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Oxidizeing upvc frames


Diamond geezer

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Diamond geezer

I have a custy with fairly old frames, Ive done them a couple of times now ,maybe three water fed,but one ore two of her frames milk up the water pretty badley,had to go over by hand to finish.I did though use my new Gardiners sill flocked with fan jets,i think that pulled of a lot more than my usual mono dual trim.My question is however will it eventually stop milking or just keep on giving up the powder untill theres no frame left?Cheers

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2 hours ago, Diamond geezer said:

I have a custy with fairly old frames, Ive done them a couple of times now ,maybe three water fed,but one ore two of her frames milk up the water pretty badley,had to go over by hand to finish.I did though use my new Gardiners sill flocked with fan jets,i think that pulled of a lot more than my usual mono dual trim.My question is however will it eventually stop milking or just keep on giving up the powder untill theres no frame left?Cheers

I've had the same problem, especially in my early days. Not so much lately, luckily enough. As I gained experience, I gained the knowledge and confidence to deal with them. What one time seemed a serious enough problem for me to lose sleep over, eventually became a minor thing.

What I suggest : Don't be afraid of it. Don't be gentle. Get stuck in. Give the milky frames a really good scrub or, if needed, several really good scrubs. Try to get the milkiness out of the frames. Wash the glass and rinse it down with a full width curtain of water. Do the same on all the windows on one side of the house.

Now : Start again at the first window. Wash the glass only. For the rinse, build a full width curtain of water a half inch to an inch below the top frame and bring it down quickly and at full glass width. Avoid the top frame. Repeat at every horizontal frame as you work your way down the window.Repeat the process on each of the windows. For instance : Top left window, next top window and so on. Then bottom left and along the lower windows.

It's a quick process. Perhaps a minute or even two or three on a first wash for an average window. Well less than a minute when it's been done a few times.

It should lessen over a short time, though you may still get a bit of milkiness for a while. No bother, keep at it with a good technique and it should get a lot better, and quicker.

Please let us know how you get on. 🙂

Edited by Davy G
Slight tweek, as I nearly always do. 🙂
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Diamond geezer

Thanks Davy G. I have actually used this method in the past to great effect i must have a short memory and lost a bit of patience as i do remember the frames getting better.I think todays job was so bad that it knocked my confidence ,Ill give it a proper go next clean,and a check probably,cause she,s on my heals.I explained what was happening to the custy,she didnt say but looked concerned,and i was abit that i was washing her frames away.

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7 minutes ago, Diamond geezer said:

Thanks Davy G. I have actually used this method in the past to great effect i must have a short memory and lost a bit of patience as i do remember the frames getting better.I think todays job was so bad that it knocked my confidence ,Ill give it a proper go next clean,and a check probably,cause she,s on my heals.I explained what was happening to the custy,she didnt say but looked concerned,and i was abit that i was washing her frames away.

Here's a thing to try. It was passed on to me by a friend in the trade when I asked his advice over the same problem when I started.

Identify a suspect window frame. Wet a finger tip with your tongue. Bring your finger firmly down the frame. If it leaves a white colouring on your finger that will confirm your suspicions (oxidisation) . Try the same test on a different window on the other side of the house and you probably won't see any residue on your finger.

You can then demonstrate the same test in the presence of the householder. This will prove that it's not your fault. It's aging, weathering and oxidisation. You cannot make the windows new again.

You won't wear the frame away by scrubbing it with a wfp and medium brush, though I personally would not use a stiff brush, incase you caused scratches.

I've found that once you can show this test to the customer, it generally stops them in their tracks, and sometimes they can be a bit embarrassed to be shown by the professional window cleaner (your good self) that their windows are past their prime. 🙂

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Restoration work. What Davy g has suggested is spot on. It can be ‘fixed’, but it will cost the customer your time and their money. I’ve had quite a few first cleans with badly affected frames. Takes me around 15-20 minutes per window to restore. I find it more hassle when the seals start to leach, sometimes this can’t be prevented. Hot water doesn’t help on these frames (with the seals leaching) it makes them worse!!!

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Just give the frames a good scrub they won’t bleed forever , then rinse the frame once it starts drying do the glass and just rinse the glass and it will be fine .

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Diamond geezer
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, AGlassAct said:

Restoration work. What Davy g has suggested is spot on. It can be ‘fixed’, but it will cost the customer your time and their money. I’ve had quite a few first cleans with badly affected frames. Takes me around 15-20 minutes per window to restore. I find it more hassle when the seals start to leach, sometimes this can’t be prevented. Hot water doesn’t help on these frames (with the seals leaching) it makes them worse!!!

When you restore them (for a price) do you just scrub or put on a chem to help you ?

Edited by Diamond geezer
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Diamond geezer

Couldnt sleep a wink last night (only jokeing) woke up and thought about white coated metal frames this morning,though,It might be possible to wash all the white upvc ? of them though.How would you deal with them please.Hope i can get to sleep tonight!

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Same as already said , it is possible to remove all the white coating of aluminium frames , I have several customers that the frames started off white they are now silver 😂😂😂😂 they are however from the 1970 so customer s understand and are fine with it . 

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6 hours ago, Diamond geezer said:

Couldnt sleep a wink last night (only jokeing) woke up and thought about white coated metal frames this morning,though,It might be possible to wash all the white upvc ? of them though.How would you deal with them please.Hope i can get to sleep tonight!

I'd deal with them the same way I guess.  I'm not sure I've come across white coated metal frames up to now.

I've read so many different opinions on different methods, brushes and jets required for different windows, ie : leaded, hydrophobic, hydrophilic, plastic frames, metal frames, wooden frames. I don't know? I keep it simple. I only use two types of brush : Extreme Sill for 95% of my work. Medium Mixed Sill for rough work. 100 degree fans in all our brushes apart from some of the old veterans which still have 50 degree fans.

My technique is more or less the same as I advised you for the milky frames, no matter what type of window or glass. I rinse on. It's pretty much only the degree of scrubbing, agitation and rinsing that I alter. No scrubbing at all when a window is up together, except of course for bird muck and spider stains and the like. Just gentle and fast agitation and rinsing with a light grip on the pole, letting the bristles do the work.

As I see it, it's not golf or angling, where you do need very different clubs and rods. Apart of course from different pole lengths required. It's just cleaning frames and glass. Get to grips with a sound base of equipment and then nail down a sound technique. I have my formula of strokes and equipment. Every clean is based around that formula, long, complete strokes for effectiveness, speed and efficiency.

That's the one main observation I see with a lot of YouTube videos and with most operators I've seen at work near me. Dreadful technique. Scrubbing and faffing about, often with no really obvious, identifiable method. Up and down, rinsing, and up and down again, usually with short little unfocused strokes. I could cry! There are exceptions : Squeeky Clean Dave comes to mind as having a very good technique, very few others.

Hope you manage to sleep ok. 🙂

Edited by Davy G
Slight tweek, as I nearly always do. 🙂
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Diamond geezer

Ill sleep ok tonight then,and wake afresh to wipe away as much paint as i can Thanks

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I use the pink stuff on all my first cleans, coupled with the white ‘scourer’ pad gardiners sell (for the scraper). I finish it off with a wipe over with a magic sponge. If the sills are still a bit faded (very rare) I get the solvent cleaner out to give the sill a final wipe over. I find old plastic (when restored) is far easier to keep white that the newer stuff. 

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Diamond geezer
4 hours ago, Davy G said:

I'm not sure I've come across white coated metal frames up to now.

I've read so many different opinions on different methods, brushes and jets required for different windo

UPVC  on metal frames Supposed to be better than just upvc.more load bearing.Cost more Cheers

 

 

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Loads of white aluminium framed windows around me, 60’s bungalows a plenty. First one I did that was chalky I sprayEd with screwfix no nonsense degreaser, nearly gave me a heart attack when I scrubbed it and the paint came off back to shiny metal !! Had to do both front windows to match but luckily it just took two goes and the customer preferred the silver (the rest of the house was silver?!?)

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Diamond geezer
4 minutes ago, AGlassAct said:

I use the pink stuff on all my first cleans, coupled with the white ‘scourer’ pad gardiners sell (for the scraper). I finish it off with a wipe over with a magic sponge. If the sills are still a bit faded (very rare) I get the solvent cleaner out to give the sill a final wipe over. I find old plastic (when restored) is far easier to keep white that the newer stuff. 

Thats interesting old stuff easier(when restored) to keep whiteWhy do you think that is please i use a solvent cleaner sometimes.I think its best to have an arsenal of cleaners if one dont work another will,

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9 minutes ago, Diamond geezer said:

Thats interesting old stuff easier(when restored) to keep whiteWhy do you think that is please i use a solvent cleaner sometimes.I think its best to have an arsenal of cleaners if one dont work another will,

I think a lot of the newer windows are made from recycled plastic. I think that's why some fade quite rapidly. I see a fair few newish frames that have lost their sheen and depth of colour. I see it more in coloured frames, especially cream and yellowish ones but I do also see it on some white, brown, grey and black ones.

I don't get involved with restoration with cloths, chemicals and scrubbing. Unless I'm doing a scheduled and paid for soapwash. Even then it's brush work and soapwash only. For a good clean not a restoration.

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