Any other tin foil hat wearers?

[dazmond]

Katie Hopkins is an absolute *****....??

..

 

[Bart90]

Of course lockdowns work.....for slowing the spread and reducing infection rates....anybody who says different is a misguided fool.....the stats prove it in every country that's had a lockdown!

There is much debate around the effectiveness of lockdowns and there are many Scientists & Medical professionalls who do not support this goverments strategy. Lockdowns have never been a part of any pandemic planning in the UK , even up unitl March 2020.  It was started by China, a totalitarian state.  I hardly think people who question lockdowns are "Misguided Fools". Quite the opposite in fact.  I'd love to see the stats you reference.

I'd say it's pretty rational to question the purpose of a policy which cripples small businesses & destroys jobs, drives prople to suicide and leaves the Tax payer very little money for future funding of the NHS.  Meanwhile, deaths pile up from people unable to access treatment for other illnesses because the NHS has become a covid only service.  

There is no doubt the numbers have been manipulated; we will never know how many people really died of Covid v died with covid.  It's interesting to note that Influenza seems to have been cured this past 12 months. Excess deaths for 2020 were the highest since 2008.  There is no doubt the NHS is under strain at the moment, as it is every year, but to me that points to a government who has failed to properly fund it to account for situations like this year after year.  The media have been in utter hysteria, feeding the nation distorted figures.  My favourite mis leading article to date was from the BBC when they claimed in a headline that 2020 saw the highest number of excess deaths since the War!

Make up your own minds, but I really think people should be free to have differing opinions without being called fools.  This whole situation has caused a lot of hate in our nation and I think it's a shame we seem to have lost the ability to respectfully debate and disagree without resorting to insults.

 

[Part Timer]

There is much debate around the effectiveness of lockdowns and there are many Scientists & Medical professionalls who do not support this goverments strategy.

Make up your own minds, but I really think people should be free to have differing opinions without being called fool

Therein lies the problem, no one actually knows what's best. People can say what they want, many do so with hindsight. China shut a city down and sprayed everything for 2 weeks and didn't totally stop it. This couldn't happen here so we will have to accept that people will die, some due to Covid, some with Covid. I just wish he facts of actual deaths would be published but as an autopsy isn't required if Covid is mentioned on the death certificate we won't get them  

 

[ksp]

There is much debate around the effectiveness of lockdowns and there are many Scientists & Medical professionalls who do not support this goverments strategy. Lockdowns have never been a part of any pandemic planning in the UK , even up unitl March 2020.  It was started by China, a totalitarian state.  I hardly think people who question lockdowns are "Misguided Fools". Quite the opposite in fact.  I'd love to see the stats you reference.

I'd say it's pretty rational to question the purpose of a policy which cripples small businesses & destroys jobs, drives prople to suicide and leaves the Tax payer very little money for future funding of the NHS.  Meanwhile, deaths pile up from people unable to access treatment for other illnesses because the NHS has become a covid only service.  

There is no doubt the numbers have been manipulated; we will never know how many people really died of Covid v died with covid.  It's interesting to note that Influenza seems to have been cured this past 12 months. Excess deaths for 2020 were the highest since 2008.  There is no doubt the NHS is under strain at the moment, as it is every year, but to me that points to a government who has failed to properly fund it to account for situations like this year after year.  The media have been in utter hysteria, feeding the nation distorted figures.  My favourite mis leading article to date was from the BBC when they claimed in a headline that 2020 saw the highest number of excess deaths since the War!

Make up your own minds, but I really think people should be free to have differing opinions without being called fools.  This whole situation has caused a lot of hate in our nation and I think it's a shame we seem to have lost the ability to respectfully debate and disagree without resorting to insults.

We all agree there’s no need for insults and that’s probably reflective of the fact, like brexit, the topics become febrile it seeks most people are on one side or the other on the topic. Myself, I’ve fluctuated on the topic repeatedly. Initially, I thought we should lock down everything, then when it was clear in the first lockdown people were missing appointments for chemotherapy, I thought the healthy of us should be allowed out to get it whilst the vulnerable shield. That was until it was pointed out to me that once the virus has infected a certain percentage of the population it becomes almost impossible for those shielding to effectively shield. 
 

The fact that lockdowns reduce transmission and thus loss of life though has been shown since China locking down initially, as you mentioned.I don’t think that can be argued as correlation rather than causation. It’s not ideal but to let it run a natural course, the nhs would be overwhelmed regardless. I think the flu being almost eliminated is a benefit of the lockdown. It’s less transmissible than the corona virus and so I’d expect infection rates to be falling for that much further than covid.  
 

Honestly, I’m not sure about the excess deaths in 2008 so I just looked at the bbc article you mentioned and it seems their title was right in the context of loss of life but you’re referring to a process they call ‘age-standardised mortality’ that they use to interpret the data. In that same article, it explains that and on that metric, it’s the worst since 2008 although they don’t have the data for December. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-55631693

 

We’re in a **** situation, as window cleaners I’d hazard a guess we can all say we’ve got at least one customer, friend who have lost their job and/or business because of it. I don’t think there’s an ideal scenario for us now. For me, the government have been slow to lock down every time and the lock downs should have went on for longer. Then we could have ended up with just one lockdown, or if we give the government the benefit of the doubt, 2 lock downs as they needed to learn and adapt from the first. But until we have the most vulnerable protected, we should commit to the course now rather than come out too early again.

 

[P4dstar]

I used to be a proud tinfoil hat wearer, with the caveat that I was always open to a conspiracy being debunked. When Trump became president the mainstream media gave him a hard time. The truthers believed he was the messiah and would resolve all of the ills in the world. Even in the run up to the second election when he hadn't done some of the main things they were expecting (Like pardon Julian asange) they were insisting that he needed to be elected for a second term in order to take down the 'elite'. If you look a little closer though the truthers gave Obama a hard time for bombing other countries, when Trump did it last January they couldn't have been further behind him. This just shows they have an unmovable position, as does most of the mainstream media. Somewhere between David Icke and Sky news lies the truth, neither ends of the scale can be trusted IMO!

 

[Danfire]

Of course lockdowns work.....for slowing the spread and reducing infection rates....anybody who says different is a misguided fool.....the stats prove it in every country that's had a lockdown!

Japan?

 

[Bart90]

Honestly, I’m not sure about the excess deaths in 2008 so I just looked at the bbc article you mentioned and it seems their title was right in the context of loss of life but you’re referring to a process they call ‘age-standardised mortality’ that they use to interpret the data. In that same article, it explains that and on that metric, it’s the worst since 2008 although they don’t have the data for December. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-55631693

The headline was along the lines of  "2020; Highest Excess deaths since the War". Deliberately misleading.  When you factor in the age and population differences which needs to be done to make it a fair comparison, it was the highest excess death figure since 2008.  They were ridiculed for it afterwards & the article was edited.  

I think the flu being almost eliminated is a benefit of the lockdown. It’s less transmissible than the corona virus and so I’d expect infection rates to be falling for that much further than covid. 

When you factor in the deaths of people due to lockdowns, I think it's going to be a case of the cure is worse than the disease. Any loss of life is sad but the reality is the average age of death is 82 and if it hadn't been covid, it may have been pneumonia or flu or something else.  Sadly, death is a part of life.   I would suggest the reason the flu mortality figures are  so low is because they've been rebranded as Covid deaths. If social distancing, masks  etc were that effective in reducing flu, covid would not be running at 50k+ cases a day.  Flu deaths between jan-Aug 2020 were 394.  In an average year it's 15,000.  

One other thing that has also really niggled me has been the mask brigade.  Now out in force condeming anyone who refuses to wear one.  Up unitl 6 months ago, the goverment, Hancock, Witty, Valance were all telling us how weak the evidence was and how they do more harm than good. The evidence hasn't changed so why the policy?  People  touch surfaces then touch their masks not to mention the bacteria that gets trapped in there.  It's interesting watching the videos of what they were all saying prior to July on masks. If it wasn't so depressing it would be comical.

Anyway I'll leave it there. Like I say people can all make up their own minds and everyone is entitled to an opinion whatever it may be.  It's been a crazy year & lets hope life gets back to normal soon, at least we can all agree on that.

 

[ksp]

The headline was along the lines of  "2020; Highest Excess deaths since the War". Deliberately misleading.  When you factor in the age and population differences which needs to be done to make it a fair comparison, it was the highest excess death figure since 2008.  They were ridiculed for it afterwards & the article was edited.  

When you factor in the deaths of people due to lockdowns, I think it's going to be a case of the cure is worse than the disease. Any loss of life is sad but the reality is the average age of death is 82 and if it hadn't been covid, it may have been pneumonia or flu or something else.  Sadly, death is a part of life.   I would suggest the reason the flu mortality figures are  so low is because they've been rebranded as Covid deaths. If social distancing, masks  etc were that effective in reducing flu, covid would not be running at 50k+ cases a day.  Flu deaths between jan-Aug 2020 were 394.  In an average year it's 15,000.  

One other thing that has also really niggled me has been the mask brigade.  Now out in force condeming anyone who refuses to wear one.  Up unitl 6 months ago, the goverment, Hancock, Witty, Valance were all telling us how weak the evidence was and how they do more harm than good. The evidence hasn't changed so why the policy?  People  touch surfaces then touch their masks not to mention the bacteria that gets trapped in there.  It's interesting watching the videos of what they were all saying prior to July on masks. If it wasn't so depressing it would be comical.

Anyway I'll leave it there. Like I say people can all make up their own minds and everyone is entitled to an opinion whatever it may be.  It's been a crazy year & lets hope life gets back to normal soon, at least we can all agree on that.

In my initial reply I was going to say ‘it’s certainly click baity ’ but didn’t because of the fact it’s relating to peoples lives rather than statistics. However if you’re using number of deaths as the metric, it’s not a lie. 
 

There’s no doubt America and the U.K. both lied to the population in regards to masks at the start due to concerns over the populace competing against the government for masks. People touch their face without masks on, only then they’re touching their skin directly. I’m not sure about the cloth masks for preventing infection but it seems sensible to me that if you’re wearing a mask and have something contagious, it’ll help to reduce droplets coming from the mouth and nose as someone infected exhales. I know I’ve seen a few videos where it’s been explained much better than I can on why they’re used. 
 

I’d be certain some flu cases have been written down as covid, I’d still bet that if flu is 11000 annual average in the last 5 years in what was a normal social environment, 3 lockdowns in a year and the tangible effects they have on reducing transmissions would have a much greater effect in reducing transmissions of a less infective influenza. 
 

Amen. The sooner we are out the other side, the sooner we can get back to the pubs ?

 

[mike007]

Must admit I can not work out why the UK infection rate and deaths are so high when compared to other countries. 

The difference with the flu is that other than jabs for over 65 (or what ever) the mortality rate is relatively low. So hospitals cope with the 'normal' number of flu victims that we get.

The problem with Covid is the number of people catching it is very high, while most only get mild symptoms and some no symptoms at all, a small percentage have to be hospitalised. So even a small %  of a big number of infections is an issue. It's all down to NHS capacity - OK so you could say lack of investment but then we would have paid for capacity that was rarely needed. 

Bottom line is if we didn't have such high infection rate we would be fine.

Since 2012 and beginning of 2020 the NHS have lost a total of 17000 beds and every year the press have reported that it is at breaking point during the winter period. People forget the mainstream news reporting patients in corridors for hours waiting for beds to become vacant prior to Covid. Lack of funding by Governments to blame. They spout "save the NHS" when the job of NHS is to save us.

 

[mike007]

I was listening to a podcast where the guest has a book in which he proposes America should have 1 billion Americans to compete economically with China. He’s worked out that level of population, it would still have half the population density that the U.K. has right now. So presumably population density could be one? 
 

I agree with ched as the nhs is public ally funded it would be a gigantic waste of money to have too much spare capacity year on year. 
 

The government mishandled the start of the pandemic. I said weeks before the Cheltenham festival to anyone who’d hear it that it shouldn’t have went ahead, and I’m a moron. That couldn’t have helped, nor sending elderly patients with potential covid cases back to care homes.

It also appears now that if the government had closed the borders to all non essential travel and carried on with the first lockdown for longer, it could have almost eliminated it then proceeded with something closer to Australia and New Zealand. 

Isnt that woman leading the inept check and trace on the board of the Cheltenham race committee . And the Jockey club is in Hancocks constituency. Odd.

 

[mike007]

The headline was along the lines of  "2020; Highest Excess deaths since the War". Deliberately misleading.  When you factor in the age and population differences which needs to be done to make it a fair comparison, it was the highest excess death figure since 2008.  They were ridiculed for it afterwards & the article was edited.  

When you factor in the deaths of people due to lockdowns, I think it's going to be a case of the cure is worse than the disease. Any loss of life is sad but the reality is the average age of death is 82 and if it hadn't been covid, it may have been pneumonia or flu or something else.  Sadly, death is a part of life.   I would suggest the reason the flu mortality figures are  so low is because they've been rebranded as Covid deaths. If social distancing, masks  etc were that effective in reducing flu, covid would not be running at 50k+ cases a day.  Flu deaths between jan-Aug 2020 were 394.  In an average year it's 15,000.  

One other thing that has also really niggled me has been the mask brigade.  Now out in force condeming anyone who refuses to wear one.  Up unitl 6 months ago, the goverment, Hancock, Witty, Valance were all telling us how weak the evidence was and how they do more harm than good. The evidence hasn't changed so why the policy?  People  touch surfaces then touch their masks not to mention the bacteria that gets trapped in there.  It's interesting watching the videos of what they were all saying prior to July on masks. If it wasn't so depressing it would be comical.

Anyway I'll leave it there. Like I say people can all make up their own minds and everyone is entitled to an opinion whatever it may be.  It's been a crazy year & lets hope life gets back to normal soon, at least we can all agree on that.

And why does the Government refuse to publish a cost and benefit analysis of their actions???. If they did I strongly suspect it will prove most of their policies have been wrong and caused more harm than good.

In my initial reply I was going to say ‘it’s certainly click baity ’ but didn’t because of the fact it’s relating to peoples lives rather than statistics. However if you’re using number of deaths as the metric, it’s not a lie. 
 

There’s no doubt America and the U.K. both lied to the population in regards to masks at the start due to concerns over the populace competing against the government for masks. People touch their face without masks on, only then they’re touching their skin directly. I’m not sure about the cloth masks for preventing infection but it seems sensible to me that if you’re wearing a mask and have something contagious, it’ll help to reduce droplets coming from the mouth and nose as someone infected exhales. I know I’ve seen a few videos where it’s been explained much better than I can on why they’re used. 
 

I’d be certain some flu cases have been written down as covid, I’d still bet that if flu is 11000 annual average in the last 5 years in what was a normal social environment, 3 lockdowns in a year and the tangible effects they have on reducing transmissions would have a much greater effect in reducing transmissions of a less infective influenza. 
 

Amen. The sooner we are out the other side, the sooner we can get back to the pubs ?

But does the Government want to give up their powers!!!

 

[ksp]

And why does the Government refuse to publish a cost and benefit analysis of their actions???. If they did I strongly suspect it will prove most of their policies have been wrong and caused more harm than good.

But does the Government want to give up their powers!!!

I’m not adverse to ‘conspiracy theories’ for instance, despite what the WHO organisation said, the most plausible scenario to me after the Wuhan market isn’t that the virus came from an as yet unknown country on the back of frozen fish but that it’s come from the lab working on corona viruses a few hundred meters meters away. 
 

I understand we need to be vigilant to make sure the government don’t sneak in powers like they did to spy on everyone after 911. However, with this particular train of thought, To my eye, this government seem to have prolonged the length and spread of the virus in the U.K. by being too eager to get things back to normal as quickly as possible. 

 

[SSWC]

The headline was along the lines of  "2020; Highest Excess deaths since the War". Deliberately misleading.  When you factor in the age and population differences which needs to be done to make it a fair comparison, it was the highest excess death figure since 2008.  They were ridiculed for it afterwards & the article was edited.  

When you factor in the deaths of people due to lockdowns, I think it's going to be a case of the cure is worse than the disease. Any loss of life is sad but the reality is the average age of death is 82 and if it hadn't been covid, it may have been pneumonia or flu or something else.  Sadly, death is a part of life.   I would suggest the reason the flu mortality figures are  so low is because they've been rebranded as Covid deaths. If social distancing, masks  etc were that effective in reducing flu, covid would not be running at 50k+ cases a day.  Flu deaths between jan-Aug 2020 were 394.  In an average year it's 15,000.  

One other thing that has also really niggled me has been the mask brigade.  Now out in force condeming anyone who refuses to wear one.  Up unitl 6 months ago, the goverment, Hancock, Witty, Valance were all telling us how weak the evidence was and how they do more harm than good. The evidence hasn't changed so why the policy?  People  touch surfaces then touch their masks not to mention the bacteria that gets trapped in there.  It's interesting watching the videos of what they were all saying prior to July on masks. If it wasn't so depressing it would be comical.

Anyway I'll leave it there. Like I say people can all make up their own minds and everyone is entitled to an opinion whatever it may be.  It's been a crazy year & lets hope life gets back to normal soon, at least we can all agree on that.

The idea that lockdown will somehow cause more deaths is just a total nonsense. Firstly non covid deaths are down on the yearly average so that shows lockdown isn't causing more deaths. Secondly do you really think not locking down and allowing more covid to spread would have resulted in less deaths than we're seeing now? The entire notion is just ridiculous. 

As for flu it's already been pointed out to you that flu isn't as contagious as covid. The measures taken to suppress covid will obviously have had a massive impact on flu because it spreads the same way and is less contagious. It's simple stuff. 

And on masks I don't know if you remember but early on in the pandemic there was a massive, unprecedented rush globally by all nations to acquire PPE. Recommending the public joins that rush to buy PPE would have made it impossible for healthcare services to get the equipment they needed quickly. The science has never changed on masks, it's always been known they prevent the wearer expelling droplets whilst speaking or breathing. There's massive amounts of information pointing to that fact. Labelling people who want to be responsible and protect others the "mask brigade" is just pathetic, I'm betting you get the majority of your info from the likes of Hartley-Brewer and the other cranks with zero credibility?

The likes of you and all the other knackers buying into all of this disinformation has extended the suffering in this country unfortunately. You STILL don't seem to understand even the basics, over a year into this thing. Mental. 

 

[SSWC]

And why does the Government refuse to publish a cost and benefit analysis of their actions???. If they did I strongly suspect it will prove most of their policies have been wrong and caused more harm than good.

But does the Government want to give up their powers!!!

 Where is your cost benefit analysis for not implementing measures and not locking down when the NHS was on the brink of being overwhelmed? Have you forgotten what was happening before Christmas? Cases were doubling each week for **** sake. Do you really think NHS capacity just goes on forever and ever?

There seems to be a delusion amongst you lot thinking the choice is restrictions v normality when in reality the choice is restrictions v uncontrolled pandemic. We've already seen the effect tier 1 and 2 restrictions had on the new variant, it swept through unhindered, the lesser restrictions were useless. In that case would you just sit around and allow healthcare capacity to be overwhelmed? 

 

[SSWC]

Since 2012 and beginning of 2020 the NHS have lost a total of 17000 beds and every year the press have reported that it is at breaking point during the winter period. People forget the mainstream news reporting patients in corridors for hours waiting for beds to become vacant prior to Covid. Lack of funding by Governments to blame. They spout "save the NHS" when the job of NHS is to save us.

You're delusional it you think any amount of funding could keep up with admissions in a pandemic like this one. Especially if you don't implement any restrictions to lower the transmission rate. The old "every winter is like this" line is total ******** as well.

 

[SSWC]

Therein lies the problem, no one actually knows what's best. People can say what they want, many do so with hindsight. China shut a city down and sprayed everything for 2 weeks and didn't totally stop it. This couldn't happen here so we will have to accept that people will die, some due to Covid, some with Covid. I just wish he facts of actual deaths would be published but as an autopsy isn't required if Covid is mentioned on the death certificate we won't get them  

China is back to normal now and has been for ages. I have friends currently living and working in China and they're out partying in the bars every weekend. What they've done has worked, no doubt about it. 

I don't get your point on needing an autopsy to label a death as covid. A positive test isn't the only metric they use to define a covid death, the symptoms are obvious and along with a positive test I'm sure the medical staff are incredibly accurate in their diagnosing. After all they have trained for years upon years in this thing. 

I understand that everyone is sick but I really don't get this need to latch onto nonsense conspiracies in order to downplay the severity of the pandemic. Maybe it makes you feel better, **** knows. 

 

[Bart90]

And on masks I don't know if you remember but early on in the pandemic there was a massive, unprecedented rush globally by all nations to acquire PPE. Recommending the public joins that rush to buy PPE would have made it impossible for healthcare services to get the equipment they needed quickly. The science has never changed on masks, it's always been known they prevent the wearer expelling droplets whilst speaking or breathing. There's massive amounts of information pointing to that fact. Labelling people who want to be responsible and protect others the "mask brigade" is just pathetic, I'm betting you get the majority of your info from the likes of Hartley-Brewer and the other cranks with zero credibility?

I'm afraid you're simply wrong, the effectiveness of masks has always been a matter for debate (see 7:48 in the video).  Remember, it's a face covering, it doesn't have to be PPE.   You may find the below video a helpful reminder; their recommendations pre July weren't anything to do with PPE shortages.  

Apologies if my mask brigade comment offended you. By it, I simply mean the hardcore of people like yourself, who genuinely think they'll kill people if they don't wear one and believe anyone one who doesn't comply poses a health risk to others.  I'm happy for you to wear one, but don't tell me to wear one on weak and limited evidence when there is good reason not to for other health reasons.  If the Goverment had really wanted to do it they should have strongly advised people to wear them not made it law.  They've achieved a great deal through their media outlets in cowering people into compliance and I'm sure that would have done the trick without criminialising those of us who can assess the evidence for ourselves and make rational decisions.  

Do the scientists and medical professionals who signed the Great Barrington declaration fall into your category of cranks with zero credibility?

Your general tone really highlights my point about this whole debate. 

 

[Part Timer]

China is back to normal now and has been for ages. I have friends currently living and working in China and they're out partying in the bars every weekend. What they've done has worked, no doubt about it. 

I don't get your point on needing an autopsy to label a death as covid. A positive test isn't the only metric they use to define a covid death, the symptoms are obvious and along with a positive test I'm sure the medical staff are incredibly accurate in their diagnosing. After all they have trained for years upon years in this thing. 

I understand that everyone is sick but I really don't get this need to latch onto nonsense conspiracies in order to downplay the severity of the pandemic. Maybe it makes you feel better, **** knows. 

Let's start at the beginning at your strange rant aimed at me, China fully locked down and disinfected the streets for weeks, we couldn't do that as we live in a democracy not a totalitarian country. I have travelled and dealt, for 7 years, in mainland China and do know a thing or two about the place.

We have, allegedly a death toll exceeding 100,000 people due to Covid. Personally I doubt it's half that but as I can't prove it it doesn't mean I have to accept it. They state the figure is people that have died within 28 days of testing positive yet this is manipulated to state 100,000+ deaths because of Covid.

Can you please point to where I have latched onto nonsense conspiracies, I haven't downplayed the pandemic, I do however have a brain to question random figures. I also had Covid in April, very close to being collected by ambulance so I do know a little about that as well. I suggest you actually try and understand what people write before trying to ridicule them. 

 

[SSWC]

9 minutes ago, Bart90 said:

I'm afraid you're simply wrong, the effectiveness of masks has always been a matter for debate even in surgical/Dental settings.  Remember, it's a face covering, it doesn't have to be PPE.   You may find the below video a helpful reminder; their recommendations pre July weren't anything to do with PPE shortages.  

Apologies if my mask brigade comment offended you. By it, I simply mean the hardcore of people like yourself, who genuinely think they'll kill people if they don't wear one and believe anyone one who doesn't comply poses a health risk to others.  I'm happy for you to wear one, but don't tell me to wear one on weak and limited evidence when there is good reason not to for other health reasons.  If the Goverment had really wanted to do it they should have strongly advised people to wear them not made it law.  They've achieved a great deal through their media outlets in cowering people into compliance and I'm sure that would have done the trick without criminialising those of us who can assess the evidence for ourselves and make rational decisions.  

Do the scientists and medical professionals who signed the Great Barrington declaration fall into your category of cranks with zero credibility?

Your general tone really highlights my point about this whole debate. 

LOL you claim I'm wrong and then you tell me to watch some conspiracy theory video, are you all there mate? Weak and limited evidence? Here's the CDC's reasoning for mask wearing along with 45 studies backing the use of masks within the community, are they all wrong as well? You aren't "assessing the evidence" because the evidence points to masks being effective at source control. If you were really "assessing the evidence" you'd be in favour of masks because the overwhelming majority of studies and data backs mask usage. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

As for the Barrington Declaration it's been discredited as nonsense an untold amount of times now for various reasons but if you still believe it carries so much weight, why hasn't it been implemented as policy anywhere on planet earth? Surely if it was credible and was signed by credible scientists it would have at least some implementation in policy? 

You've bought into all the crank nonsense unfortunately and I think you're either too deluded by it all or just too stubborn to realise you're wrong. I mean the idea that the likes of SAGE, the CDC and all the other experts directing policy around the world are wrong and the fringe cranks with zero credibility are right is just laughable. 

 

[steve garwood]

Just forget about all these stats and get the ****ing  pub open! ????????????????

 

[SSWC]

Let's start at the beginning at your strange rant aimed at me, China fully locked down and disinfected the streets for weeks, we couldn't do that as we live in a democracy not a totalitarian country. I have travelled and dealt, for 7 years, in mainland China and do know a thing or two about the place.

We have, allegedly a death toll exceeding 100,000 people due to Covid. Personally I doubt it's half that but as I can't prove it it doesn't mean I have to accept it. They state the figure is people that have died within 28 days of testing positive yet this is manipulated to state 100,000+ deaths because of Covid.

Can you please point to where I have latched onto nonsense conspiracies, I haven't downplayed the pandemic, I do however have a brain to question random figures. I also had Covid in April, very close to being collected by ambulance so I do know a little about that as well. I suggest you actually try and understand what people write before trying to ridicule them. 

You've clearly latched onto the conspiracy theory that somehow covid deaths figures aren't accurate and are somehow over reported. The number of excess deaths in 2020 closely matched the number of official covid deaths so what else has caused those deaths if your assertion of at least 50% of them weren't covid is true? What other disease has surged within the last 12 months to cause those deaths? 

Contrary to your belief it takes more than covid being mentioned on a death certificate for a death to be classified as a covid death. The ONS distinguishes between deaths involving covid and deaths in which covid was an underlying cause. In most cases (90.2% in England) where covid was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be an underlying cause of death.