Tank size

[TimsScrims]

I know this has been discussed in other threads but would just like a bit of advice with my specific system.

A few years ago i treated myself and got fitted a 2 man 750L hot water system with 2 power reels.
until recently upgrading to a 35cm wide brush (i know i know, its only taken me 10 years to see the light, doh) and using the bigger brush im averaging around 400L of water a day.

I have an 18 plate vauxhall vivaro, still going strong 45k miles, i dont provide and dont plan to provide in the future any add on services. But living in the highlands the winds and climate is generally harsher and rear door access is no longer suitable for this climate, so im going to have to go with side door access…my question is, is it worth (since im averaging 400 or so litres a day) downsizing to a 450/500L tank which will be smaller, and lower centre of gravity (shaped like a cube) than the massive xline Xtank that is so overkill for my needs. Or save the money and work and just mount my reel to the side so side door access with a pure freedom type extandable hose guide?


Pros and cons to both. Obviously i never fill my tank, never fill it now above 400-500L so i guess it does have a low centre of gravity to a degree, but the xtank although huge its modular, its cube in shape, and it has the screw holes in side of the tank to put the controller for side access operation, and obviously its fully mounted in the middle of the cargo area.

Just wanted to know what you guys think is the best way going forward, is it really worth downsizing tank if i never fill it to the top, is it worth the £££ to have a lighter tank? Does the size if the tank really matter, isnt it more the weight if the water? I dont want to spend lots of money and create more work when the difference is not noticeable. The way is see it is more the size, in other words less space in the van being the only caveat.

Im getting crazy quotes to have a new downsized tank delivered, and was looking at the caged 500L tank from purefreedom which would be more ideal.

 

[ched999uk]

I'm not really sure what you would accomplish by getting a smaller tank other than a smaller bank balance. You say you don't need the space, so why spend quite large sums for just a smaller capacity?
That is as long as you have the space to mount your reel out the side door.

 

[TimsScrims]

I'm not really sure what you would accomplish by getting a smaller tank other than a smaller bank balance. You say you don't need the space, so why spend quite large sums for just a smaller capacity?
That is as long as you have the space to mount your reel out the side door.

I know not a huge difference but surely the extra 250-300L of empty tank is extra unnecessary weight, but yes I see what you mean. The extra space would be nice, but moving the power reel to the side is still going to create quite a bit of space in the back

 

[Part Timer]

When you say rear door access is no longer suitable are you saying when you are working the rear doors are left open?
Just get some under floor rollers then you can keep the door shut when working

 

[spruce]

15 years ago I purchased a 650 litre Wydale upright tank @TimsScrims These days I do what you do as I haven't the energy or the strength to work a full day. I don't fill the tank up.
I wouldn't spend any more money getting and fitting a smaller tank.

My son works with me mostly these days. We have 2 petal hose reels with wheels we lift our the back and plug them into rear van ports. This works for us. If a leak starts then the water stays outside the van.

I would have thought that fitting a fixed hose reel at the side door would create a trip hazard for people walking past while you are pulling out your hose.
You also have a restriction of how you park. I could only see you being able to park at a customers driveway entrance for a straight pull to the back of the house.

We close the back doors while we are working. It saves then being blown about by the wind. It also stops any inquisitive people looking at what's in the van.

 

[Den]

I have fixed hose reels from side and rear, I’m now working solely on my own this arrangement works good for me. I do use the side door reel more than the rear.

 

[TimsScrims]

15 years ago I purchased a 650 litre Wydale upright tank @TimsScrims These days I do what you do as I haven't the energy or the strength to work a full day. I don't fill the tank up.
I wouldn't spend any more money getting and fitting a smaller tank.

My son works with me mostly these days. We have 2 petal hose reels with wheels we lift our the back and plug them into rear van ports. This works for us. If a leak starts then the water stays outside the van.

I would have thought that fitting a fixed hose reel at the side door would create a trip hazard for people walking past while you are pulling out your hose.
You also have a restriction of how you park. I could only see you being able to park at a customers driveway entrance for a straight pull to the back of the house.

We close the back doors while we are working. It saves then being blown about by the wind. It also stops any inquisitive people looking at what's in the van.

hi @spruce
yeah an xline 750L tank is massive and does take up majority of the van, im just wondering to downsize and be more compact so I can use the space for other non-work stuff. the space the 750L tank takes up is quite frustrating.

ever since I started WFP in 2015 ive always had power reels, I dread to think what manual reels feel like over 40 jobs in a day. also keep lifting the reel in and out. im all about efficiency and speed, like to bash as many jobs as I can out.

when you say a potential trip hazard...I get what you're saying, but up here where I work, it's a very small community. very little to dodge, even cars. half my work I get to drive on custies driveways. I was thinking of getting the pure freedom extendable hose guide for the side access to save on my van paintwork, but this will allow me to use the hose in most directions even if I am faced the wrong way. my current rear door workflow is just as much the palaver cos im next door someones house ive gotta pull out the hose walk back until ive got enough then walk back on myself towards the house, the same when I finish so I can reel in without obstructions, like tyres, so even in that sense I think itll be less work from the side door.

in terms of other safety concerns, I dont really understand, I have my power reel fixed on an xline platform, whenever I reel out the hose from the barn doors, yes the hose seems high, but when I stop it flops down vertically and stays there. ive NEVER had a problem with potential trip hazards even at that height, I dont think XLINE would sell them if this was a problem either, I think they've designed their reels like that, when you stop to ur first window, the reel comes to a slow stop rather than abruptly so a few inches more hose can come out from the reel to prevent and trip hazards.
Also people are friendly up here and respectful, they see a man working or got a hose coming out the van they stop and wait for you til you are ready, or if they don't see me they just cross the road, to be fair they did that when I was down in the south east as well haha

Another window cleaner up here operates his transporter with side access, funnily enough he has an old xline tank too, which is besides the point. I assume he opted for side door access for the same reasons I want to. It's the north coast, the winds can be brutal up here but still battle through. just fed up with my rear doors being caned. 3 times ive had to come home early because a wind gust had taken my barn doors and bent the other way so had to waste the rest of the day re-alligning them, and that is WITH a third party anchor in place. Sometimes even just opening the door as your trying to get the anchor in place, ive taken my hand off the operating barn door for 1 second and gust took it.....work day over! travel home with some rope tied down cos its impossible to shut again.

I'll just add aswell, yeah I do have van floor hose guide rollers, two in fact. But I dont like using them, im lazy and it slows me down, I dont want to keep going on my knees to thread a hose through 2 rollers between every job, its different if you're on a job for like 1 hour, or your doing big contract work. up here isnt a security issue either, so never need to lock my doors. Even If someone tried it on, everyone knows everyone up here anyway and would be found out.

 

[TimsScrims]

I have fixed hose reels from side and rear, I’m now working solely on my own this arrangement works good for me. I do use the side door reel more than the rear.

hi @Den
yeah I thought about that too especially as ive two power reels and mounts, but I really want to stop using my rear barn doors now before they get any worse. Even IF I moulded more latches for my rear door to stop up from bending the wrong way due to a bad wind gust or whatever, its just not good for the van, in terms of aerodynamics, its acting like a sail for a boat. I've got a fair few jobs right on the coastline, its very very rare when its a calm none windy day.

and yes I can imagine you would use your side access a bit more compared to rear.
the only problem I think I may come up with on a couple streets I have where ive got customers opposite each other but spaced out, but I really think for me and my circumstances/workflow theres more pros than cons changing to side door. not one set up is perfect and ticks all the boxes.

 

[spruce]

hi @spruce
yeah an xline 750L tank is massive and does take up majority of the van, im just wondering to downsize and be more compact so I can use the space for other non-work stuff. the space the 750L tank takes up is quite frustrating.

ever since I started WFP in 2015 ive always had power reels, I dread to think what manual reels feel like over 40 jobs in a day. also keep lifting the reel in and out. im all about efficiency and speed, like to bash as many jobs as I can out.

when you say a potential trip hazard...I get what you're saying, but up here where I work, it's a very small community. very little to dodge, even cars. half my work I get to drive on custies driveways. I was thinking of getting the pure freedom extendable hose guide for the side access to save on my van paintwork, but this will allow me to use the hose in most directions even if I am faced the wrong way. my current rear door workflow is just as much the palaver cos im next door someones house ive gotta pull out the hose walk back until ive got enough then walk back on myself towards the house, the same when I finish so I can reel in without obstructions, like tyres, so even in that sense I think itll be less work from the side door.

in terms of other safety concerns, I dont really understand, I have my power reel fixed on an xline platform, whenever I reel out the hose from the barn doors, yes the hose seems high, but when I stop it flops down vertically and stays there. ive NEVER had a problem with potential trip hazards even at that height, I dont think XLINE would sell them if this was a problem either, I think they've designed their reels like that, when you stop to ur first window, the reel comes to a slow stop rather than abruptly so a few inches more hose can come out from the reel to prevent and trip hazards.
Also people are friendly up here and respectful, they see a man working or got a hose coming out the van they stop and wait for you til you are ready, or if they don't see me they just cross the road, to be fair they did that when I was down in the south east as well haha

Another window cleaner up here operates his transporter with side access, funnily enough he has an old xline tank too, which is besides the point. I assume he opted for side door access for the same reasons I want to. It's the north coast, the winds can be brutal up here but still battle through. just fed up with my rear doors being caned. 3 times ive had to come home early because a wind gust had taken my barn doors and bent the other way so had to waste the rest of the day re-alligning them, and that is WITH a third party anchor in place. Sometimes even just opening the door as your trying to get the anchor in place, ive taken my hand off the operating barn door for 1 second and gust took it.....work day over! travel home with some rope tied down cos its impossible to shut again.

I'll just add aswell, yeah I do have van floor hose guide rollers, two in fact. But I dont like using them, im lazy and it slows me down, I dont want to keep going on my knees to thread a hose through 2 rollers between every job, its different if you're on a job for like 1 hour, or your doing big contract work. up here isnt a security issue either, so never need to lock my doors. Even If someone tried it on, everyone knows everyone up here anyway and would be found out.

Wow. What you say makes sense for your round.
As the old saying goes: one man's meat is another man's poison.

The wind in the east coast is a problem and one of the reasons why we don't leave our back barn doors open.

Looking at our round I can't see how working from the side door would work on our round.

Many years ago a van came into the Reg Vardy body shop with one of the hinges torn away from a gust of wind.

I was talking to a fellow window cleaner yesterday who has a double stack p/f manual hose reels fixed in the rear. He works with his doors open. He pulls out all the hose he needs onto the road behind his van and then drags it around the back. Yesterday he had a lot of extra hose in the road which passing cars ran over.

The locking mechanism keeping his van doors open is much better than the ones Peugeot, or should I say Fiat, use.

I watched another windie with a power reel do the same a couple of weeks ago. For me I can't see myself working like that.

But if it works for that other cleaner as well, then it could well work for you.

I get what you are saying regarding the tank. But it's the extra extra expense I was thinking of.

 

[steve garwood]

I have two reels, each bolted to the frame of the tank, each facing both side doors, both of which go through rollers so are low enough not to cause any trip hazards.
All my previous vans had the reels at the back. I would never go back to that method personally

 

[Iron Giant]

in terms of other safety concerns, I dont really understand, I have my power reel fixed on an xline platform, whenever I reel out the hose from the barn doors, yes the hose seems high, but when I stop it flops down vertically and stays there. ive NEVER had a problem with potential trip hazards even at that height, I dont think XLINE would sell them if this was a problem either, I think they've designed their reels like that, when you stop to ur first window, the reel comes to a slow stop rather than abruptly so a few inches more hose can come out from the reel to prevent and trip hazards.
Also people are friendly up here and respectful, they see a man working or got a hose coming out the van they stop and wait for you til you are ready, or if they don't see me they just cross the road, to be fair they did that when I was down in the south east as well haha

Another window cleaner up here operates his transporter with side access, funnily enough he has an old xline tank too, which is besides the point. I assume he opted for side door access for the same reasons I want to. It's the north coast, the winds can be brutal up here but still battle through. just fed up with my rear doors being caned. 3 times ive had to come home early because a wind gust had taken my barn doors and bent the other way so had to waste the rest of the day re-alligning them, and that is WITH a third party anchor in place.

https://waterworkswindowcleaning.co.uk/product/waterworks-security-pulley/ is what you need I have maybe 12" from my tank to the back doors and have offset mine to avoid the spare wheel I'd have thought you could easily fit these rollers in your van, you just need a hole cutter to cut a hole in the van floor file the edges off and paint then drill through the floor for the bolts it's a fairly easy job to fit them.

 

[ched999uk]

I'll just add aswell, yeah I do have van floor hose guide rollers, two in fact. But I dont like using them, im lazy and it slows me down, I dont want to keep going on my knees to thread a hose through 2 rollers between every job, its different if you're on a job for like 1 hour, or your doing big contract work.

I have floor rollers but I don't reel in the full length of hose after each job. I leave enough pole hose to go round the back bumper and back into the rear load compartment and close the rear door on it. That way I don't have to rethread the hose through the guides at all during the day. So they don't slow me down at all, but I am vary wary of security as I had way too many cars broken into or stolen back in the late 80's early 90's, so I always lock the van doors even on customers driveways.

 

[Iron Giant]

I have floor rollers but I don't reel in the full length of hose after each job. I leave enough pole hose to go round the back bumper and back into the rear load compartment and close the rear door on it. That way I don't have to rethread the hose through the guides at all during the day. So they don't slow me down at all, but I am vary wary of security as I had way too many cars broken into or stolen back in the late 80's early 90's, so I always lock the van doors even on customers driveways.

Same here mate, I'm getting too old to get down on my knees multiple times in the day and I'm very security conscious

 

[ched999uk]

Same here mate, I'm getting too old to get down on my knees multiple times in the day and I'm very security conscious

Me too

 

[TimsScrims]

I have floor rollers but I don't reel in the full length of hose after each job. I leave enough pole hose to go round the back bumper and back into the rear load compartment and close the rear door on it. That way I don't have to rethread the hose through the guides at all during the day. So they don't slow me down at all, but I am vary wary of security as I had way too many cars broken into or stolen back in the late 80's early 90's, so I always lock the van doors even on customers driveways.

Ah yes, I must say I havent tried doing that before, good suggestion. The problem is my barn doors are knackered, the dominant door has dropped slightly due to the few times the wind gusts catching it and bending it back, no matter how many times I try to re-allign the doors they'll never be the same, I cringe every time I have to open/close them. sorry to hear about your vehicle vandalism, sadly the world we live in.

 

[TimsScrims]

https://waterworkswindowcleaning.co.uk/product/waterworks-security-pulley/ is what you need I have maybe 12" from my tank to the back doors and have offset mine to avoid the spare wheel I'd have thought you could easily fit these rollers in your van, you just need a hole cutter to cut a hole in the van floor file the edges off and paint then drill through the floor for the bolts it's a fairly easy job to fit them.

Thanks, but I already have 2 xline floor rollers fitted. Ive never liked using them if im honest.I also find that with my xline power reel it coils a lot more using the floor hose guide which is frustrating.
I may try what was suggested and keep the hose through the hose guide but shut the pole hose in the rear of the van when driving until I finally figure out what to do more longterm.

 

[ched999uk]

Just had a thought!
For the people who work out of the side of their van, do you have to open the rear doors to put your pole away or does it fit diagonally from the side door back?

 

[spruce]

Just had a thought!
For the people who work out of the side of their van, do you have to open the rear doors to put your pole away or does it fit diagonally from the side door back?

Good question.

For those who have a hose reel at the back and another at the side sliding door, where do you mount your controllers?

 

[steve garwood]

Just had a thought!
For the people who work out of the side of their van, do you have to open the rear doors to put your pole away or does it fit diagonally from the side door back?

Nope. My rollers are fitted facing both sides, so I just put the poles away using the side doors.
I don’t have to disconnect anything.
My controller is also just inside the side door.

 

[TimsScrims]

Good question.

For those who have a hose reel at the back and another at the side sliding door, where do you mount your controllers?

On the xline xtank there are mount fixings on the tank for rear and side fixings. If not im sure your local fabricator could muster something up.
This is my 3rd world problem, my xtank is a self contained unit, can hold battery, pump, controllers and can even mount a raised platform to the tank mount for less bending down (im gonna need a fabricator to muster up a raised platform for side access which can be hoisted to the mount inbetween bulkhead and tank). But ive got a 2 man 750L tank which is overkill for my needs, as i only use about 400L in a day now, i know it may sound petty, but the empty plastic of the tank still weighs a lot, so consantly carrying dead weight. People have said on here ‘save your money’ or along those lines, but im spending more on fuel carrying dead weight and have less space in the van to do other work stuff in, transporting bulky items, putting bikes in, yada yada.

Im really drawn to the pure freedom 500L mounted system which includes the powder coated cage/mounts that seem to be customisable, looks like the ultimate space saver cos u can have the reel mounted ontop of the tank and pushed up right against bulkhead.

 

[Nicky]

Nope. My rollers are fitted facing both sides, so I just put the poles away using the side doors.
I don’t have to disconnect anything.
My controller is also just inside the side door.

Can you post a picture of your set up please as I’m getting a new van and going to work out of the side door
Thanks