Peed right off with some customers

[Baldmonkey]

I agree with you but good luck trying to get them to pay it , it’s far easier to dump them and replace with a better customer 

thats kinda the double edge to us agreeing in that they should be dumped, but if they dont pay it they are dumped, if they do then they understand its a business and not some ****** with a ladder and a squeegee after doing 5 years of bird

 

[Baldmonkey]

We don't do T&Cs. Nothing in writing other than the details needed on our notes and records and the details they need on the back of a business card for the customer. We do it old fashioned. We go by experience and gut feeling and are flexible around what we feel as we go, over time.

maybe t&c's was the wrong turn of phrase, we actually have  "terms of service and FAQ" they dont sign anything and are not bound by anything, but have to appreciate and understand that we function in a particular way. gut feeling can only get you so far with selfish, inconsiderate and frankly sometimes..... stupid people...if it is there in a pdf its plain and simple

 

[Davy G]

maybe t&c's was the wrong turn of phrase, we actually have  "terms of service and FAQ" they dont sign anything and are not bound by anything, but have to appreciate and understand that we function in a particular way. gut feeling can only get you so far with selfish, inconsiderate and frankly sometimes..... stupid people...if it is there in a pdf its plain and simple

Fair enough. Our system works well for us. And yours does for you. ??

 

[Baldmonkey]

Honestly, if I sent a message to a customer who's windows I've not cleaned saying they owe me full payment they would probably tell me o to **** off as they know I'm not going to take them to court over £12 , also they may give me a bad review or negative feedback to other potential customers . Just doesn't seem worth it to me. If I don't clean there windows I don't expect to be paid ( and on the very few occasions this has happened my honesty and saying there's no need for payment actually works in a positive way as there grateful for honesty and pay full, leaving both me and the customer happy) 

your not telling them they owe you full payment and surprising them, your showing them upfront and honestly that this is how we operate if you would like to join our service, your not jumping out like a frigging payment ninja from out of nowhere....they will be fully aware of how that business operates..and just to be clear incase you haven't read any of the other replys or quotes, i'm not saying they cant cancel....im saying they cant cancel AFTER i have taken the time to message them the evening before and not expect me to bear the cost of a lost time slot. when your starting out these problems aren't as annoying, but wait till you have a bigger customer base and can lose over £150 a week just on people taking the opportunity to cancel when you have messaged them...that comes out of your pocket you know

Fair enough. Our system works well for us. And yours does for you. ??

my original post title would beg to differ ???

 

[Neil.. Lancashire]

If I could throw my 2 cents in....

I do this too. And just tonight I've had a customer cancel as he said he's just put alot of Xmas lights up and there all over the windows, you want to know how I handled it?

'Not an issue, will book you back in for your January clean and have a great xmas ?'. 

However if it was 2 months in a row things would be different. But I've honestly not come across that yet and just use his cancellation as a spot to put another person in. 

I don't honestly know how people work without sending a message the night before as 50% of my customers have locked back gates and if I didn't message them they are not going to have the back gates open wondering at some point the window cleaner may turn up. If I ever get a cancellation saying not this month it's always a viable reason like having garden work done or a driveway laid that's Infront of there windows and I always try and work around it and say if it will be clear by the end of the week I'll call and do them then. This may just be lucky for me as 90% of my customers are always around the same area so it's not a big deal. 

I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens 2 months in a row. Then that's when I would threaten with service being stopped. For the most part I would say 99% of my customers really are grateful for the message the night before and if they do leave the gate locked they always pay full as they was aware and know it's not my fault. 

That's not a problem.  we will charge you £5 more to cover the extra time it will take on are next visit. If there messing you about that should sort them out for trying it on again.

 

[Bongofish]

your not telling them they owe you full payment and surprising them, your showing them upfront and honestly that this is how we operate if you would like to join our service, your not jumping out like a frigging payment ninja from out of nowhere....they will be fully aware of how that business operates..and just to be clear incase you haven't read any of the other replys or quotes, i'm not saying they cant cancel....im saying they cant cancel AFTER i have taken the time to message them the evening before and not expect me to bear the cost of a lost time slot. when your starting out these problems aren't as annoying, but wait till you have a bigger customer base and can lose over £150 a week just on people taking the opportunity to cancel when you have messaged them...that comes out of your pocket you know

my original post title would beg to differ ???

Honestly what I would say is, as much as window cleaning is our business 99% of customers don't think about us until that message is sent and then instantly forget again. Most customers wont think about messaging the window cleaner if there having work done, we are just an after thought and when that message comes through saying there window clean is tommorrow is when we are back in the forefront of there mind and then tell us about work being done etc etc. 

 

[Iron Giant]

Custys that need a text for access are the only ones I text, people bolting and locking gates is on the increase, these custys are 99.9% of time spot on, I only have 2 custys that seem to forget to open the gate every other time and they get charged full price for only having the fronts done as they are repeat offenders, if it's a one off because someone has just forgot then my £8 minimum charge applies 

 

[Amazin]

this is silly and unnecessary, you're making the problem bigger than it needs to be. Just stop texting. Turn up and get the work done. They agreed to a regular service so they need to keep up with their end of the deal. If they can't then get rid. I don't do T&Cs. Just a simple text message to remind them when they cancel the first time, if they do it again then bye bye

 

[wezza13]

It's funny that you've started this thread - I very rarely get people cancel or skip when I text the night before. However, I texted everyone last night and had 3 say can I skip this time. I explained that I don't skip if we can help it, as they signed up to a 4 or 8 weekly service and the job is priced on those timescales. I texted back saying that it'll be XX amount extra on the next clean. 2 out of the 3 actually texted back and said money is short because of Xmas and Covid. 

I think that we may see a few more of these sort of texts.

 

[Baldmonkey]

It's funny that you've started this thread - I very rarely get people cancel or skip when I text the night before. However, I texted everyone last night and had 3 say can I skip this time. I explained that I don't skip if we can help it, as they signed up to a 4 or 8 weekly service and the job is priced on those timescales. I texted back saying that it'll be XX amount extra on the next clean. 2 out of the 3 actually texted back and said money is short because of Xmas and Covid. 

I think that we may see a few more of these sort of texts.

Yeah it seems to happen in bursts. The current climate with employment is a tricky one indeed and I'm definitely not a person to kick someone whilst they are down, in fact I'm quite the opposite. 

This maybe why so many think it's acceptable to cancel frequently as I have not said anything in the past. 

Like I said before I understand if people have to, that's fine just don't wait till I send the text as its too late for me to fill it ?

 

[Baldmonkey]

this is silly and unnecessary, you're making the problem bigger than it needs to be. Just stop texting. Turn up and get the work done. They agreed to a regular service so they need to keep up with their end of the deal. If they can't then get rid. I don't do T&Cs. Just a simple text message to remind them when they cancel the first time, if they do it again then bye bye

What's silly and unnecessary is turning up to clean numerous properties when the gates locked and you've wasted your time.

what's silly and unnecessary is not being open and honest with people and letting them know how you work and operate until an issue arises. 

What's silly and unnecessary is not utilising an add on service that is a major selling point for customers just because a few customers take advantage in the wrong way. 

What's silly and unnecessary is how you think I'm making the problem bigger than it needs to be by streamlining my businesses efficiency and productivity by introducing a set procedure of working. 

 

[Bongofish]

What's silly and unnecessary is turning up to clean numerous properties when the gates locked and you've wasted your time.

what's silly and unnecessary is not being open and honest with people and letting them know how you work and operate until an issue arises. 

What's silly and unnecessary is not utilising an add on service that is a major selling point for customers just because a few customers take advantage in the wrong way. 

What's silly and unnecessary is how you think I'm making the problem bigger than it needs to be by streamlining my businesses efficiency and productivity by introducing a set procedure of working. 

I get some of your points Baldmonkey. But really think this happens to everyone now and again and it's just a case of 1 time is fine 2 is a no no. 

I really do think as much as us window cleaners should always be on people's minds, unfortunately we are always at the back of them. So expecting someone to message there window cleaner when there having there garden re done and they have a work life, kids, covid worrys etc etc is a big expectation I feel. Don't get me wrong it would be the right thing to do, but with all the stresses on people these days I think messaging the window cleaner is one of the last things on people's minds. And it's not until we message them that they then let us know. I don't think this would be unreasonable of a customer. 

However if someone messaged me the night before and just said no I'm ok my windows still look clean and there was no other reason, then they would be straight took off. I'm not there to ask and beg them for work. 

 

[NewGuy]

I don't think we would get away with charging anything when we have been informed in advance that they don't want their windows cleaned.

Customers are free to choose when they want their windows cleaned or not - we can't force them or impose T&Cs on them.  They are in control of this.

We can control whether we retain them as customers or not.  

I do think it's good practice to inform customers in advance when I turn up and I know many of my customers like this.  If there are any cancellations, I would rather be told in advance.  

 

[wee man]

Yeah it seems to happen in bursts. The current climate with employment is a tricky one indeed and I'm definitely not a person to kick someone whilst they are down, in fact I'm quite the opposite. 

This maybe why so many think it's acceptable to cancel frequently as I have not said anything in the past. 

Like I said before I understand if people have to, that's fine just don't wait till I send the text as its too late for me to fill it ?

I dont understand why it's to Late to add another one on if one doesn't what done. If one of mime text back saying they don't want done this time I just add the next due to that days work. I just drop them if they do it more then twice a year. 

 

[Davy G]

As I've said before. We notify in advance. That makes it easier for us to plan our day.
It means that generally we can complete the work planned for the day. Our customers like the courtesy and efficiency.
It also allows us to very quickly weed out and replace tthe occasional messers. We have a shorthand record on a column on our worksheet for the method of contact, so there can be no valid arguments on the day. Some have tried "I didn't know you were coming!" etc. I can go to the clipboard in the van and show them : vm~voice mail, T~text, em~email. Then I usually hear an embarrassed "Oh! I didn't check my" blah blah blah. If someone is going to be a messer I'd rather know as soon as possible. Rather than be worrying over time. If they have a valid reason for deferring, ie medical, holiday, work going on, that's fine, we'll work around it.

 

[Chris34]

Personally I make everything clear from the outset and give them a full written quotation that is emailed to them explaining the service and working in the rain etc.  However it's not a list of demands, it's a nicely written document just explaining the details of the service.  Nowhere on the document does it mention about cancelling.  I think mentioning anything about terms of cancellation is business suicide.  I think this could be your problem.

Also I go with what PJJ said, I now charge double on first cleans unless they've recently had a window cleaner and they already look clean.  It is true in any business, those who want 'cheap' are your most demanding customers and your least loyal customers.  

 

[ched999uk]

It is true in any business, those who want 'cheap' are your most demanding customers and your least loyal customers.

Very true. It's the ones you go out of your way for that are least appreciative. 

 

[Baldmonkey]

I dont understand why it's to Late to add another one on if one doesn't what done. If one of mime text back saying they don't want done this time I just add the next due to that days work. I just drop them if they do it more then twice a year. 

Because I have set days, I'm not just a turn up when I fancy kinda business man. 

 

[Baldmonkey]

Personally I make everything clear from the outset and give them a full written quotation that is emailed to them explaining the service and working in the rain etc.  However it's not a list of demands, it's a nicely written document just explaining the details of the service.  Nowhere on the document does it mention about cancelling.  I think mentioning anything about terms of cancellation is business suicide.  I think this could be your problem.

Also I go with what PJJ said, I now charge double on first cleans unless they've recently had a window cleaner and they already look clean.  It is true in any business, those who want 'cheap' are your most demanding customers and your least loyal customers.  

Business suicide for having a protocol ?

This industry is looked at as the "scally" or "rogue" of the trades and that's because so many (not all, before everyone jumps down my throat) have no idea how a business should be run properly. 

It's OK to play at being in business and pocketing your quick cash, but have some pride and backbone too. Define what you want and be true to being a good, honest reliable, business owner who clearly sets out his fair and reasonable business protocols. 

Just because some people don't like being told what you do and Do not do within YOUR business doesn't mean it's not right. 

 

[Bongofish]

Business suicide for having a protocol ?

This industry is looked at as the "scally" or "rogue" of the trades and that's because so many (not all, before everyone jumps down my throat) have no idea how a business should be run properly. 

It's OK to play at being in business and pocketing your quick cash, but have some pride and backbone too. Define what you want and be true to being a good, honest reliable, business owner who clearly sets out his fair and reasonable business protocols. 

Just because some people don't like being told what you do and Do not do within YOUR business doesn't mean it's not right. 

All I know is when I was a lorry driver and I paid for a window cleaner if they tried to charge me for a window clean I had not had I would tell them where to go if they messaged me the night before and I politely told them I had an issue which meant they could t be cleaned this month. 

I think your idea of running a very strict business may work, but also my idea of running a friendly reliable business seems to have worked very well for me so far. I would never call out other people on how they run there business. I think to be a window cleaner that last for more than 3 months shows we all have a backbone and all know how to run a business or we no longer would be here. 

I don't think anyone here is a rogue or scally and nor when I see other respectful window cleaners have I ever thought that, even before I was in the trade. So maybe your thinking something that most other people don't? Window cleaning now isn't a luxury as so much as it is a must now a days with everyone have conservatorys and sun rooms and more windows added. And yes it's a respectable trade. 

At the end of the day Baldmonkey if your getting your knickers in a twist about customers cancelling on you the night before and the rest of us are saying we would handle it differntly, maybe a bit of reflection is needed rather than starting to accuse the industry of being scallys or rogues ( or most of them like you say). As if I was a customer of yours the only scally thing I would ever think is a window cleaner demanding full pay for not a full clean and trying to set terms and conditions on a window clean service when there is plenty more who are friendly and happy to choose from. 

 

[wee man]

Because I have set days, I'm not just a turn up when I fancy kinda business man. 

Sorry but you need some flexibility when running a business as your now finding out. Good luck but I'll keep doing it my way.