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Backpack Wireless remote control modification


Apw1210

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 DISCLAIMER 

Do not attempt to install this into a new backpack or one that is still covered by a vaild warranty.

only carry out this installation if you are competent with electronics.

Good evening, 

I have had a few enquiries from people wanting to modify their backpack systems with wireless remote controls. 

The circuit diagram below shows the factory wired battery, pump & mini flow controller wired in it's OEM setup. 

the highlighted dotted margin box around the wireless relay switch is the component that is added to the standalone system.

Explanation: 

with the backpack in its normal configuration and switched on so you have water flowing the wireless relay switch circuit interrupts one of the two conductors (wires) sending voltage to the pump.

 for example the pump will have a pair of wires going into it. Lets say a red & black.

Cutting only the red wire and connecting in the two blue wires as shown in the diagram. From relay contacts (NO) Normally open & (COM) Common.

The power to the wireless relay switch positive & negative are sourced from the backpacks battery.

When the backpack is switched on and desired flow is pumping water with a single press of the wireless relay keyfob transmitter button the water flow stops, and pressing the button again starts the flow. 

The mini flow controller illustrated within my diagram and it's wiring is based on the DA Components unit. 

You'll need to check that the model you may have is similar with regards to it's wiring and colour coding.

The red dotted line within the pump wiring red wires is there as an example showing the red wire has been cut ✂️ 

I always recommend using an additional inline maxi blade fuse to protect the wireless relay switch.

Brown 7.5amp from the battery positive to the positive input terminal of the wireless relay switch 

All connections made should ideally be a solder joint and insulated with heatshrink tubing or insulation tape.

Do not use the cheap Chinese heatshrink solder crimp tubing terminals found on Ebay or Amazon as they are low temperature solder which breaks and causes dry joints. 

The relay switch circuit board should be installed in a way that it is secure and does not get damp with it's terminal connections secure and installed. 

If you decide to install this modification you do so at your own risk. 

 

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Edited by Apw1210
  • Like 3
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I opened up my Gardiner backpack to take a look at how it's wired, i was shocked to see how all the wires are just twisted together (not soldered)and they used some sort of screw on cap to hold them together, 1 fell off when i touched it, another one has some wires sticking out from the cap. some wires were crushed between the battery and the casing. not good🤦‍♀️

It does mean i can just re-route the wires without having to cut into them, so if i needed to i could put it back to how it was before i fitted the remote

 

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I had to cut a single wire if I remember. The rest I used the supplied 'connectors' They are not great connectors but they are cheap and easy to fix in the field. Wagos are much better but they are more expensive.

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On 18/11/2020 at 14:13, JEM said:

I opened up my Gardiner backpack to take a look at how it's wired, i was shocked to see how all the wires are just twisted together (not soldered)and they used some sort of screw on cap to hold them together, 1 fell off when i touched it, another one has some wires sticking out from the cap. some wires were crushed between the battery and the casing. not good🤦‍♀️

It does mean i can just re-route the wires without having to cut into them, so if i needed to i could put it back to how it was before i fitted the remote

 

Cheap Chinese American style wire nuts. An excellent way for dry joints and faults. Hence why I don't support gardiner products 

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15 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

Cheap Chinese American style wire nuts. An excellent way for dry joints and faults. Hence why I don't support gardiner products 

Wago 222 series connectors are so much better and more reliable.

Soldering with decent heatshrink better still but need more tools in case of issues.

Edited by ched999uk
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On 21/11/2020 at 20:26, Apw1210 said:

Cheap Chinese American style wire nuts. An excellent way for dry joints and faults. Hence why I don't support gardiner products 

To be fair i don't think you support anything lol. 

On 18/11/2020 at 14:13, JEM said:

I opened up my Gardiner backpack to take a look at how it's wired, i was shocked to see how all the wires are just twisted together (not soldered)and they used some sort of screw on cap to hold them together, 1 fell off when i touched it, another one has some wires sticking out from the cap. some wires were crushed between the battery and the casing. not good🤦‍♀️

It does mean i can just re-route the wires without having to cut into them, so if i needed to i could put it back to how it was before i fitted the remote

I got one of the good ones then, mine has solder! The joints were completely dry and needed resoldering lol but at least i got solder! Had to cut the wires and re solder the entire lot though..

Edited by Tango
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On 21/11/2020 at 20:37, ched999uk said:

Wago 222 series connectors are so much better and more reliable.

To be fair blue wire splicers are bloody excellent - pop the wire in that you want to connect to, pop in the destination wire, crimp the thing together with pliers and it's done.

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+wire+splice&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB732GB732&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6z6ijuJftAhUfUBUIHRtlA3EQ_AUoAnoECAMQBA&biw=1366&bih=625

You can get inline fuse holders like it too.

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2 minutes ago, Tango said:

To be fair i don't think you support anything lol. 

I got one of the good ones then, mine has solder! The joints were completely dry and needed resoldering lol but at least i got solder! Had to cut the wires and re solder the entire lot though..

I support the things I choose. 

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3 minutes ago, Tango said:

To be fair blue wire splicers are bloody excellent - pop the wire in that you want to connect to, pop in the destination wire, crimp the thing together with pliers and it's done.

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+wire+splice&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB732GB732&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6z6ijuJftAhUfUBUIHRtlA3EQ_AUoAnoECAMQBA&biw=1366&bih=625

You can get inline fuse holders like it too.

Crimps are OK but if they fail you need tool with you to repair. Don't use pliers you need proper ratchet crimp tool to ensure correct pressure is applied to conductor and insulation.

That's why I think the wago 222 are a good choice for backpacks. The twist things gardiner use on their v3 backpacks are not the best things but they are cheap and easy to field repair without any specialist tools. 

Crimps and solder joints have their place. But as you say, you had dry solder joints that required a soldering iron to repair. While I do have a gas iron I want to keep my tools to minimum. 

Each of us work differently due to our training and experience, so it good to chat about stuff. We all have stuff to learn and stuff to teach. 

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Guys with setting up the remote i have 3 programming options 1-jog 2-latched 3-toggle

I'm guessing I want latched mode?

Also with it permanently connected live does it drain the battery as it has a little led light

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8 hours ago, ched999uk said:

Crimps are OK but if they fail you need tool with you to repair. Don't use pliers you need proper ratchet crimp tool to ensure correct pressure is applied to conductor and insulation.

I think the ratchet tool is clearly overkill to be honest. Pliers do a fine job - you just squeeze together and the metal blade goes down and slices through the insulation making contact with the wire behind it. It's really not rocket science. Yes for mechanical stuff on cars you may well need a ratchet for certain things but for electronic stuff i've never heard of people needing ratchets for disposable connectors. I certainly don't see Spring advising to buy a specialist tool just to join their wires and fure holder together (and those folding blue things are what they supply).

1 hour ago, JEM said:

Guys with setting up the remote i have 3 programming options 1-jog 2-latched 3-toggle

I'm guessing I want latched mode?

Also with it permanently connected live does it drain the battery as it has a little led light

Latched I believe will be press and it turns on and stays on. You want Toggle - Toggle which basically means on / off. Not a clue about Jog.

Talking of draining battery i've found my leisure at 83% this morning. Last night it was at 87%. It's either the cold that's doing it or the controller is draining a fair amount of juice.

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1 hour ago, Tango said:

Latched I believe will be press and it turns on and stays on. You want Toggle - Toggle which basically means on / off. Not a clue about Jog.

Talking of draining battery i've found my leisure at 83% this morning. Last night it was at 87%. It's either the cold that's doing it or the controller is draining a fair amount of juice.

Ok great toggle it is, I'm wondering if i can have the receiver only live when i turn the backpack on so it's not permanently on when the backpack is off

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3 hours ago, JEM said:

Guys with setting up the remote i have 3 programming options 1-jog 2-latched 3-toggle

I'm guessing I want latched mode?

Also with it permanently connected live does it drain the battery as it has a little led light

Have you a single or twin button wireless remote control? 

You'll need latched and wire the relay for NO Normally open 

Wire the negative to the battery directly and the positive to an output of the open position of the power on switch. So the relay is only powered when the backpack is switched on 

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35 minutes ago, JEM said:

Ok great toggle it is, I'm wondering if i can have the receiver only live when i turn the backpack on so it's not permanently on when the backpack is off

Just wire it in after the switch on the backpack and make sure you fit it after the fuse.

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1 hour ago, Tango said:

I think the ratchet tool is clearly overkill to be honest. Pliers do a fine job - you just squeeze together and the metal blade goes down and slices through the insulation making contact with the wire behind it.

You mean scotchloks? They are the worst things ever invented. They are so unreliable it's untrue. They are the ones that you don't strip any insulation off and if you are using the correct wire gauge then the metal slice bit might make contact with the conductor?

Back in the early 90's I worked part time for Halfords. We used to sell loads of Moss car alarms, they came with scotchloks to install. I would say on average I would have to 'fix' at least 5 every Sunday and the issue on 90% of them was the scotchloks!!!

If you have the skills solder and heatshrink. If not use wago 222 as they maintain tension on the conductors (once stripped) they are deemed maintenance free connection and are compliant with 17th edition wiring practices (as long as in appropriate container). 

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24 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

Have you a single or twin button wireless remote control? 

You'll need latched and wire the relay for NO Normally open 

Wire the negative to the battery directly and the positive to an output of the open position of the power on switch. So the relay is only powered when the backpack is switched on 

It's a single button remote

I was thinking of taking the + power from the same source as the feed to the pump. So like you say the receiver is only live when its switched on 👍

So the pump + wire is wired the same as your diagram Normally open and Common

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17 minutes ago, JEM said:

It's a single button remote

I was thinking of taking the + power from the same source as the feed to the pump. So like you say the receiver is only live when its switched on 👍

So the pump + wire is wired the same as your diagram Normally open and Common

This is why I discourage people modifying equipment because every that asks and says they understand electronics actually don't. The wireless relay switch comes with a wiring diagram. I’ve also provided a wfp specific version.

It's really easy and there's only 4 wires 

Which side of the switch is switched live? 

Yes correct Common and Normally open 

 

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24 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

This is why I discourage people modifying equipment because every that asks and says they understand electronics actually don't. The wireless relay switch comes with a wiring diagram. I’ve also provided a wfp specific version.

It's really easy and there's only 4 wires 

Which side of the switch is switched live? 

Yes correct Common and Normally open 

It is easy, it's just the receiver wiring isn't the same as your diagram. The power feed for my receiver is at the opposite end to yours and the markings on the board are hidden.

I'll figure it out

24 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

 

 

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34 minutes ago, JEM said:

It is easy, it's just the receiver wiring isn't the same as your diagram. The power feed for my receiver is at the opposite end to yours and the markings on the board are hidden.

I'll figure it out

 

The terminal block should be etched with markings on the under side aswell

V+ V- NO NC COM you can always probe contacts for continuity 

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I've wired it up i have power only going to the receiver when the backpack is turned on which is good, the only thing is when i turn the backpack on the pump doesn't turn on until i press the transmitter so i am reliant on that 

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