Water fed poles in South Africa

[pro cleaning]

Good day to you all, I am from Sunny South Africa and looking to go from the old fashion way of cleaning windows to A water fed pole system.

There is not a lot of info available on this here and the filter shops tend to want to sell you a filtration system that can filter a hotel with of water, I am in Pretoria and the water from the tap runs between 180ppm to 240ppm, the info that i have seen on the net the guys are using all kinds of filter systems, 

What type of filters will work best and what needs to be removed from the water to get the desired ppm of 10 or less?

there is a company that build these systems but they are so expensive that it is not even worth looking at from a business prospective. 

Seen that some guys use a 8L resin vessel only and some guys has a system that looks like a lab?

 

[Dave B]

Welcome

Best person to ask is @spruce and he is a fellow South african

 

[pro cleaning]

Thanks Dave will do so, 

Thanks,

 

[spruce]

Rand to pound exchange rate has improved a little to R16.70 to £1. Last time I checked a long time back it was R22.00 to £1.00.

So with shipping costs, import duty, sales tax etc your cost of goods is going to be expensive.

Many years ago there was a SA guy working in Randburg in the vicinity of Ferriera's Hardware shop in Honeydew. He asked questions and then we never heard from him again. (This was on another forum.)

He said he was cleaning windows of homes in golf club estates.

I'm guessing that the business would be more commercial in shopping malls such as Menlyn or Atterbury Value Mart which didn't exist when we lived in Garsfontein. Pick and Pay was in the middle of nowhere in 1984/5.

I had a feeling that Gardiners did supply equipment into South Africa but its not included on their International maps as I've just looked.

I see there is a company called Window Gleam solutions with a 011 area code telephone number, but they don't show prices on their website.

What type of work do you envisage doing and are you going to be a one man band or will you have semi skilled labourers working with you?

What sort of system really depends on your requirements.

IMHO 180 to 240ppm is well in the reverse osmosis territory. The size and cost of the r/o will depend on how much water you will use per day.

Just using di with resin to purify the water is going to cost an arm and a leg in resin costs.

The other issue is equipment security. We mainly use vans in the UK, bakkies are few are far between. The problem with bakkies is that equipment left on them is an easy target for theft.

 

[pro cleaning]

Hi Spruce there is them and also pureglaze but they want to sell you a complete kit and to be honest  i do think they are pulling a fast one the systems is very expensive and i do believe i can build the system myself if i can get the correct info.  i called i guy to day that wants R30 000 for his equipment and all it was is a 11 L resin vessel and 2 poles and apparently a inactive web page and no contracts, 

I went to the filter shop in centurion yesterday but got the idea that if you start asking questions of buying loose filters and sort of going of the pre assembled units they have they are not interested in speaking to you. 

The Municipality said that the water in Pretoria is between 100 and 120ppm best i have seen has been 195 ppm, 

I have seen guys running 2 20" blue tube filters with resin filters and that is it, no pumps no wast water and things like that, 

So know i am looking to see that is the best options to filter the water to clean windows with, i don't want to drink the water just use it to clean with,

I have been looking at using 3 20" filter housings one with a 2 micron sediment filter a carbon block and a resin wilter on the way out, but the guys at the filter shop said it will not work, but they cant tell me way,  just that it will not work.

i have semi skilled workers as well, 

Looking at some of the info on the net it looks like in some countries the guys coming to clean the windows has to bring the water as well, here we can still plug in to the tap at the clients property and use it to clean. 

 

[spruce]

I just found Pureglaze as you replied. They appear to do streamline products.

Basically, with waterfed pole r/o systems we would use 2 prefilters, either 10" or 20", the first would be a sediment 5 micron filter and the second a carbon block which removes chlorine from the water. The reason for this is that chlorine eats away at the r/o membrane material.

So now the r/o membrane size would depend on how much water you need to have each day.

After the membrane housing you would then have a di vessel full of resin that will polish the water off. A reverse osmosis membrane will at best remove 97 to 98% of the dissolved solids (minerals) in the water. The remaining 2 or 3% will be removed by the resin.

We process water and sent it to a 1000 liter IBC tank and transfer it to a tank on the van each day.

We initially started off with a Ro-Man type small reverse osmosis system. It was rated at 275GPD (US gallon = 4 liters; a day = 24 hours and liters are at optimal pressure and water temperature. Under normal tap water pressure and temperature in the Uk divide that by 2 and 3 in winter.) That was upgraded to a 450GPD which supplied 2 cleaners with a van each rationing water toward the end of the week.

We upgraded that to a 4040 with 20" prefilters and a 7 liters di vessel and we now have plenty of water.

Have a look on www.daqua.co.uk as you will see a itemised components listed.

 

[pro cleaning]

What is a full Di system? it seems that the knowledge about this is very limited in SA,  

 

[spruce]

What is a full Di system? it seems that the knowledge about this is very limited in SA,  

Its a di vessel full of resin.

http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/de-ionisation/7-litre-resin-bead-pressure-vessel-canister-1808.html

resin

http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/de-ionisation/tulsion-mb115-virgin-polymer-mixed-bed-resin-beads-25l.html

If you have a close look at this PureFreedom complete van mounted system you will begin to see everything you will need to filter water and store it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/650L-FULLY-FITTED-WATER-FED-POLE-WINDOW-CLEANING-SYSTEM/250667389976?_trksid=p2481888.c100651.m4497&_trkparms=aid%3D777001%26algo%3DDISCO.FEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160801204525%26meid%3D23614890dfb543c9a142b60291e0619a%26pid%3D100651%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trkparms=pageci%3Aef2629f2-40c5-11e7-9ff4-74dbd1809d16%7Cparentrq%3A3c4f598215c0aa493155651dfffab9ef%7Ciid%3A2

 

[spruce]

Here are two photos of my 4040 mounted on the wall of my garage. I couldn't take a photo in front of it as my Venter Trailer is in the way.

Right hand bottom corner. Water in with solenoid valve. Hose to first filter = sediment filter, second = carbon block. Then to r/o inlet at the bottom. Waste outlet at the top with the red handled gate valve and the other outlet with the yellow hose is pure. Waste goes to the drain outside and pure goes to the blue di vessel. After di it goes to my IBC storage tank which isn't shown but is behind me in front of my GTE Venter trailer.

I have a tube heater inside at the bottom on a Froststat to keep the inside of the cabinet at 8 degrees. The cabinet has a removable cover that seals closed.

Our tap water pressure is 50 psi and our tap water tds is between 99 and 125. R/o membrane is 4040 hf5 with no booster pump.

Waste to pure ratio = 1 to 1 and so r/o produces 2 lpm of pure and at the same time sends 2 liters of waste per minute to the drain.

 

[Duncs]

hi spruce what pure /to waste are you getting with you RO

im getting 60/40 waste to pure 

its a purefreedom system,its taking roughly 4hrs to get 100l of pure

whats the best RO youcan get 

my water is 160 and Im using a boaster pump

 

[Dave B]

hi spruce what pure /to waste are you getting with you RO

im getting 60/40 waste to pure 

its a purefreedom system,its taking roughly 4hrs to get 100l of pure

whats the best RO youcan get 

my water is 160 and Im using a boaster pump

That is slow mate

What size ro?

My 450gpd is slow but i can fill 2x200l water butts while i am out at work

 

[spruce]

hi spruce what pure /to waste are you getting with you RO

im getting 60/40 waste to pure 

its a purefreedom system,its taking roughly 4hrs to get 100l of pure

whats the best RO youcan get 

my water is 160 and Im using a boaster pump

I can adjust it. The red handled gate valve on top of the r/o is the 'line' out to waste.

I drilled a 1mm hole through the 'paddle' of the gate valve to ensure that the gate valve was never closed. I was concerned in case my son or son in law, both helping themselves to water in those days, would switch it off by mistake. I can close the valve off a little more and get 60% pure to 40% waste if I want to.I have an inline tds meter so I can tweak the valve to where the r/o is performing at it best. In my case its 50/50.

@doug atkinsonrecently advised someone to remove the PF gate valve (they also drill a hole through the paddle) and replace it with one that doesn't have a hole drilled in it as it will give you more control.

But an r/o will only produce what the membranes are capable of producing. A single 50GPD will hardly produce any water at all not matter how perfect the conditions are.

We found we could manage with a 450GPD with 2 cleaners, but only just. Not having enough water is fatal for business growth. That 450GPD ran virtually non stop. It took about 28 hours to fill the IBC tank. I would fill my van tank of 650 liters on Saturday and son's 500 liter tank in his van on Sunday. The IBC tank would be full on Monday afternoon when I would refill my vans tank. That r/o then worked constantly until the following Monday when the weather was good.

That r/o is nearly 5 years old now. I should have bought it 12 years ago when we started wfp cleaning rather than mess on with small r/os.

 

[Duncs]

• sorry its 1000l four hours
  

if I could get 50/50 that would be great 

buzzing at moment just got my water,and pump coming on auto then switching off when my 1000l tank is full

saves so much time