1000ltr tank

[The Professor]

 
 
 
 
 
 
5 10 15 20 ton rachet straps are only as good as the fixing point there is no van on the market that has strong enough tie down points to stop a 1000 ltr tank from moving in the event of an accident doesn’t mater what straps you use , articulated trucks have a totally different system to attach rachet straps to and are designed to take many tones weight also the head boards on flat bed trailers are generally reinforced to stop or greatly reduce the likelihood of what it is carrying moving forward but Evan if it does you have a lot more room between the trailer and the cab that the driver is in not like a panel van . As has already been said any accident that happens isn’t nessasarily your fault there are a lot of people injured and killed each year who were driving along quite safely and some idiot crashes into them . I was just trying to get people to realise the potential dangers to them and there staff I certainly was not intending to upset or demean anyone or there working practise , or criticise there van set up I have a background of the motor industry and 30 years in the Fireservice so was just trying to pass on my first hand experience of what can happen when things go wrong , and sadly they go wrong far more often than a lot realise 

Pjj don’t worry mate, I do get what your saying and know you didn’t mean to intentionally upset or demean anyone,
I realise all the potential risks,
I myself have RHA transport managers cpc from my years in logistics industry,

That pure freedom tank crash test is worth a watch if you haven’t already seen it?
I just dont think any crash with any water tank framed and bolted or strapped there would be a good outcome,



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[Part Timer]

Pjj don’t worry mate, I do get what your saying and know you didn’t mean to intentionally upset or demean anyone,
I realise all the potential risks,
I myself have RHA transport managers cpc from my years in logistics industry,

That pure freedom tank crash test is worth a watch if you haven’t already seen it?
I just dont think any crash with any water tank framed and bolted or strapped there would be a good outcome,



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What you actually don't understand is that the fact you have an IBC is the most dangerous part. You will be far safer if you have a baffled tank strapped in, not as safe as a bolted one though. It is the mass inertia generated in breaking that is the biggest danger and the main reason why you might crash. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

Great info guys and I’ve had a real insight into the dangers of carrying large volumes of water. At the min I’m using a 350litre flat tank pushed up to my second row of back seats and is strapped down using two 5 tonne straps to four harness points. I know now this is not ideal but it’s all I can afford at this time. (It’s funny how company’s will sell you this equipment but offer no advice on safety). After the vids I’ve watched it’s like walking into a shop and buying a loaded weapon. A new van is on the agenda next year and I’m thinking of gettin a pro system pre installed. Has anyone got a list of certified engineers that are insurance approved that fit such systems? I’ve been looking at some van + system finance options through wcw. Are these any good as you can also trade in your old van? Don’t wanna be spending all that cash to find out it’s no safer than I’ve already got and also uninsurable.


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[Dave B]

Great info guys and I’ve had a real insight into the dangers of carrying large volumes of water. At the min I’m using a 350litre flat tank pushed up to my second row of back seats and is strapped down using two 5 tonne straps to four harness points. I know now this is not ideal but it’s all I can afford at this time. (It’s funny how company’s will sell you this equipment but offer no advice on safety). After the vids I’ve watched it’s like walking into a shop and buying a loaded weapon. A new van is on the agenda next year and I’m thinking of gettin a pro system pre installed. Has anyone got a list of certified engineers that are insurance approved that fit such systems? I’ve been looking at some van + system finance options through wcw. Are these any good as you can also trade in your old van? Don’t wanna be spending all that cash to find out it’s no safer than I’ve already got and also uninsurable.


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I would be wary of wcw unless they secure the tank better than the ones they supply 

They sell the facelift compact system with self tapping bolts to put through the floor with no spreader plates or anything which I think is very irresponsible as they would just tear out in a smash

 

[Den]

I would be wary of wcw unless they secure the tank better than the ones they supply 

They sell the facelift compact system with self tapping bolts to put through the floor with no spreader plates or anything which I think is very irresponsible as they would just tear out in a smash

Yes Dave is Right, I eventually had my compact 325 installed with bolts and spreader plates didn't take very long to do and now much safer. 

 

[Pjj]

Great info guys and I’ve had a real insight into the dangers of carrying large volumes of water. At the min I’m using a 350litre flat tank pushed up to my second row of back seats and is strapped down using two 5 tonne straps to four harness points. I know now this is not ideal but it’s all I can afford at this time. (It’s funny how company’s will sell you this equipment but offer no advice on safety). After the vids I’ve watched it’s like walking into a shop and buying a loaded weapon. A new van is on the agenda next year and I’m thinking of gettin a pro system pre installed. Has anyone got a list of certified engineers that are insurance approved that fit such systems? I’ve been looking at some van + system finance options through wcw. Are these any good as you can also trade in your old van? Don’t wanna be spending all that cash to find out it’s no safer than I’ve already got and also uninsurable.


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Ionics and grippatank are recognised dont know about others 

 

[Clisty1989]

I'd never have a tank strap in. A strap rated 2ton is rated for a STATIC STABLE load, in a crash your pulling 20+g, so a 1ton load will weigh 20+ tons. Add the effect of water sloshing about making it unstable. IBC containers are designed to go in commercial vehicles rated at 7.5 ton and above, as the brakes are designed for that amount of weight and force, held with straps rated 10ton+, and the points rated similar. Plus hgvs bulkheads are a lot stronger than any van, and designed to take the hit. Having secured loads in excess of 30ton I know straps are not the best thing to use, in a van it's just plain dangerous and daft.

 

[The Professor]

The End



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[Jago]

May I summarize?

JUST DONT CRASH 

 

[Neilmnwc]

I’ve found some useful info on how to find out the overall mass of an object moving in a vehicle at speed.

If you don’t click the link it’s :
Velocity x Mass = Overall mass.

1000kg at 40mph will weigh 40tons (40,000kg)
There’s not a lashing strap or lashing eye strong enough for that. Frightening really.

http://www.roadsafetyknowledgecentre.org.uk/help-forum/473.html

Hope that helps.


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[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

@kevinc250 there is no evidence that the lad was or was not 'crushed' by a tank in the back of the van.  Just that a window cleaner died in a road collision.  

The story is fast becoming urban myth and it tyring hearing it being cited as a source of reference with no evidence to back it up. 

However I do agree with you that 1000L IBC in the back of a tank is not a smart idea. 

Also all this talk of tanks ripping up floors and flying through bulk heads etc can only be an extreme worst case scenario.  Say 70 mph head on into a vehicle of equal weight and speed.   99.9% of all crashes are not an instant stop at all. You hit something or be hit by something and there will still be plenty of travel before you come to a stop and all energy is dissipated. 

About 5 years back I bought a Brodex (excuse the foul language) 500L system used off a lad in Birmingham.  This was the type they did by connecting 2 x 250L tanks together.  

It was in the back of a totalled Vivaro.  They had been doing 50 - 60 mph when a van pulled across them from a junction.  They hit it 50/50 with no reaction time to brake and the passenger side taking the brunt of the smash. The van did what it's designed to.  Crumple zones crumpled.  Passenger air bag deployed and when all the carnage was finished the lad in the passenger seat had a black eye from the air bag. 

I bought the tanks and had to get under the van to remove the bolts from the chassis.  The frame was still perfectly straight and not the slightest bit of damage to the tanks.  

AGAIN I WILL SAY IT.... all this talk of 'crash tested tanks'  is a bit moot anyhow as they are only tested to 30mph.  And in a head on sledge only type scenario.   So they're perfect if you're going to drive a rock solid sledge into a reinforced concrete wall at 30mph but how often do you envisage that happening (I do agree that some testing is better than none) 

We are also assuming that the vehicle operator is trying to drive like a WRC champ and without regard to the load carried. 

Anyway I still agree with @kevinc250 that a 1000l ibc with straps is not the smartest plan around. 

 

[Pjj]

@kevinc250 there is no evidence that the lad was or was not 'crushed' by a tank in the back of the van.  Just that a window cleaner died in a road collision.  

The story is fast becoming urban myth and it tyring hearing it being cited as a source of reference with no evidence to back it up. 

However I do agree with you that 1000L IBC in the back of a tank is not a smart idea. 

Also all this talk of tanks ripping up floors and flying through bulk heads etc can only be an extreme worst case scenario.  Say 70 mph head on into a vehicle of equal weight and speed.   99.9% of all crashes are not an instant stop at all. You hit something or be hit by something and there will still be plenty of travel before you come to a stop and all energy is dissipated. 

About 5 years back I bought a Brodex (excuse the foul language) 500L system used off a lad in Birmingham.  This was the type they did by connecting 2 x 250L tanks together.  

It was in the back of a totalled Vivaro.  They had been doing 50 - 60 mph when a van pulled across them from a junction.  They hit it 50/50 with no reaction time to brake and the passenger side taking the brunt of the smash. The van did what it's designed to.  Crumple zones crumpled.  Passenger air bag deployed and when all the carnage was finished the lad in the passenger seat had a black eye from the air bag. 

I bought the tanks and had to get under the van to remove the bolts from the chassis.  The frame was still perfectly straight and not the slightest bit of damage to the tanks.  

AGAIN I WILL SAY IT.... all this talk of 'crash tested tanks'  is a bit moot anyhow as they are only tested to 30mph.  And in a head on sledge only type scenario.   So they're perfect if you're going to drive a rock solid sledge into a reinforced concrete wall at 30mph but how often do you envisage that happening (I do agree that some testing is better than none) 

We are also assuming that the vehicle operator is trying to drive like a WRC champ and without regard to the load carried. 

Anyway I still agree with @kevinc250 that a 1000l ibc with straps is not the smartest plan around. 

@kevinc250 there is no evidence that the lad was or was not 'crushed' by a tank in the back of the van.  Just that a window cleaner died in a road collision.  

The story is fast becoming urban myth and it tyring hearing it being cited as a source of reference with no evidence to back it up. 

However I do agree with you that 1000L IBC in the back of a tank is not a smart idea. 

Also all this talk of tanks ripping up floors and flying through bulk heads etc can only be an extreme worst case scenario.  Say 70 mph head on into a vehicle of equal weight and speed.   99.9% of all crashes are not an instant stop at all. You hit something or be hit by something and there will still be plenty of travel before you come to a stop and all energy is dissipated. 

About 5 years back I bought a Brodex (excuse the foul language) 500L system used off a lad in Birmingham.  This was the type they did by connecting 2 x 250L tanks together.  

It was in the back of a totalled Vivaro.  They had been doing 50 - 60 mph when a van pulled across them from a junction.  They hit it 50/50 with no reaction time to brake and the passenger side taking the brunt of the smash. The van did what it's designed to.  Crumple zones crumpled.  Passenger air bag deployed and when all the carnage was finished the lad in the passenger seat had a black eye from the air bag. 

I bought the tanks and had to get under the van to remove the bolts from the chassis.  The frame was still perfectly straight and not the slightest bit of damage to the tanks.  

AGAIN I WILL SAY IT.... all this talk of 'crash tested tanks'  is a bit moot anyhow as they are only tested to 30mph.  And in a head on sledge only type scenario.   So they're perfect if you're going to drive a rock solid sledge into a reinforced concrete wall at 30mph but how often do you envisage that happening (I do agree that some testing is better than none) 

We are also assuming that the vehicle operator is trying to drive like a WRC champ and without regard to the load carried. 

Anyway I still agree with @kevinc250 that a 1000l ibc with straps is not the smartest plan around. 

Sadley there is evidenced that it was the tank that killed him that will become proven in time as it was a relative of a friend of mine , this is another reason That I have been so vocal on this subject hoping that others will learn from it and it won’t happen to any other family’s , I don’t want to say any more as the family are oviously very distraught abought there loss 

 

[Part Timer]

@Green Pro Clean Ltdthe fact they got out, virtually, without a scratch, tell you a fitted baffled water tank probably saved their lives.