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Taking on a helper


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Well im at that point now, i need to run a 2 man set up, ive got a few days each 6weeks where i need some help or split the days (which i dont wanna do).

Ive got a lad lined up who only wants a few days a month and hes happy to be self employed.

Advice i need!

What insurances do i need when taking somebody on 4-5 days a month on a self employed basis?

Will i be able to run a 2nd pump and hose reel off the same leisure battery or will i need a 2nd battery?

 

Theres almost certainly stuff ive not thought of so calling on you guys experiences for advice.

 

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I'll  assume he has a job elsewhere, you will need labour only insurance, explain to the insurance company that you're only using him occasionally and you'll be working with him.

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2 pumps and 1 hose reel should be OK but you might need to charge each day unless you do lots of miles. At first it might be best to check voltage as you go and compare with just you using it. That's not a perfect way to see as a lead acid takes about 4hrs after use to see what it's state of charge actually is. But if you write down your batt voltage just from you running things say after 2 hrs of work then after 4 hrs etc. and compare it should give you an idea.

If you have an accountant ask him/her to tell you how to comply with the laws when using a 'self employed person' it's not straight forward. HMRC can see it as employed unless you follow the rules carefully. I think there is a list of 5 or 7 things that need to be complied with to be paying someone on a self employed basis: things like who owns tools, who provides work, who is paid by customers, can 'helper' sub out work, are they tied to your hrs etc..... Ask an accountant though!!!!

I assume your tank is big enough to supply you both with a days pure?

Insurance wise you need to check his/her insurance to ensure that they are covered for the jobs you are asking them to do. i.e. your insurance is unlikely to cover a self employed person so they need their own to cover you!!!! Say he dropped a ladder on someone's car!!! Unless your current company would add him - ring them and explain.

 

Edited by ched999uk
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Just now, Part Timer said:

I'll  assume he has a job elsewhere, you will need labour only insurance, explain to the insurance company that you're only using him occasionally and you'll be working with him.

Yeah he has 2 part time jobs, hes the 'batter boy' in a chippy 3 nights a week, and works for a shop 7-8am 6 days a week.

He will be working with me probably 8.30--3.00 4/5 days a month.

Ive explained to him that if it rains i dont work and if we dont work he wont be paid but we then work the next clear day. Hes more than happy with that.

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2 minutes ago, ched999uk said:

2 pumps and 1 hose reel should be OK but you might need to charge each day unless you do lots of miles. At first it might be best to check voltage as you go and compare with just you using it. That's not a perfect way to see as a lead acid takes about 4hrs after use to see what it's state of charge actually is. But if you write down your batt voltage just from you running things say after 2 hrs of work then after 4 hrs etc. and compare it should give you an idea.

If you have an accountant ask him/her to tell you how to comply with the laws when using a 'self employed person' it's not straight forward. HMRC can see it as employed unless you follow the rules carefully. I think there is a list of 5 or 7 things that need to be complied with to be paying someone on a self employed basis: things like who owns tools, who provides work, who is paid by customers, can 'helper' sub out work, are they tied to your hrs etc..... Ask an accountant though!!!!

I assume your tank is big enough to supply you both with a days pure?

Insurance wise you need to check his/her insurance to ensure that they are covered for the jobs you are asking them to do. i.e. your insurance is unlikely to cover a self employed person so they need their own to cover you!!!! Say he dropped a ladder on someone's car!!!

 

Cheers mate, i run a big leisure battery and i have a Bat/Bat charger on it, i dont do many miles at all and alot of the work we will be working on together is all compact, ive got a day with 30ish houses on where the van only moves 3 times and its less than 2miles from home

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Regards to the setup, you can easily run 2 pumps, 2 controllers into 2 separate hose reels on one leisure battery, without it affecting performance. You would want a good battery brand though, over 100ah, like yuasa/banner etc. I would buy two batts and rotate daily whilst the other is on bench charge, regardless if you have a split charge relay on the van. Good luck

Edited by mac74
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2 minutes ago, mac74 said:

Regards to the setup, you can easily run 2 pumps, 2 controllers into 2 separate hose reels on one leisure battery, without it affecting performance. You would want a good brand though over 100ah, like yuasa/banner etc. I would buy two batts and rotate daily whilst the other is on bench charge, regardless if you have a split charge relay on the van. Good luck

Cheers my Battery is a 115ah battery, and as said i run it on a sterling batery/batrey charger, do you think it will still need swapping over nightly.

 

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Depends how many hours you are working one pump per pole works best , I would suggest two x105 or 115 ,batteries if using cold I found one battery struggled when I did it but with 2x115 it worked well . Good luck with the expansion 

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11 minutes ago, HWCS said:

Cheers my Battery is a 115ah battery, and as said i run it on a sterling batery/batrey charger, do you think it will still need swapping over nightly.

 

I would, you have to remember the rule of the thumb is never take more than 50% out of the batt, so 4 u that is 57.5ah, otherwise u will start to kill the battery. So each day u get help, i would make sure the batt is full to take the extra draw. You can get little volt meters of the bay about £9 and u can wire them in between your setup and it will tell u everything, volts, amps, watts, total over the day on each pump setup.

 

 

Edited by mac74
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1 minute ago, Pjj said:

Depends how many hours you are working one pump per pole works best , I would suggest two x105 or 115 ,batteries if using cold I found one battery struggled when I did it but with 2x115 it worked well . Good luck with the expansion 

Cheers mate, when you ran 2 batteries did you run them both off split relays or bat/bat charger, and if youve run 2 set ups from 1 battery did you have to run the controllers at a higher speed?

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8 minutes ago, HWCS said:

Cheers mate, when you ran 2 batteries did you run them both off split relays or bat/bat charger, and if youve run 2 set ups from 1 battery did you have to run the controllers at a higher speed?

I charged them every night , no split  charger. The batteries were linked Ime no electrician my mate wired it up I had two controllers two pumps it was an ionics system with there analog controllers and ionics pumps ,   

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Your pump will draw around 3amp ish whilst running open flow 80ish, (i use shurflo 5.2l with v16 controller). Do you use a controller?? If u use a controller it goes to dead end (DE) as soon as u switch off the tap/univalve, this stops the pump fightin hard to get the water out which pulls big amps out of the batt before the pump goes to pressure switch 8 amps max.

Edited by mac74
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1 minute ago, mac74 said:

Your pump will draw around 3amp ish whilst running open flow, (i use shurflo 5.2l with v16 controller). Do you use a controller?? If u use a controller it goes to dead end (DE) as soon as u switch off the tap/univalve, this stops the pump fightin hard to get the water out which pulls big amps out of the batt before the pump goes to pressure switch 8 amps max.

So if ive read your reply right, as long as the poles are using Univalves then i should be ok with a 115ah battery for 6hrs with 2 poles with controllers, because they will only use minimal ampage.

 

Both set ups will be run with sureflow 5.2l pumps and digital controllers.

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27 minutes ago, HWCS said:

So if ive read your reply right, as long as the poles are using Univalves then i should be ok with a 115ah battery for 6hrs with 2 poles with controllers, because they will only use minimal ampage.

 

Both set ups will be run with sureflow 5.2l pumps and digital controllers.

Yea, but is does depend on how old your batt is? When a battery gets old, it may still say its got 12.7/8v after charge, but after time it looses capacity, so if say its 100ah when brand new, after a few years having the balls pulled out of it, it may only have 50ah in it, but will still read 12.8v when charged because its charged that 50ah to 12.8v if u get what i mean. I have had this happen a few times. You say u have a sterling charger (vgood chrgr), is it a mains charger or a scr? As your work is very tight together (like mine) a SCR will do nothing for u. The bottom line is, you will need to see how your setup runs right now with 2 men running 8hr day/5hrs (max pump time) to see how the battery holds up. If it doesn't, i can say that a new battery 100/115ah, new wiring, new controllers, and if your pumps are ok, you WILL easily do you working day without over straining a new 100/115ah battery, IF you rotate and charge daily with a mains charger ctek/sterling/victron

Edited by mac74
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1 minute ago, mac74 said:

Yea, but is does depend on how old your batt is? When a battery gets old, it may still say its got 12.7/8v after charge, but after time it looses capacity, so if say its 100ah when brand new, after a few years having the balls pulled out of it, it may only have 50ah in it, but will still read 12.8v when charged because its charged that 50ah to 12.8v if u get what i mean. I have had this happen a few times. You say u have a sterling charger (vgood), is it a mains charger of scr? As your work is very tight together (like mine) a SCR will do nothing for u. The bottom line is, you will need to see how your setup runs right now with 2 men running 8hr day/5hrs (max pump time) to see how the battery holds up. If it doesn't, i can say that a new battery 100/115ah, new wiring, new controllers, and if your pumps are ok, you WILL easily do you working day without over straining a new 100/115ah battery, IF you rotate and charge daily with a mains charger ctek/sterling/victron

My sterling Bat/Bat charger runs off my main van battery.

My battery is a really good quality one and is under a year old.

Ill only be running the duel set up 4/5 days a month and very rarely 2 days in a row.

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2 minutes ago, HWCS said:

My sterling Bat/Bat charger runs off my main van battery.

My battery is a really good quality one and is under a year old.

Ill only be running the duel set up 4/5 days a month and very rarely 2 days in a row.

Ok, ive got a van SCR like yourself and i killed a few leisure batts back in the early days, because i didn't realise that because my work is so close together i wasn't doing enough miles to put any real charge back into the leisure batt. I recently had to change controllers because the batt warning kept flashin up saying 11.6 ish under draw on the old v9 model. I replaced the wiring but same prob, i changed the controllers and it solved the problem! Anyway you will defo need to get a mains charger, and maybe just give it a overnight mains bench charge the night b4 working with the new lad? If you start getting flow problems after a few hours, whilst the two pumps are running you will have to change a few things, i.e wiring, batt, or controllers.

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7 minutes ago, mac74 said:

Ok, ive got a van SCR like yourself and i killed a few leisure batts back in the early days, because i didn't realise that because my work is so close together i wasn't doing enough miles to put any real charge back into the leisure batt. I recently had to change controllers because the batt warning kept flashin up saying 11.6 ish under draw on the old v9 model. I replaced the wiring but same prob, i changed the controllers and it solved the problem! Anyway you will defo need to get a mains charger, and maybe just give it a overnight mains bench charge the night b4 working with the new lad? If you start getting flow problems after a few hours, whilst the two pumps are running you will have to change a few things, i.e wiring, batt, or controllers.

https://deepcyclebatterystore.com/how-to-maintain-batteries/

Another member of a forum put this link on some time ago, it may help. Good luck

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