Water genie van systems??

[Potta81]

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the water genie van mount systems from the cleaning hub? I’m looking to switch to wfp & there systems seem reasonably priced (about my £ limit tbh at £2165) I was looking at the 650l professional gold package. Any help/advice appreciated guys ?? https://www.the-cleaning-hub.co.uk/product/water-genie-professional-650l-gold-package-ro-system-copy/

 

[Iron Giant]

I don't know anything about there systems but what you need to consider if you haven't already does your van have a big enough payload as you will need close to 1,000kg payload for a system of this size as the tank etc will weigh around 100kg and by the time you put reels and other equipment on your van plus fuel and yourself then you are getting  close to 1,000kg  

I am surprised that they say free fitting which it won't be as fitting can be around £500, just wondering if https://www.thecleaningwarehouse.co.uk/premium-window-cleaning-systems-544-c.asp are going to be only selling their new crash tested systems moving forward ** Edited**

 

[Potta81]

I don't know anything about there systems but what you need to consider if you haven't already does your van have a big enough payload as you will need close to 1,000kg payload for a system of this size as the tank etc will weigh around 100kg and by the time you put reels and other equipment on your van plus fuel and yourself then you are getting  close to 1,000kg  

I haven’t got a van yet, I was just thinking about getting a ford transit swb tbh, I think the payload on them is around 990 but I do see your point, maybe a 500l would be safer.

 

[Iron Giant]

I haven’t got a van yet, I was just thinking about getting a ford transit swb tbh, I think the payload on them is around 990 but I do see your point, maybe a 500l would be safer.

If there is just and only ever going to be yourself a 500ltr tank will be more than sufficient I manage using a 350ltr every day but a 500ltr maybe better as you will use a lot more water on first cleans and in the early stages of going wfp, but you don't always have to fill the tank fully unless needed. 

 

[CHWS]

It would make things a lot easier if companies stated the full weight of their products at full capacity because it’s what most of us are working with regarding what weight to carry 

 

[spruce]

I haven’t got a van yet, I was just thinking about getting a ford transit swb tbh, I think the payload on them is around 990 but I do see your point, maybe a 500l would be safer.

The smallest older Transit swb you would consider is a T280 with a low roof. Transit also came in a T260 variant which is not even really suitable for a 500 liter tank.

If you go for a medium or a high roof the extra body weight further reduces payload. Payload includes your weight, passenger/s weight and the weight of fuel in your fuel tank. Roofracks and towbars also reduce payload.

 

[spruce]

It would make things a lot easier if companies stated the full weight of their products at full capacity because it’s what most of us are working with regarding what weight to carry 

They do. GVW is the maximum weight that vehicle can weigh fully laden. A Transit T280 is 2800kgs. A Transit T2600 is 2600kgs. The vehicles manufacturing plate carries that info. The first thing an MOT inspector does is check this vin plate of the van he is going to test. Class 4 MOT test is 3000kgs and class 7 is 3000 to 3500kgs. If he is certified to test class 4 and not 7, a class 7 van has to go elsewhere.

 

[Cghwindowcleaning]

Grippa Tank have a payload checker put your van details in and the system you want and it will tell you if your van is legal.

 

[Potta81]

The smallest older Transit swb you would consider is a T280 with a low roof. Transit also came in a T260 variant which is not even really suitable for a 500 liter tank.

If you go for a medium or a high roof the extra body weight further reduces payload. Payload includes your weight, passenger/s weight and the weight of fuel in your fuel tank. Roofracks and towbars also reduce payload.

The 280 & the 260 have the same payload, but if I did get one I’d want the 280 with the higher ps. 

 

[spruce]

The 280 & the 260 have the same payload, but if I did get one I’d want the 280 with the higher ps. 

Sorry, but they don't. I used to sell them. A T260 has a payload of 998kgs where the T280 has a payload of 1188kgs. That's comparing vans with the same 2.0 Tdci engine.

 

[Potta81]

Sorry, but they don't. I used to sell them. A T260 has a payload of 998kgs where the T280 has a payload of 1188kgs. That's comparing vans with the same 2.0 Tdci engine.

Oh right, I read on a ford forum that they were the same. Well either way a 500l system should be fine.

 

[spruce]

Oh right, I read on a ford forum that they were the same. Well either way a 500l system should be fine.

Fitting a 500 liter tank inside a T260 is something I would be hesitant to do tbh.

Here's my reasoning;

I would always choose an upright tank as its footprint is smaller. The tank couldn't be fitted across the front directly behind the drivers seats as you would be likely to overload the front axle with 2 operators inside and a full tank of diesel. (I appreciate that Ford do place their fuel tank slightly further back between the chassis rails than other manufacturers do. You might be a single operator but there could be times when you carry a passenger.)

I believe (without knowing all the axle weight loads) that the tank would have to be positioned a little further back toward the rear axle to prevent front axle overloading. Add a full tank of diesel (80kgs) yourself (100kgs - guess) a roofrack with ladders (50kgs), 500liters of water (500kgs), a tank and tank frame (100kgs), a leisure battery (25kgs) and a hose reel (15 kgs full of water). Add another passenger at 100kgs and extra kit ( a step ladder) would be just a little too close for comfort for me.

In my own experience I originally purchased a Citroen Relay 1.9 diesel swb 12 years ago. I fitted a 650 liter upright tank across the front bulkhead. The front axle was well overloaded with me inside and a full tank of diesel. I had to remove the tank and fit it length ways, which was/is the way they do it at Purefreedom for example. In those days I knew there was a payload distribution formula but it was a closely guarded secret. Its available to all and sundry now.

The new van which I'm playing around with is a Boxer SWB 333. I still can't put the 650l tank across the bulkhead as it oveloads the front axle. The van's payload is 1430kgs. But I can put that tank directly above the rear axle as I can load that axle with 900kgs.

 

[Potta81]

Fitting a 500 liter tank inside a T260 is something I would be hesitant to do tbh.

Here's my reasoning;

I would always choose an upright tank as its footprint is smaller. The tank couldn't be fitted across the front directly behind the drivers seats as you would be likely to overload the front axle with 2 operators inside and a full tank of diesel. (I appreciate that Ford do place their fuel tank slightly further back between the chassis rails than other manufacturers do. You might be a single operator but there could be times when you carry a passenger.)

I believe (without knowing all the axle weight loads) that the tank would have to be positioned a little further back toward the rear axle to prevent front axle overloading. Add a full tank of diesel (80kgs) yourself (100kgs - guess) a roofrack with ladders (50kgs), 500liters of water (500kgs), a tank and tank frame (100kgs), a leisure battery (25kgs) and a hose reel (15 kgs full of water). Add another passenger at 100kgs and extra kit ( a step ladder) would be just a little too close for comfort for me.

In my own experience I originally purchased a Citroen Relay 1.9 diesel swb 12 years ago. I fitted a 650 liter upright tank across the front bulkhead. The front axle was well overloaded with me inside and a full tank of diesel. I had to remove the tank and fit it length ways, which was/is the way they do it at Purefreedom for example. In those days I knew there was a payload distribution formula but it was a closely guarded secret. Its available to all and sundry now.

The new van which I'm playing around with is a Boxer SWB 333. I still can't put the 650l tank across the bulkhead as it oveloads the front axle. The van's payload is 1430kgs. But I can put that tank directly above the rear axle as I can load that axle with 900kgs.

Thanks for this info, looks like I have even more thinking to do ??‍

 

[Part Timer]

I had to remove the tank and fit it length ways, which was/is the way they do it at Purefreedom for example.

My 650l tank fitted by Purefreedom  in a 2900 LWB Vivaro, is across the bulkhead, about 12" from it

 

[Potta81]

Fitting a 500 liter tank inside a T260 is something I would be hesitant to do tbh.

Here's my reasoning;

I would always choose an upright tank as its footprint is smaller. The tank couldn't be fitted across the front directly behind the drivers seats as you would be likely to overload the front axle with 2 operators inside and a full tank of diesel. (I appreciate that Ford do place their fuel tank slightly further back between the chassis rails than other manufacturers do. You might be a single operator but there could be times when you carry a passenger.)

I believe (without knowing all the axle weight loads) that the tank would have to be positioned a little further back toward the rear axle to prevent front axle overloading. Add a full tank of diesel (80kgs) yourself (100kgs - guess) a roofrack with ladders (50kgs), 500liters of water (500kgs), a tank and tank frame (100kgs), a leisure battery (25kgs) and a hose reel (15 kgs full of water). Add another passenger at 100kgs and extra kit ( a step ladder) would be just a little too close for comfort for me.

In my own experience I originally purchased a Citroen Relay 1.9 diesel swb 12 years ago. I fitted a 650 liter upright tank across the front bulkhead. The front axle was well overloaded with me inside and a full tank of diesel. I had to remove the tank and fit it length ways, which was/is the way they do it at Purefreedom for example. In those days I knew there was a payload distribution formula but it was a closely guarded secret. Its available to all and sundry now.

The new van which I'm playing around with is a Boxer SWB 333. I still can't put the 650l tank across the bulkhead as it oveloads the front axle. The van's payload is 1430kgs. But I can put that tank directly above the rear axle as I can load that axle with 900kgs.

So even if I got the t280 am I right in thinking I’d be better having it fitted nearer the rear axle?? 

 

[spruce]

My 650l tank fitted by Purefreedom  in a 2900 LWB Vivaro, is across the bulkhead, about 12" from it

On your van Purefreedom do fit the tank across the van behind the bulkhead. If you open a side door you will see the centre of the tank is roughly half way between the front and rear axle so the weight is distributed more evenly.

My Citroen Relay is different. A 650 liter tank across the front bulkhead sits very close to the front axle - hence the overloading issue,

So even if I got the t280 am I right in thinking I’d be better having it fitted nearer the rear axle?? 

This is why it is important to do your homework before hand. A fellow windie purchased a 2010 Citroen Relay 300 which has a payload of 1150 kgs. He transferred his P/F 650 liter tank from his Transit van to this one and placed it width ways cross the front bulkhead. I've told him his front axle is very overloaded, but he hasn't understood that this is the reason why he has had an expensive front suspension repair and also a failed power steering. He has also replaced front tyres due to abnormal wear.

He has been told, its now his problem.

 

[Potta81]

On your van Purefreedom do fit the tank across the van behind the bulkhead. If you open a side door you will see the centre of the tank is roughly half way between the front and rear axle so the weight is distributed more evenly.

My Citroen Relay is different. A 650 liter tank across the front bulkhead sits very close to the front axle - hence the overloading issue,

This is why it is important to do your homework before hand. A fellow windie purchased a 2010 Citroen Relay 300 which has a payload of 1150 kgs. He transferred his P/F 650 liter tank from his Transit van to this one and placed it width ways cross the front bulkhead. I've told him his front axle is very overloaded, but he hasn't understood that this is the reason why he has had an expensive front suspension repair and also a failed power steering. He has also replaced front tyres due to abnormal wear.

He has been told, its now his problem.

Ok cheers m8 ??

 

[Potta81]

But going back to my original question ?... anyone have any opinions or knowledge of the water genie systems???

 

[CHWS]

They do. GVW is the maximum weight that vehicle can weigh fully laden. A Transit T280 is 2800kgs. A Transit T2600 is 2600kgs. The vehicles manufacturing plate carries that info. The first thing an MOT inspector does is check this vin plate of the van he is going to test. Class 4 MOT test is 3000kgs and class 7 is 3000 to 3500kgs. If he is certified to test class 4 and not 7, a class 7 van has to go elsewhere.

I mean the systems that we buy ?