Who’s liable?

[BigFoot]

window cleaner I know just had a nasty fall off a roof thank goodness he is alive but he is very injured In hospital with a number of operations ahead of him. In a situation like this who’s insurance pays out if any? I don’t know the details but let assume he followed all health and safety regs would it be his or the homeowners insurance that is claimed against? or if he wasn’t following H&S guidelines how would that affect a claim.
for you lot that get up on rooftops think twice, it’s not for me!

 

[marlowswindows]

I'd sadly at a guess that your not insuranced to be on a roof without scaffolding being in place

 

[BigFoot]

I'd sadly at a guess that your not insuranced to be on a roof without scaffolding being in place

I was thinking that would more than likely be the case too.

 

[Pjj]

window cleaner I know just had a nasty fall off a roof thank goodness he is alive but he is very injured In hospital with a number of operations ahead of him. In a situation like this who’s insurance pays out if any? I don’t know the details but let assume he followed all health and safety regs would it be his or the homeowners insurance that is claimed against? or if he wasn’t following H&S guidelines how would that affect a claim.
for you lot that get up on rooftops think twice, it’s not for me!

Unfortunately if he was following all the regs he wouldn’t have fallen off the roof as he should have been using fall arrest and a harness and had someone with him to help in the event of an accident , ime not being critical or not caring but just stating the facts . If he has his own accident insurance then they may pay out depending on any investigation. Hope he makes a speedy recovery these things happen in an instant.

 

[BigFoot]

Unfortunately if he was following all the regs he wouldn’t have fallen off the roof as he should have been using fall arrest and a harness and had someone with him to help in the event of an accident , ime not being critical or in caring but just stating the facts . If he has his own accident insurance then they may pay out depending on any investigation. Hope he makes a speedy recovery these things happen in an instant.

From day one I’ve been a feet on the ground window cleaner, only use step ladder to open difficult gates. I don’t have the knowledge and so just won’t work at hight! regs Are there for a reason. One minute fit and able next minute months in hospital.

 

[Part Timer]

Legally speaking the homeowner has allowed him, or asked him, to work in an unsafe manner and is therefore liable. This actually applies to home owners, including Landlords, that allow any person working unsafely on their property.
Many years ago I rang the HSE if someone cleaning windows for residents on a very large housing association estate was allowed to do it unsafely. The HA had told me it had nothing to do with them. The HSE, whilst refusing to answer the question, said they would open an investigation into the HA if I reported it.

 

[ched999uk]

As far as I am aware to comply with H&S working on a flat roof requires a fall arrestor, harness and secured points to fit it too plus there must be some sort of check into the condition of the roof.
Unfortunately I don't think he can claim on anyone's insurance, maybe if he has his own accident insurance but due to not working within H&S I doubt they would pay out.

If he is ldt, I think legally, he has to report the accident to H&S if he will be off work more than 3 days as he is technically employed!!

I hope he recovers back to full health asap.

 

[Pjj]

Legally speaking the homeowner has allowed him, or asked him, to work in an unsafe manner and is therefore liable. This actually applies to home owners, including Landlords, that allow any person working unsafely on their property.
Many years ago I rang the HSE if someone cleaning windows for residents on a very large housing association estate was allowed to do it unsafely. The HA had told me it had nothing to do with them. The HSE, whilst refusing to answer the question, said they would open an investigation into the HA if I reported it.

The house owner may not understand the H&S implications of a job that’s why they have employed someone to do the job for them , if that person works in an unsafe manner the home owner cannot be held responsible, but if the home owner doesnt accept the H&S recommendation from the worker and he then does the job in an unsafe manner then the home owner could be held responsible on domestic houses it’s all a very grey area m much easier to prove liability on commercial work . We went out to a guy that fell 22 feet off a ladder painting a house , he suggested to the home owner it needed scaffolding but the home owner didn’t want to pay for it so the painter stupidly agreed to do it off a ladder , when the HSE investigated they said the painter was at fault for doing the job in an unsafe manner he should have refused to have done it ,they didn’t take any legal action against him as they felt he had learned his lesson and was self employed if they prosecuted him he would have lost his house , he broke his back in 3 places , had a fractured skull , broke both legs and a wrist surprisingly he made a full recovery and is still painting now but only off scaffolding.

 

[Part Timer]

window cleaner I know just had a nasty fall off a roof thank goodness he is alive but he is very injured In hospital with a number of operations ahead of him. In a situation like this who’s insurance pays out if any? I don’t know the details but let assume he followed all health and safety regs would it be his or the homeowners insurance that is claimed against? or if he wasn’t following H&S guidelines how would that affect a claim.
for you lot that get up on rooftops think twice, it’s not for me!

On another site it says he was pressure washing the roof, has broken both feet, chest plate and numerous ribs

 

[spruce]

I know my memory is failing me, but an act was past in 1954 ??? making the home owner responsible for safe working conditions of all employees on his property, even if the worker was being silly.

Now this doesn't mean that the regulation is applied as authorities are inclined to take the easiest way out as I found out.

Years back a chap came out of a pub, got into his pickup and hit the car next to him when reversing. The driver failed to stop even when I banged on his bonnet.

I left a note on the damaged vehicle with my address and pickups reg number.

I was contacted by the police a few days later asking me to forget the incident as it could be an easy insurance matter. No was my reply, what happens if it's a child he hit, your child? Are you sure you want the hassle of is taking this driver to court? Yes.

They did take the driver to court and he had previous convictions of drink driving. I had to attend his court case as a witness.

They passed sentence in the afternoon after I left the court in the morning.

 

[Yogi1872]

I'd say he's 100% to blame, people on here say often that they wouldn't let a customer dictate what tools they use for the job when they ask for trad. So it's not the customers fault that the guys not used the tools which would have prevented this type of thing.

 

[Yogi1872]

Legally speaking the homeowner has allowed him, or asked him, to work in an unsafe manner and is therefore liable. This actually applies to home owners, including Landlords, that allow any person working unsafely on their property.
Many years ago I rang the HSE if someone cleaning windows for residents on a very large housing association estate was allowed to do it unsafely. The HA had told me it had nothing to do with them. The HSE, whilst refusing to answer the question, said they would open an investigation into the HA if I reported it.

How would the homeowner know that when he hired someone he thought was reputable that they would work without taking saftey precautions that should be in place ?.

 

[Part Timer]

How would the homeowner know that when he hired someone he thought was reputable that they would work without taking saftey precautions that should be in place ?.

They are employing someone to do a job so they therefore have a duty of care. Ignorance is no plea in law so them stating we thought they would work safely doesn't really apply.
In this instance the bloke was walking on their roof pressure washing it, now even someone with little knowledge would realise that isn't a safe method of working.
The bloke was probably half the price of someone that would've done it safely, that on it's own should ring alarm bells.

 

[ched999uk]

They are employing someone to do a job so they therefore have a duty of care. Ignorance is no plea in law so them stating we thought they would work safely doesn't really apply.
In this instance the bloke was walking on their roof pressure washing it, now even someone with little knowledge would realise that isn't a safe method of working.
The bloke was probably half the price of someone that would've done it safely, that on it's own should ring alarm bells.

It's an interesting one as the home owner is contracting out the work not directly employing. A self employed person normally isn't actually covered by H&S legally. That said it's wise to follow their guidance.
As far as the home owner knowing if something is dangerous or not would be a fine line. They probably think climbing onto a flat rood to clean a window is safe, but if an employee where to have an accident then H&S would want to see risk assessments, fall arrestors, secure fixing points etc....

It's an interesting subject - and I think there are lots of iffs and buts. Overall always best to work as safely as possible and minimise risks.

 

[Part Timer]

It's an interesting one as the home owner is contracting out the work not directly employing. A self employed person normally isn't actually covered by H&S legally. That said it's wise to follow their guidance.
As far as the home owner knowing if something is dangerous or not would be a fine line. They probably think climbing onto a flat rood to clean a window is safe, but if an employee where to have an accident then H&S would want to see risk assessments, fall arrestors, secure fixing points etc....

It's an interesting subject - and I think there are lots of iffs and buts. Overall always best to work as safely as possible and minimise risks.

I asked a H&S consultant, who was employed in a recycling plant, very dangerous environment, to do their H&S.
At the time I asked him what would happen if someone was badly injured cleaning windows in an unsafe manner, off an unfooted ladder, etc. Could the window cleaner actually sue them because of him working unsafely. He replied legally yes but the compensation level would take into account that the home owner wouldn't know all the ins and outs regarding working safely.
Now if he is wrong then so am I but I'd prefer to take his word then that of other experts saying otherwise.

 

[Cghwindowcleaning]

it will all depend on what the HSE are like in that area some are on it others are useless.

A window cleaner here fell through a roof on an industrial unit cleaning gutters and had to be airlifted to hospital.Nothing ever came of it.

I also know of a window cleaner who was cleaning a hotel in Bath or Bristol that was walking round on the ledges high up.No accident occurred but a member of the public filmed it and HSE picked up on it the hotel got a massive fine but so did the self employed cleaner.

The bottom line is if you’re the boss or a sole trader the health and safety fall down to you as your the one responsible for the rams and the one that signs them off.

 

[spruce]

it will all depend on what the HSE are like in that area some are on it others are useless.

A window cleaner here fell through a roof on an industrial unit cleaning gutters and had to be airlifted to hospital.Nothing ever came of it.

I also know of a window cleaner who was cleaning a hotel in Bath or Bristol that was walking round on the ledges high up.No accident occurred but a member of the public filmed it and HSE picked up on it the hotel got a massive fine but so did the self employed cleaner.

The bottom line is if you’re the boss or a sole trader the health and safety fall down to you as your the one responsible for the rams and the one that signs them off.

I tried to cut my thumb off with an angle grinder and needed my tendons joined. I was asked at the hospital if it was an accident at home or job related. I asked why and the reply was that if it was work related they had to report it to h&s. If it was a DIY accident at home, then they didn't have to report it.
This was 20 years ago mind you.

 

[Part Timer]

I tried to cut my thumb off with an angle grinder and needed my tendons joined. I was asked at the hospital if it was an accident at home or job related. I asked why and the reply was that if it was work related they had to report it to h&s. If it was a DIY accident at home, then they didn't have to report it.
This was 20 years ago mind you.

Years ago I burnt my foot quite badly, as you would, when molten aluminium landed on it, a long story. I went to the doctors on the Monday, in the days when you could get appointments, and told him I'd done it making lead sinkers for sea fishing, something I've never done. Much to my surprise he said he did some sea fishing and asked where I fished. When I told him he said he regularly fished there and we must have just missed each other, couldn't get out of there quick enough

 

[spruce]

They are employing someone to do a job so they therefore have a duty of care. Ignorance is no plea in law so them stating we thought they would work safely doesn't really apply.
In this instance the bloke was walking on their roof pressure washing it, now even someone with little knowledge would realise that isn't a safe method of working.
The bloke was probably half the price of someone that would've done it safely, that on it's own should ring alarm bells.

"Duty of care" covers a large spectrum of events. It's also open to interpretation in each case.
Our nvq training course covered this in detail. A home owner can't use ignorance as a fob off. A home owner or tenant for that matter, is employing someone to provide a service they are paying for. They are responsible for his/her welfare and safety while on their property providing that service.

No what what, the act isn't being applied as intended. If it was then no one would allow a window cleaner or any other service trade to use ladders on their property.

 

[Yogi1872]

Have tried to find examples of soneone claiming the customer and won but csnt find any. Insuramce wise its saying its highly unlikely a court would rule against the home owner. Then one says if the home owner has been negligent which in turn caused the accident that would be a different scenario. Seems like the home owner would be okay in most cases.

I seen a guy at the shops last week limping, he does property maintenance, has a small window run too for when he's not busy. He fell off a roof in December he said, quite a bad one. He's just getting back to work thr now but only 3 days a week

 

[Pjj]

Years ago I burnt my foot quite badly, as you would, when molten aluminium landed on it, a long story. I went to the doctors on the Monday, in the days when you could get appointments, and told him I'd done it making lead sinkers for sea fishing, something I've never done. Much to my surprise he said he did some sea fishing and asked where I fished. When I told him he said he regularly fished there and we must have just missed each other, couldn't get out of there quick enough

Lol he’s not much of fisherman then using aluminium weights ????