heavy red algae staining - best strategy

[DeLaCruz]

Some of the worst I have seen - biocide and leave it to work or hypo nuke it ? Any other options available? Also unsure how many treatments this will need - let me if you have experience with similar in the past thanks ?

 

[Pjj]

We would give it a good wet down then apply hypo mix 4-1 spray on or apply through the brush good scrub leave for 30-40 muinits rinse and re apply , 3-3 applications should be ok , ted will take longer to disappear, do a test patch John then leave over night and go back it usually it will have disappeared over night , just give me a ring if you have any problems

 

[DeLaCruz]

Yeah was thinking that would be a decent strategy - also was gonna offer a biocide after treatment a few weeks later for the longer lasting results as it doesn’t take long to apply and gives long lasted results

 

[Pjj]

I haven’t found it does offer any longer protection against re growth in fact have found the opposite on sun jobs we have done , will have a chat to you about it next time you are round ?

 

[Part Timer]

Are you insured to use hypo? By adding a surfactant you're becoming a chemist and very much doubt your insurance company will like that. Pay a bit extra and use a licensed hypo, with a surfactant already in it to cover yourself.

 

[Pjj]

Are you insured to use hypo? By adding a surfactant you're becoming a chemist and very much doubt your insurance company will like that. Pay a bit extra and use a licensed hypo, with a surfactant already in it to cover yourself.

My insurance does cover me for softwashing using sodium hypochlorite and biocides ,you can add an approved surfactant to hypochlorite legally provided it’s approved be added to it .
Benz lightning cleanse is a waist of money it doesn’t do anything better than normal hypo and is 3 times the price , we only use it if the customer specifically requested it .

 

[Part Timer]

For a number of years industrial, farm or swimming pool bleach has been for cleaning and disinfecting. More recently some people, without clear knowledge of the regulations and legality of their practice, have been self-formulating their own products.

A product for swimming pool chlorination will have a PRCD number and HSE approval, as will a farm grade SH. But these are not approved by the PRCD or HSE for use as soft washing chemicals. Using them outside of the approval criteria immediately makes their use illegal under BPR and REACH.

A company that supplies chemical products formulates them for a specific "intended use". Sterilising milking machine equipment or swimming pool disinfection are examples of intended use.

The actual act of mixing chemicals is very hard to mitigate and control. It puts the person doing the mixing in the position of being a "formulator" of a product, which carries it own set of insurances, practices and procedures under very tight REACH and COSHH regulations.

Therefore the practice of mixing unapproved sodium hypochlorite with unapproved additives does not comply with REACH, BPR, HSE, PRCD, COPR or COSHH and is illegal.


Important: A contractor using a non-approved product is using a product for other than its intended use, and will be contravening serious government legislation. In the event of an accident, injury to persons, or damage to property a contractor's insurance could be deemed void if they are found to have been using non-approved, and therefore illegal, chemical products.



 

[Pjj]

For a number of years industrial, farm or swimming pool bleach has been for cleaning and disinfecting. More recently some people, without clear knowledge of the regulations and legality of their practice, have been self-formulating their own products.

A product for swimming pool chlorination will have a PRCD number and HSE approval, as will a farm grade SH. But these are not approved by the PRCD or HSE for use as soft washing chemicals. Using them outside of the approval criteria immediately makes their use illegal under BPR and REACH.

A company that supplies chemical products formulates them for a specific "intended use". Sterilising milking machine equipment or swimming pool disinfection are examples of intended use.

The actual act of mixing chemicals is very hard to mitigate and control. It puts the person doing the mixing in the position of being a "formulator" of a product, which carries it own set of insurances, practices and procedures under very tight REACH and COSHH regulations.

Therefore the practice of mixing unapproved sodium hypochlorite with unapproved additives does not comply with REACH, BPR, HSE, PRCD, COPR or COSHH and is illegal.


Important: A contractor using a non-approved product is using a product for other than its intended use, and will be contravening serious government legislation. In the event of an accident, injury to persons, or damage to property a contractor's insurance could be deemed void if they are found to have been using non-approved, and therefore illegal, chemical products.



Ok let’s look at this from a different aspect , the 4 largest firms in the country doing multi million pound softwashing jobs for very big industry and the NHS dont use a hypochlorite with an added surfactant they add it from a separate tank the set up is called blended mixing this is controlled by a dosetron valve this is the approved way by the HSE to mix the chemicals being used for this type of work , the other way is called one batching ware you mix up a set amount of ltr of the product for the job . I haven’t seen the quotes that you have used in your post before so cannot comment on that , but we have been doing some small jobs locally for the NHS and I had to supply a list of what we would be using and dilution rates , it was passed by their health and safety officer who Evan attended the first site we did without any problems.
As for different types of hypochlorite I know some are slightly different in their make up but basically they are the same ime no chemist and dont claim to be ,i have been doing this for best part of 20 years and still learning , I am basing what ime saying on courses I have been on ,direction from the HSE ,and the health and safety department of the firms we do work for , some have specified using Benz lightning clenze as it is approved , others are happy with dairy hypochlorite and a surfactant that’s there health and safety department saying that so if they are happy with it who am I to argue with them ? I do feel more openness with softwashing is needed so all can see in simple layman’s terminology what’s acceptable and what’s not . As a side point whare did you get the information from you have cited I would like to have a read of it in full and take advice on it as don’t want to get caught out if this is the case . My insurance are fully aware that we are adding a surfactant to hypochlorite and are happy with that . It’s all a bit of a mine field to be honest .

 

[Part Timer]

It's on the Benz site

 

[Pjj]

It's on the Benz site

Ah ok so no vested interest in promoting there own products then ???
joking aside I have just had a quick look at REACH and from initial reading this applies to manufacturers not the end user ? But will need to read it in full , thanks for the references, it must be fairly new in Benz site as I have read everything on there before and never come across that.

 

[Part Timer]

Benz initially supplied it but wasn't licensed they then paid to get it approved and therefore licensed. I very much doubt they would be allowed to publish it, and gone through the expense, if it wasn't correct. Sodium Hypoclorite isn't licensed to be used for softwashing and whilst no one has been done yet it will only be a matter of time as more and more houses are rendered.

 

[DeLaCruz]

yes fully insured for softwashing - interesting what you posted, thanks for the info. Fwiw i do understand the legal side is very important, and dont undertand how insurance companies would offfer insurance for the process if it was illegal with one of the most common chemicals - surely that would be stipulated in the small print of the policy to cover themselves. I am very careful with my pre softwash checks and dilution rates + ppe and fencing off. I got some lightening cleanz in the container so ill give it a try. thanks

 

[Dave B]

Use normal hypo in old Benz containers
That’s what I do sometimes if customer is a pain
None the wiser lol

 

[Part Timer]

yes fully insured for softwashing - interesting what you posted, thanks for the info. Fwiw i do understand the legal side is very important, and dont undertand how insurance companies would offfer insurance for the process if it was illegal with one of the most common chemicals - surely that would be stipulated in the small print of the policy to cover themselves. I am very careful with my pre softwash checks and dilution rates + ppe and fencing off. I got some lightening cleanz in the container so ill give it a try. thanks

They will insure you as they will expect you to follow the rules. It's a very grey area as Hypo isn't recommended to be used to be used in cleaning buildings and therefore under REACH it is, technically, illegal to do so. Not here to argue but after going on a course, where this practice was highlighted as being illegal, I think people need to be made aware that, potentially, they aren't insured.

 

[Pjj]

Use normal hypo in old Benz containers
That’s what I do sometimes if customer is a pain
None the wiser lol

Lol that’s an illegal one if ever I Hurd it putting a different chemical in a drum to what’s stated on it !!!!????

 

[K in Kent]

I've read all the above with interest and understand the arguments and points of view.
So I'm just playing devil's advocate now because I'm not sure of the answer myself...... but there companies now marketing hypo as 'patio cleaner' in addition to its other uses. In which case does that not make it compliant with the 'intended use' aspect?
I appreciate it the post relates to a building rather than a patio but it is essentially being sold now as a surface cleaner. Would that make it an approved product?

 

[Part Timer]

I've read all the above with interest and understand the arguments and points of view.
So I'm just playing devil's advocate now because I'm not sure of the answer myself...... but there companies now marketing hypo as 'patio cleaner' in addition to its other uses. In which case does that not make it compliant with the 'intended use' aspect?
I appreciate it the post relates to a building rather than a patio but it is essentially being sold now as a surface cleaner. Would that make it an approved product?

I think, but don't know, they would have to apply for it to be designated for that use. Half the problem is I don't think anyone knows the full story.

 

[Pjj]

I've read all the above with interest and understand the arguments and points of view.
So I'm just playing devil's advocate now because I'm not sure of the answer myself...... but there companies now marketing hypo as 'patio cleaner' in addition to its other uses. In which case does that not make it compliant with the 'intended use' aspect?
I appreciate it the post relates to a building rather than a patio but it is essentially being sold now as a surface cleaner. Would that make it an approved product?

I spoke to @Part Timer yesterday about this and phoned the HSE , several manufacturers and suppliers , Evan the HSE said and I quote it’s a “grey area “but they advised having data sheets for all chemicals and additives being used with you along with coshh details , rams etc at this time there is no recognised industry standard , this was supposed to have been implemented several years ago but still hasn’t ,until there is something in place things will remain grey , it’s very confusing for all . But if you try your best to comply with the current vague details that Evan on the HSE web site seam to contradict themselves that’s all you can do . So far from what they said only warnings have been given from the EA about potential pollution incidents etc . Time will tell how all this pans out .

 

[Part Timer]

Evan the HSE said and I quote it’s a “grey area “but they advised having data sheets for all chemicals and additives being used

The only thing, potentially, I can see wrong in this is that as you've added 2 different chemicals together the data sheets don't apply as it's now a cocktail rather than a single chemical, @kevinc250 might have a better insight

 

[Pjj]

The only thing, potentially, I can see wrong in this is that as you've added 2 different chemicals together the data sheets don't apply as it's now a cocktail rather than a single chemical, @kevinc250 might have a better insight

I understand what you are saying but the HSE guy said that if the additive is designed and approved to be put into hypochlorite then it’s ok , how do Benz do it ? The data sheets are for individual products that have been mixed together, but there are numerous things that are mixed together, petrol and diesel additives added by the motorist , paint is thinned with a thinner or a hardener is added to paint and so the list goes on this is how I look at it that’s ok to do aforementioned so the same with hypo .

 

[Part Timer]

I understand what you are saying but the HSE guy said that if the additive is designed and approved to be put into hypochlorite then it’s ok , how do Benz do it ? The data sheets are for individual products that have been mixed together, but there are numerous things that are mixed together, petrol and diesel additives added by the motorist , paint is thinned with a thinner or a hardener is added to paint and so the list goes on this is how I look at it that’s ok to do aforementioned so the same with hypo .

Who has approved the additive though, Benz had to go through a process to get it registered as an approved product. How and what they did I don't know but initially their Lightning Cleanze wasn't an approved product. People complained about it and their hand was forced to pay the money to get it tested.