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Where to fix 400 litre upright tank in Peugeot Partner

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Dabber

Dabber

Well-known member
Messages
256
Location
Aylesbury
Hi

just looking at buying a van set up.I was looking at a 400 litre upright tank from Pure Freedom with a tank frame.

Couple of questions, Is an upright tank the best option ? And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors and is it best to have the tank running front to back or size to side?

hope that makes sense.

i have a Peugeot Partner van with a 850kg payload.

im going for DIY install as I want to be able to deal with any issues that arise.

Thanks

Dabber

 
Dabber said:
Hi

just looking at buying a van set up.I was looking at a 400 litre upright tank from Pure Freedom with a tank frame.

Couple of questions, Is an upright tank the best option ? And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors and is it best to have the tank running front to back or size to side?

hope that makes sense.

i have a Peugeot Partner van with a 850kg payload.

im going for DIY install as I want to be able to deal with any issues that arise.

Thanks

Dabber
Click to expand...
Is an upright tank the best option ? IMHO yes. The footprint on an upright tank is smaller. This reduces issue with drawing in air when a flat tank gets low on water.

And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors. The load distribution formula will help you to ensure that where you fit the tank doesn't overload either of the axles. Usually the front axle is the most vunurable to overloading with a full tank of water. There will be a plate on the van somewhere, most in the engine bay, that will give you the max axle weights. You will have to scratch around for the unloaded axle weights. Remember the axle weights include you, a passenger, full tank of diesel and all your equipment including tank, water, frame, hose reel etc.

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/topic/15870-tank-position/

Best place is against the bulkhead as that gives you more space at the back. If you run the tank length ways you will have space down the sides to store step ladders etc. You will have a 'dead space' behind the driver's seat if you have a full bulkhead.

You will have to work out how you secure the tank to the floor. I don't know that van but the older Berlingo/Partner was also a car derived van. The cargo floor is extended over the people carrier rear footwells. There could be a space behind the rear seat support frame of the floor above the footwells. There should be small access holes so with planning you could use that section with bolts and spreader plates to secure the front of the tank.

A 400 liter upright tank is quite narrow, so when mounting it width ways you might run into difficulties with the rear securing bolts. It might  mean dropping the diesel tank down to gain access to fitting spreader plates. When we fitted a 500 liter tank to son's 800 LX Berlingo those bolts came through the floor just behind the diesel tank so we didn't need to drop the tank.

You have to draw the frame out on the floor and then work out from underneath how to best position that tank. If there has been a ply floor screwed down, the you will be able to see where those holes line up in relation to where you want to drill holes for your securing bolts.

With any car derived van I would remove the plylined floor and fiberglass the floor creating a tub. On sons van the only way out for spilt water is through the back doors. I also created a lip on the floor of the side loading door to stop any water leaking into the cabin from that point. This will ensure any spillages don't find their way into the rear passenger footwells and soak the carpeting. There is nothing worse that a wet stinking van inside.

.

 
I was looking at a 400 litre upright tank from Pure Freedom with a tank frame.
If you are near to them could you not get them to install the frame?
Couple of questions, Is an upright tank the best option ?
Doesn’t make all that much difference although a flat tank are more susceptible to air locks.
And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors and is it best to have the tank running front to back or size to side?
Most put them against the bulkhead so it utilises the space better (across the full width)
i have a Peugeot Partner van with a 850kg payload.
im going for DIY install as I want to be able to deal with any issues that arise.
For the sake of £50 I would take it to the garage who will install it in the optimum place with the appropriate mounting hardware.



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spruce said:
 
 
 
 
Is an upright tank the best option ? IMHO yes. The footprint on an upright tank is smaller. This reduces issue with drawing in air when a flat tank gets low on water.
 
And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors. The load distribution formula will help you to ensure that where you fit the tank doesn't overload either of the axles. Usually the front axle is the most vunurable to overloading with a full tank of water. There will be a plate on the van somewhere, most in the engine bay, that will give you the max axle weights. You will have to scratch around for the unloaded axle weights. Remember the axle weights include you, a passenger, full tank of diesel and all your equipment including tank, water, frame, hose reel etc.
 
https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/topic/15870-tank-position/
 
Best place is against the bulkhead as that gives you more space at the back. If you run the tank length ways you will have space down the sides to store step ladders etc. You will have a 'dead space' behind the driver's seat if you have a full bulkhead.
 
You will have to work out how you secure the tank to the floor. I don't know that van but the older Berlingo/Partner was also a car derived van. The cargo floor is extended over the people carrier rear footwells. There could be a space behind the rear seat support frame of the floor above the footwells. There should be small access holes so with planning you could use that section with bolts and spreader plates to secure the front of the tank.
A 400 liter upright tank is quite narrow, so when mounting it width ways you might run into difficulties with the rear securing bolts. It might  mean dropping the diesel tank down to gain access to fitting spreader plates. When we fitted a 500 liter tank to son's 800 LX Berlingo those bolts came through the floor just behind the diesel tank so we didn't need to drop the tank.
 
You have to draw the frame out on the floor and then work out from underneath how to best position that tank. If there has been a ply floor screwed down, the you will be able to see where those holes line up in relation to where you want to drill holes for your securing bolts.
 
With any car derived van I would remove the plylined floor and fiberglass the floor creating a tub. On sons van the only way out for spilt water is through the back doors. I also created a lip on the floor of the side loading door to stop any water leaking into the cabin from that point. This will ensure any spillages don't find their way into the rear passenger footwells and soak the carpeting. There is nothing worse that a wet stinking van inside.
 
.
 
Click to expand...
Beat me to it Spruce


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 
AGlassAct said:
I was looking at a 400 litre upright tank from Pure Freedom with a tank frame.
If you are near to them could you not get them to install the frame?
Couple of questions, Is an upright tank the best option ?
Doesn’t make all that much difference although a flat tank are more susceptible to air locks.
And where in the van is the best place to fix the frame ,front by bulkhead,middle or towards the rear doors and is it best to have the tank running front to back or size to side?
Most put them against the bulkhead so it utilises the space better (across the full width)
i have a Peugeot Partner van with a 850kg payload.
im going for DIY install as I want to be able to deal with any issues that arise.
For the sake of £50 I would take it to the garage who will install it in the optimum place with the appropriate mounting hardware.



Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
Click to expand...


I certainly would agree to try to find someone to fit it who knows what they are doing.

I'm in the process of moving my 650l system into a 62 plate Peugeot Boxer 333 van. I'm busy welding up a new tank frame. It took me all day yesterday to drill 3 holes through the tank frame and then through the chassis rails. This van is full of box sections underneath and fitting the tank width ways and toward the back of the van has been a challenge, especially for a first time in that configuration. My current Citroen Relay has the 650 liter tank length ways which is much easier to fit, but the problem is a large dead space behind the driver's seat. I have fitted a full steel bulkhead.

The most ideal space is width ways behind the bulkhead, but with a full tank of water, full tank of fuel and 2 of us, the front axle is well overloaded.

 
Thanks everyone for taking time to reply.

i might not have made it clear but I don’t intend to fit the tank frame  myself.Will take it to a local garage for them to fit.

Just wanted some help with positioning etc. so as I sound as if I’ve got a bit of an idea of what needs doing?.

Been using backpack and containers for just over a year so just want to make sure I get the move to a van set up as right as possible.

cheers

Dabber

 
Part Timer said:
On a side note @sprucewhy the boxer, big old beast of a van when the Vivaro etc will legally carry the 650l tank 
Click to expand...


Its probably more the Devil I know rather than the Devil I don't.

I guess it dates back to my early motor trade days when the Vivaro was first launched. The motor trade grape vine labeled them negatively. They got put into the same catagory as the early M/B Vito. If we traded in either of these vans we would either have to send them to auction and get zip for them or sell them ourselves retail.

My current 04 plate hdi Relay has been a good van generally these past 10 years. But despite having 70k on the clock, the sills are starting to look a little tatty with rust and the paint is flaking around the doors. A few years back the roof, bonnet and front wings/fenders (whatever they are called in the UK) were resprayed because of flaking paint. On hindsight, I should have had them respray the whole van.

I think the main reason for going bigger was head room in the back of the van. As I've said before I have prostate cancer which has left me medically incontinent. I have to dive into the back of the van to have a pee numerous times a day. When the first warning strikes I haven't time to remove kit from the back of a tiny van, get down on my knees, position myself and pee. My son says I was foolish to buy such a big van - he says a small Berlingo would have been fine, but he doesn't understand what's its like to have limited bladder control. He suggested having a curtain across the back so I could open the back doors, duck behind the curtain and pee that way. Any passerby would just see the bottom of my legs and shoes. ?

I don't think there is much difference between the 2 models length wise but the Vivaros are slightly narrower which makes for a more 'cramped' cabin. I would have been comfortable with a long wheel base Boxer/Relay/Ducato. Then I could have had one of those Network Rail crew van concepts with a front fitted kitchen. ? We could also have had room for the gutter vac and a generator as well onboard.

I don't mind big. I feel more comfortable driving a big van. I learnt to drive in a 1962 American Chevrolet Biscayne in Africa. I have no idea how my daughter drives a Nissan Pixo.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dabber said:
Thanks everyone for taking time to reply.

i might not have made it clear but I don’t intend to fit the tank frame  myself.Will take it to a local garage for them to fit.

Just wanted some help with positioning etc. so as I sound as if I’ve got a bit of an idea of what needs doing?.

Been using backpack and containers for just over a year so just want to make sure I get the move to a van set up as right as possible.

cheers

Dabber
Click to expand...


Your original post said " im going for DIY install as I want to be able to deal with any issues that arise." So I understood that that included fitting the tank.

 
Iron Giant said:
Just got me curious on axle weights and as I am totally clueless about motors on my Vauxhall combo it says Front Axle Plated 1090kg in the online brochure for weights and towing data. ? 
Click to expand...


The Peugeot Boxer I have is model 333 which has a payload of 1455 kgs. Its in the 3300kg weight catagory.

On the plate inside the engine bay it gives a maximum front axle weight of 1750kgs and max weight on the rear axle of 1900kgs. I found the kerb weights of the front and rear axles on the internet. They are 1195kgs for the front and 650kgs for the rear axles with no fuel and driver etc.

So I have 555kgs I can put on the front axle and 1250kgs I can put on the rear axle. This doesn't mean I can carry 1805kgs with both axles fully loaded as my payload is 1455kgs. If I did that then my overall gross vehicle weight would be over the 3300kgs. (I wouldn't be done for front or rear axle overloading but would be done for overloading my vehicle. So when the van is weighed they look at 3 factors, the load on the front axle, the load on the rear axle and the overall load the vehicle is carrying.)

So using that weight distribution formula and assuming that my weight, son's weight, and the fuel tank of diesel under our seats is all on the front axle, I can't postion a 650 liter tank across the width of the van just behind the drivers seats and not overload the front axle when the tanks are full. (The driving position and location of the diesel tanks are slightly behind the front axle which means that some of this weight is on the back axle, but its not significant. It make about 30 kgs difference which doesn't change the overall result by much.) So according to the formula my front axle would be overloaded by around 240kgs with a full 650 liter tank of water. The back axle would have very little extra weight on it.

In my case I could fit the tank directly above the rear axle and been a long way off the maximum load on the axle.

Originally I brought a 51 plate Citroen Relay 1.9d and positioned the tank across the bulkhead. With the tank full, I could hardly turn the steering wheel. Even with half a brain I knew the axle was overloaded. So I removed the tank and fitted it length ways, thus correcting the problem.

Now a fellow windie posted on here a few years ago that he sold his Transit and brought a 10 plate Citroen Relay. He reported how difficult it was to swap his Purefrredom tank into his new van from his Transit. He positioned his tank across the front bulkhead. I saw the inside of his van a few months ago and told him he had positioned his tank in the wrong place. He shrugged it off as of no issue. His van is 3000kg. It has slightly smaller tyres so I have to presume his front axle weights are lower than mine. He is in the same situation as I was with my first 1.9d. But that's up to him. He has been advised of the situation.

For me the most ideal place to fit the tank would have been over the back axle leaving just enough room for the hose reels and back pack between the tank and the rear doors. That would then have given me a lot more usable space in front of the tank accessable from the side door. In the end I have postioned it slight further forward to give me room for my heater in the winter.  

 
Dabber said:
Sorry if that was misleading 

cheers

Dabber
Click to expand...


No problem. But now you know what to look for. You might even find that fitting a 500 liter tank easier as I did in both son's first Peugeot Partner, his current Berlingo and son in laws lwb Ford Transit connect. T220.

A fellow windie had 2 Vauxhall Combo vans (the old shape) about 14 years ago. He had a flat 400 liter tank in one and an upright in the other. He said he would never fit a flat tank again.

He also said that he found the 400 liter tank just a little bit too small for a full days work. That's why I fitted 500 liter tanks in the lad's vans. If was a good move as they both could polish off 500 liters a day even with a Varistream controller each and Aquadapters fitted to their poles for water management.

Son has his tank width ways and he has enough room behind the tank for a step ladder, his hose reel and his backpack and a 25 liter plastic container to fill his backpack. Spare clothes and odd and ends fit on top of the tank on a frame to hold them in place. His SLX 25 is on a bracket at the back and fits through a hole in his bulkhead into the drivers cabin.  

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
@spruce thanks for your reply and making my brain hurt ? as I have mine up against the bulkhead I assume without checking my front axle may be overloaded with a 350ltr tank, But I also assume as I think back that certain suppliers/fitters will be doing the same as I have seen VW caddys etc with a lower payload than mine of 750kg with a 350ltr tank fitted against the bulkhead along with bigger vans and bigger tanks all against the bulkhead. 

 
Iron Giant said:
@spruce thanks for your reply and making my brain hurt ? as I have mine up against the bulkhead I assume without checking my front axle may be overloaded with a 350ltr tank, But I also assume as I think back that certain suppliers/fitters will be doing the same as I have seen VW caddys etc with a lower payload than mine of 750kg with a 350ltr tank fitted against the bulkhead along with bigger vans and bigger tanks all against the bulkhead. 
Click to expand...


Even if this sounds like rocket science, you will know in your gut if the front axle is overloaded by your feel on the steering wheel.

Purefreedom have fitted a 650 liter tank across the bulkhead on 2 x 2900 swb Vivaros that are/were in our area. I presumed that was ok with weight distribution as they should know what they are doing.  If you have a look you through the side loading door you can see how far back the tank is from the front axle on that van. They do fit a 650 liter tank length ways on the SWB Relay/Boxer/Ducato, a fact I didn't know when I first fitted my 650 liter tank across the bulkhead of my first Relay.  When I look through the open side loading door on my Citroen Relay I can see how close that 650 liter tank would have been in relation to the front axle. (Thankfully it didn't take long to reposition the tank - a couple of hours at most.)

The one windie with the remaining Vivaro has since moved the tank to the middle of the van to give him room for a carpet cleaner behind the front bulkhead. His also has fitted a PF stacked hose reels to give him more floor space at the back.

Obviously each van is different as weight distribution on each axle is where the weight is in relation to those axles. 

Son's berlingo van is just legal with his tank brimmed, but the problem is if I climb into the passenger seat. Being a car derived van the tank is closer to the rear axle than the front, so that tends to be the saving grace with payload weight distribution. His whole van also sits very low with a full tank. Even although his payload is 800kgs the van looks like its carrying 5 tons. How he hasn't been pulled over and his weight checked is beyond me.

So if I go out with him in his van which is very rare these days, I either just 3/4 fill the tank or I could fill the tank fully and take my car and park it up somewhere convenient, collecting it at the end of the day.

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
spruce said:
Even if this sounds like rocket science, you will know in your gut if the front axle is overloaded by your feel on the steering wheel.

Purefreedom have fitted a 650 liter tank across the bulkhead on 2 x 2900 swb Vivaros that are/were in our area. I presumed that was ok with weight distribution as they should know what they are doing.  If you have a look you through the side loading door you can see how far back the tank is from the front axle on that van. They do fit a 650 liter tank length ways on the SWB Relay/Boxer/Ducato, a fact I didn't know when I first fitted my 650 liter tank across the bulkhead of my first Relay.  When I look through the open side loading door on my Citroen Relay I can see how close that 650 liter tank would have been in relation to the front axle. (Thankfully it didn't take long to reposition the tank - a couple of hours at most.)

The one windie with the remaining Vivaro has since moved the tank to the middle of the van to give him room for a carpet cleaner behind the front bulkhead. His also has fitted a PF stacked hose reels to give him more floor space at the back.

Obviously each van is different as weight distribution on each axle is where the weight is in relation to those axles. 

Son's berlingo van is just legal with his tank brimmed, but the problem is if I climb into the passenger seat. Being a car derived van the tank is closer to the rear axle than the front, so that tends to be the saving grace with payload weight distribution. His whole van also sits very low with a full tank. Even although his payload is 800kgs the van looks like its carrying 5 tons. How he hasn't been pulled over and his weight checked is beyond me.

So if I go out with him in his van which is very rare these days, I either just 3/4 fill the tank or I could fill the tank fully and take my car and park it up somewhere convenient, collecting it at the end of the day.

.
Click to expand...
My van handles really well when fully loaded, it's a standard panel van not the larger car derived model with  hidden rear footwells 

 
The 500 litre tank in my Partner is pretty much cube shaped up against the bulkhead, I have the Di vessels on the side loading door so I can access them with a couple of boxes on the tank for odds and sods for storage.
At the back I have the reel and controller (there's only me), a compromise I had to make was cut a hole for my pole holder through the centre of the cab for my SLX25 but I don't really notice it (unless I'm having a conversation with a passenger)! The actual van though really handles good and it corners quite well
I do sometimes wish I had something a bit bigger but the parking on my rounds are a pain so it's the best compromise I suppose.
On a sidenote. In a previous incarnation getting on for 30 years ago, I was a van driver and drove a Ford Cargo 7.5 ton curtainsider and was taught to always put the weight over the back axle it would carry 4 tons of spuds on 4 pallets comfortably.
If we ever put much weight against bulkhead and you had to stop in an emergency the back wheels had a nasty habit of locking up.
I think you get a bit of an idea in any vehicle, if it doesn't feel right driving it, then it probably isn't.

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dmw said:
The 500 litre tank in my Partner is pretty much cube shaped up against the bulkhead, I have the Di vessels on the side loading door so I can access them with a couple of boxes on the tank for odds and sods for storage.
At the back I have the reel and controller (there's only me), a compromise I had to make was cut a hole for my pole holder through the centre of the cab for my SLX25 but I don't really notice it (unless I'm having a conversation with a passenger)! The actual van though really handles good and it corners quite well
I do sometimes wish I had something a bit bigger but the parking on my rounds are a pain so it's the best compromise I suppose.
On a sidenote. In a previous incarnation getting on for 30 years ago, I was a van driver and drove a Ford Cargo 7.5 ton curtainsider and was taught to always put the weight over the back axle it would carry 4 tons of spuds on 4 pallets comfortably.
If we ever put much weight against bulkhead and you had to stop in an emergency the back wheels had a nasty habit of locking up.
I think you get a bit of an idea in any vehicle, if it doesn't feel right driving it, then it probably isn't.

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 
Click to expand...


Driving a 'lorry' helps a lot when it comes to loading and also driving. You become more aware of turning circles. Have you noticed how many swb to lwb have damaged nearside loading doors because the driver 'cut the corner'. I've towed caravans since I was 16 (we could get our driver's licence at 16 in the then Rhodesia) and you always had to drive past the corner before turning to get the caravan around. Its become second nature. The other interesting thing was how lite the front steering became when the caravan was hooked up. 

In the early days I worked for York Trailers HQ Northallerton. I had a Bedford 7.5 tonner which was fitted with a snapon type body with a translucent roof. The job was to drive from transport  company to transport company and sell trailer spares to the workshops on Teesside. That Bedford didn't have power steering and was on its maximum front axle weight. So I know all about axle weights. I developed my arm muscles in those days.

Payload is an interesting issue when it comes to 7.5 tonners. The scaffolding boys used the Mitsubishi Canter lwb chassis at one time because it gaves them the ideal body length for their scaffording poles and planks. But they couldn't carry their full payload as they overloaded the rear axle which they often did and got done for. The rear axle was and could still well be just slightly too far forward.

 
spruce said:
 
Driving a 'lorry' helps a lot when it comes to loading and also driving. You become more aware of turning circles. Have you noticed how many swb to lwb have damaged nearside loading doors because the driver 'cut the corner'. I've towed caravans since I was 16 (we could get our driver's licence at 16 in the then Rhodesia) and you always had to drive past the corner before turning to get the caravan around. Its become second nature. The other interesting thing was how lite the front steering became when the caravan was hooked up. 
 
In the early days I worked for York Trailers HQ Northallerton. I had a Bedford 7.5 tonner which was fitted with a snapon type body with a translucent roof. The job was to drive from transport  company to transport company and sell trailer spares to the workshops on Teesside. That Bedford didn't have power steering and was on its maximum front axle weight. So I know all about axle weights. I developed my arm muscles in those days.
 
Payload is an interesting issue when it comes to 7.5 tonners. The scaffolding boys used the Mitsubishi Canter lwb chassis at one time because it gaves them the ideal body length for their scaffording poles and planks. But they couldn't carry their full payload as they overloaded the rear axle which they often did and got done for. The rear axle was and could still well be just slightly too far forward.
Click to expand...
Yes I got a job driving for a fruit and veg company in Manchesterwhen I was 18 and they gave me the keys to a 7.5 ton Mercedes ( my freinds with their Fiesta's and Nova's were very jealous).
I felt thrown in at the deep end as i was expecting to start in the Transit. Back then you could drive these vehicles and tow caravans without having to take the extra tests they require now, I also towed the family caravan for 10 years or so.
Going back I also drove an AWD (the boss bought 4) in the last year I worked for them which as you probably know was a rebadged Bedford, these later one's had power steering (of sorts) but felt very cramped and dated compared with Mercedes 814 and the Cargo 811, but they had a very good engine (Perkins as I recall).
Any way perhaps every one who passed their test now should have a lesson driving these It gives you good spatial awareness, and you anticipate stopping distances and you have to rely on your mirrors rather than glancing through side and rear windows.
Now I look back I had 4 enjoyable years doing that.[emoji16][emoji16]

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dmw said:
Yes I got a job driving for a fruit and veg company in Manchesterwhen I was 18 and they gave me the keys to a 7.5 ton Mercedes ( my freinds with their Fiesta's and Nova's were very jealous).
I felt thrown in at the deep end as i was expecting to start in the Transit. Back then you could drive these vehicles and tow caravans without having to take the extra tests they require now, I also towed the family caravan for 10 years or so.
Going back I also drove an AWD (the boss bought 4) in the last year I worked for them which as you probably know was a rebadged Bedford, these later one's had power steering (of sorts) but felt very cramped and dated compared with Mercedes 814 and the Cargo 811, but they had a very good engine (Perkins as I recall).
Any way perhaps every one who passed their test now should have a lesson driving these It gives you good spatial awareness, and you anticipate stopping distances and you have to rely on your mirrors rather than glancing through side and rear windows.
Now I look back I had 4 enjoyable years doing that.
emoji16.png
emoji16.png


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Click to expand...
I passed my Class 2 hgv in a lorry that had a crash box. I think  @spruceis the only one else on here that has driven one  :1f603:

 

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