a trade or business that he operates directly. They have the final say in how the business is run, They risk their own money in the business,They are responsible for meeting the losses as well as taking the profits, They provide the main items of equipment they need to do the job, They have to correct unsatisfactory work in your own time and at your own expense. The things most of us do on a daily basis.

If a person solely carries out work that YOU set out using the tools that YOU also supply and is paid by only you, then he will be classed as an employee by the HRMC.

Once again this is how I've been advised and as to how I understand it reading stuff from the HRMC site as well as others. And why would they make it easy for us anyway /emoticons/wink.png

 

[Greener]

Hi @Duncs, The reason I ask is because I to am looking at taking someone on at the start of March. I thought it would be as simply as getting the guy to register as self employed so he can sort out all his Tax ,NI and PLI obligations, saving me the hassle. However I have been advised to by my accountant that if I am supplying the equipment, uniform and work load that he must categorically be treated as an employee. Making me responsible for all his Tax ,NI and PLI not to mention holiday pay, sick pay and pension as well as other things.
After doing much research on this area how I understand it is this:

Self-employed is a situation in which an individual works for himself instead of working for an employer that pays a salary or a wage. A self-employed individual earns his income through conducting profitable operations from a trade or business that he operates directly. They have the final say in how the business is run, They risk their own money in the business,They are responsible for meeting the losses as well as taking the profits, They provide the main items of equipment they need to do the job, They have to correct unsatisfactory work in your own time and at your own expense. The things most of us do on a daily basis.

If a person solely carries out work that YOU set out using the tools that YOU also supply and is paid by only you, then he will be classed as an employee by the HRMC.

Once again this is how I've been advised and as to how I understand it reading stuff from the HRMC site as well as others. And why would they make it easy for us anyway /emoticons/wink.png

If you have no financial risk, if you do not have to correct work at your own expense, if you do not have to provide your own equipment, then this is an indicator of employment.

The consequence of paying as a self employed person when they are in fact are employed is that national insurance and tax will be significantly underpaid. If HMRC carry out a compliance check on the bussiness paying them, there is likely to be additional costs with interest and penalties.

If you are paying someone to help you, then you need to decide on their employment status. It is better (and much cheaper) to set up a simple payroll system and deduct PAYE and NI correctly than to incorrectly treat your helper as self employed.

 

[Dave B]

If you use an existing window cleaner registered with hmrc for odd days here and there then that is subcontracting and he will provide his own pli and pay tax etc

I worked like that for 8 years in the past but worked for the guy 5 days a week

That is the way not to do it as he would have been stuffed more than me if he got caught

Not fun when someone in a suit approaches you and you need to decide if he's hmrc and needs a punch and run approach or someone who wants a windie lol

 

[Greener]

That's how I understand it @daveyboy, if he's a window cleaner and has his own bone-fide business/round, uses his own equipment and carries out work for you on a add hoc basis to which he then invoices you then he is classed as a subcontractor. However as I understand it you may be liable if he does not declare the tax and NI.

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[Greener]

I wonder how many business owners have a number of "lads" carrying out work for them and are under the impression that it's OK to just pay them some cash at the end of the week, leaving it entirely up to the "lads" to sort themselves out.

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[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I wonder how many business owners have a number of "lads" carrying out work for them and are under the impression that it's OK to just pay them some cash at the end of the week, leaving it entirely up to the "lads" to sort themselves out.
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Tonns. Literally. I am always bemused at how many people are willing to risk their business, bank account even homes to avoid 10 mins of paperwork per week.

The funniest thing is it doesn't cost you any more money anyhow.

If I have hired @daveyboy as a sub using all his own gear and insurance etc and he invoives me £100 per day and I pay him £100 per day well that is all well and legit.

Remember that if I put him on book as an employee and pay £100 daily well it cost me no more just means I pay him less in his hand. (Example purpose ony) his tax and NI and pension are 25% so he gets £75 and I pay the rest direct. It hasnt cost me a penny more.

Also bear in mind that regardless of whose tools / insurance etc HMRC can decide that if davey has worked 4 out of 5 days per week for me for the last 3 year with no end of agreement in sight then as I provide the bulk of the emoloyment he is actually an employee and I am liable for all back tax etc.

The difference to above is a fixed period contract. Last year Network Rail subbed us to clean New St Birmingham. We did 24 hours a day (shifts) for six weeks. We were still classed as subs as the contract had an expiration date.

Any how I have spoken to a couple of local lads and I am looking at the approach of leasing it out for a fair split.

 

[Spartan]

Any how I have spoken to a couple of local lads and I am looking at the approach of leasing it out for a fair split.

Glad to hear you've managed to find a solution - good luck with the venture[emoji106]

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