1000ltr tank

[Dave Shaw]

 
 
 
 
 
Well said spruce peopke have no idear the risks that they are taking , personally I would like to see the mot test look at fittings on all commercial vechles and unless an engineers report states that it’s fitted properly it should be a fail 

I would have thought that calculation only applies if the weight was loose and not strapped down. In my opinion both methods can be as dangerous as each other and your load is as safe as the person driving. Until both methods have been tested side by side this argument will go on and on. Instead of arguing over which method is best you should be giving information on driving safely. Although hgv drivers use these straps on a daily basis with a lot heavier loads and they are deemed safe?


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[Part Timer]

I would have thought that calculation only applies if the weight was loose and not strapped down. In my opinion both methods can be as dangerous as each other and your load is as safe as the person driving. Until both methods have been tested side by side this argument will go on and on. Instead of arguing over which method is best you should be giving information on driving safely. Although hgv drivers use these straps on a daily basis with a lot heavier loads and they are deemed safe?


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They are used on heavier but stable loads,  a three quarters full unbaffled IBC is anything but stable. With the water sloshing around the weight is multiplied and is much harder to stop. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

Very true but if you crash at 70 with a tonne of water, even a bolted down frame with a backing plate would just tear your van floor like paper anyway.


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[con95a]

I have a question about barrels, a few have posted pictures of a van with a number of 25l barrels that aren't secured in any way. If you've got 12+ barrels (about 300 litres) and you had a crash would they not cause an issue too all flying towards the front? I only ask because this will be what I'll likely have to do at the beginning.

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[High-tower]

anything unsecured is dangerous. you can simply secure barrels with a suitable ratchet strap passed through the handles on the barrels and through the load eyes in the van.

 

[Nudel]

I used a ratchet strap around four and four sets of barrels before I got a tank. That helped immensely on them moving about.

 

[Part Timer]

Very true but if you crash at 70 with a tonne of water, even a bolted down frame with a backing plate would just tear your van floor like paper anyway.


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Very true but you would do well to survive at that speed without the tank in the back. At the end of the day anyone that wants to transport a tonne of water behind their seat that is unsecured and makes the van overloaded is up to them. I personally put my well being above the cost of bolting a 650l tank in and staying within the limits of the law and my insurance policy. Obviously some people will risk there well being and break the law to save a few quid.

 

[The Professor]

Some very good valued points on this,
A couple of things to add to the If’s, And’s and Maybe’s to clarify the questions that maybe you should have asked rather than slating me about my setup!

1. My van is fully insured with this ibc in the rear,
2. The vehicle has been on a weigh bridge and is not overweight,
3. I know a guy who is employed by the ministry and has been consulted and consulted until he is bored of being consulted about this subject before I fitted the tank into the van,
Otherwise the tank would not have been fitted,

Although I have been called a thick window cleaner,
I do have some common sense when driving around and drive according to the vehicle I am driving and whatever the different road /traffic conditions are and in a safe manner,








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[The Professor]

It was a member of the general public who called me a thick window cleaner, no one on here [emoji23]


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[Pjj]

Very true but you would do well to survive at that speed without the tank in the back. At the end of the day anyone that wants to transport a tonne of water behind their seat that is unsecured and makes the van overloaded is up to them. I personally put my well being above the cost of bolting a 650l tank in and staying within the limits of the law and my insurance policy. Obviously some people will risk there well being and break the law to save a few quid.

Couldnt have put it better myself well said that man ?

 

[Pjj]

Some very good valued points on this,
A couple of things to add to the If’s, And’s and Maybe’s to clarify the questions that maybe you should have asked rather than slating me about my setup!

1. My van is fully insured with this ibc in the rear,
2. The vehicle has been on a weigh bridge and is not overweight,
3. I know a guy who is employed by the ministry and has been consulted and consulted until he is bored of being consulted about this subject before I fitted the tank into the van,
Otherwise the tank would not have been fitted,

Although I have been called a thick window cleaner,
I do have some common sense when driving around and drive according to the vehicle I am driving and whatever the different road /traffic conditions are and in a safe manner,








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I dont don’t mean to be rude or cause offence , I find it hard to believe that an insurance company will insure a 1000 ltr tank held in with rachet straps and full of water when I came to insure mine they wanted an engineers report stating that it was baffled and bolted through the floor attached to the chassis with reinforcing plates , If you don’t specify what you are doing they will view it as carrage of goods , if they realise you are a window cleaner they won’t cover you , or they wouldn’t me when I enqured 4 years ago , I have two vans insured with Alexandra swan and both vehicles are coverd with an engineering report and insured as such , many people don’t declare things as they really are to get cheap insurance thinking that they are getting away with it but if they come to make a claim then problems will ensue a couple of windy sneer me have found this out to there cost , 

payload Ime not sure what the exact model you have but most vivaros and traffics are a maximum of 2.9 tons gross vehicle weight so a 1000 ltr of water weighs a ton on its own then you have deisel  in the van , then two people hoses poles ladder + any thing else then there’s the weight of the ibc tank it’s self I do t know how you are under weight ???? I certainly was over with mine by several hundred kg which was why I got bigger vans , having seen people crushed to death in vans with insecure loads I feel the need to speak out to try and offer some advice from life that I have experienced , there was a lad killed I , Ime sure you are a safe driver but it doesn’t have to be your fault in an accident usually it’s someone else but it will still affect your health that’s all Ime trying to point out sorry if this has caused offence as I do t mean to 

 

[Bumblebee72]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1661&bih=904&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=PF5rWqurEcGxkwXA37jwCA&q=van+payload+crash+test&oq=van+payload+crash+test&gs_l=psy-ab.12...50729.56558.0.59650.16.16.0.0.0.0.89.992.16.16.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.8.536...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i5i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i24k1.0._KelZCcu4u4#imgrc=fMWHuhd9QkqvSM:

Take a look at this van/payload crash test.  The payload was no-where near a ton.

Would you feel safe sitting in front of a ton of water moving at even 30 miles an hour and then have the van stop dead in a head on crash?  You would survive the crash because your seat belt will save you, but it won't stop a ton of water surging forward at 30mph.  The cargo straps are presumably attached to the cage - that would crumple like plasticine and the tank itself has no strength - it will burst.

 

[The Professor]

I do appreciate what you are saying and your valued points,
These IBC’s are designed for the transportation and storage of bulk fluid safely,
Commercial vehicles are designed to carry such goods,
Do you not think they have thought about vehicles having accidents whilst transporting them and been approved as safe,

Using the proper securing devices to ensure the load is secure,

No matter what goods/items you are carrying in the rear they will with no doubt in an accident have an extra implication on the outcome of the accident when you are carrying any substantial weight in them,

An accident in a vehicle with a framed and bolted baffled tank carrying 850ltr’s of water would(if,but,maybe) end up in the same predicament if involved in an accident,








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[Part Timer]

They are designed to be delivered full or empty, not anything inbetween. It starts to become dangerous when the level starts to drop and you get the sloshing around. In a baffled tank the water is separated by the baffles and is therefore lighter and the sloshing is a lot more restricted. I appreciate you have your own beliefs but baffled tanks wouldn't have been invented if there were no safety benefits. 

 

[HollasSpecialistCleaningSystems]

If you are still going to use an ibc you could at least baffle it yourself using a variety of methods. I’m sure there was a thread about it on here but someone fed loads of 4”flexible plastic piping with holes drilled in. A company I used to work for used ibc tanks and they bought specially designed baffle balls your drop in the top. Just tried to find the thread but also found a video of a guy using kids ballpool balls


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[Duncs]

i,m sure the IBC tanks are designed to be on floors not in the back of vans,thats why eveyone is using baffled tanks

its a scary issue carrying the volume of water in the vans.

Some great advice for everyone to learn from.Everything is ok until there is  a accident,just takes some doylum to step in front of you

and you have to stop

 

[Cghwindowcleaning]

This debate could go on for ever.

It's down to the individual.

My opinions on this are not aimed at the posters on this thread just my general thoughts.

Any one that straps an ibc tank in believes it is completely fine but there is a reason they are so cheap.

Take away the safety aspect the fact your driving around with 1 ton of water in a unbaffled tank I would think you would go through tyres and brakes like anything.

Tank frames are not just there to hold the tank in place they are designed to absorb energy in a crash and stop it moving.

Grippa,pure freedom and ionics sent their  tanks to be tested at thatcham and mira and it concluded that it was far safer in one of their frames than without.You can watch the video on youtube or on their sites.

All that aside I personally think it comes down to money and  people just don't want to spend it.

If you have 2 men going through 1000 litres of water from 1 van then I would expect that van do be turning over upwards of £400+vat a day.It would cost under 2 weeks money to earn the cost of the system back.If there was just 10% chance it could save you in a crash it's a no brainer really.

 

[Dave Shaw]

So after all this which is scientifically proven to be safer,
A 5 tonne strap or a metal cage?
And are they safer being fitted using the manufacturers harness points or after market modifications?


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[The Professor]

God forbid I fill my traditional windy bucket up without a bolted down frame around it in the back of my van, [emoji23][emoji23]


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[The Professor]

Just watched the pure freedom mira crash test!
Wow!!
Thankfully I know now my £2k tank would survive a 30 mph head on crash!
even though I’m brown bread!




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[Pjj]

I would have thought that calculation only applies if the weight was loose and not strapped down. In my opinion both methods can be as dangerous as each other and your load is as safe as the person driving. Until both methods have been tested side by side this argument will go on and on. Instead of arguing over which method is best you should be giving information on driving safely. Although hgv drivers use these straps on a daily basis with a lot heavier loads and they are deemed safe?


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5 10 15 20 ton rachet straps are only as good as the fixing point there is no van on the market that has strong enough tie down points to stop a 1000 ltr tank from moving in the event of an accident doesn’t mater what straps you use , articulated trucks have a totally different system to attach rachet straps to and are designed to take many tones weight also the head boards on flat bed trailers are generally reinforced to stop or greatly reduce the likelihood of what it is carrying moving forward but Evan if it does you have a lot more room between the trailer and the cab that the driver is in not like a panel van . As has already been said any accident that happens isn’t nessasarily your fault there are a lot of people injured and killed each year who were driving along quite safely and some idiot crashes into them . I was just trying to get people to realise the potential dangers to them and there staff I certainly was not intending to upset or demean anyone or there working practise , or criticise there van set up I have a background of the motor industry and 30 years in the Fireservice so was just trying to pass on my first hand experience of what can happen when things go wrong , and sadly they go wrong far more often than a lot realise