Anyone for new software?

[robmorgan]

Evening folks,

I'll cut to it. A decade or so ago () I built a thing called CleanerPlanner. Seems it stood the test of time pretty well, but is now starting to show its age, and hasn't moved forward in years.

A couple of windies have reached out recently to ask if I have a new round management app in the pipeline. I don't - yet - though I'm starting to think it might not be the stupidest of ideas!

They mentioned features such as Xero integration, an API (to enable automations, e.g. with Zapier) as being missing from other apps, as well as reliability and reporting issues and limitations.

And look, if we were to build something new, it would be a blank canvas - I'd love to hear all the cool ideas you guys have for reinventing the game and taking WC software to the next level!

But, big but...

I only want to build something you guys actually want. So if you're happy with the options that are already on the market - honestly - just tell me to move on, you'll be doing me a favour

So what do you think - yay or nay?

If yay - I'd love to hear what features you have in mind! And/or even just little things that bug you about the other apps out there.

If nay - no hard feelings! Just looking for clarity either way.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[dazmond]

I still use Cleaner Planner and it does all I need it to do at present but HMRC are bringing in making tax digital in the next few years for all self employed (including those earning less than 50k a year) so we will all be forced to submit accounts through HMRC approved software every 3 months which will mean inputting 2 lots of data and increasing admin unless there's a solution through bridging software or an all in one window cleaning program that can easily be uploaded into making tax digital......

 

[robmorgan]

Yeah seems like MTD has been looming forever!

I noticed Squeegee are working on an app/add-on called Balance, which I think is supposed to negate the need for Xero/QuickBooks (perhaps even the need for an accountant?!) and submit your figures to HMRC directly. Not sure how realistic that is though. Most window cleaners (and small businesses in general) have an accountant, and most use Xero, QuickBooks or Sage, and don't want to have to use other software, certainly not for preparing and submitting tax and VAT returns. And as for not having an accountant at all, then you get no help with ensuring you're keeping the books correctly, saving tax where you can but not pushing it too far etc.

Tbh, although it will be tricky, I think the only realistic solution is to integrate with all the major accounting software and meet the accountants where they are. I was skeptical about this way back when, but with MTD I think it's unavoidable. The idea of building accounting software into a round planning app, and either expecting it to do everything for you, or your accountant to get on with it, seems unrealistic to me. Accounting software is an extremely specialist area. Xero, QuickBooks etc have teams of accountants making sure everything is always calculated and submitted correctly, and in line with current, ever shifting HMRC rules and regulations. It's a whole other ball game that it doesn't make sense for a round planning app to get directly involved in, IMO.

 

[Iron Giant]

@robmorgan good to see you on here it's been a very long time since we had any contact, it would be potentially interesting to see what you could bring, I think one issue which may have already been resolved is the switching of GoCardless customers over to another app,

I do really like what you built with CP which is why I haven't switched over to anything else, but it has barely changed in over 10 years also not that I really needed it but the customer service with cp isn't great and the app does run into issues which never seemed to get resolved.

 

[dazmond]

@robmorgan good to see you on here it's been a very long time since we had any contact, it would be potentially interesting to see what you could bring, I think one issue which may have already been resolved is the switching of GoCardless customers over to another app,

I do really like what you built with CP which is why I haven't switched over to anything else, but it has barely changed in over 10 years also not that I really needed it but the customer service with cp isn't great and the app does run into issues which never seemed to get resolved.

What issues have you had with cleaner planner? The only issue I had was emailing invoices quite a few years ago now which was resolved very quickly(within 24 hours)...

I love it. It's simple and straightforward to use and I wouldn't change anything about it at all. It does everything effectively and efficiently for my business but MTD is going to change all that. If there was a way to submit cleaner planner accounts into HMRC software every 3 months I wouldn't go anywhere else but I don't think there is any plans to do any updates to it at all.

A window cleaning program that integrates with government approved software to cut down admin so we only have to input data once would be ideal to remain compliant with MTD.

I do my own self assessment and want to make it as easy and straightforward as possible going forward

 

[Iron Giant]

What issues have you had with cleaner planner? The only issue I had was emailing invoices quite a few years ago now which was resolved very quickly(within 24 hours)...

I love it. It's simple and straightforward to use and I wouldn't change anything about it at all. It does everything effectively and efficiently for my business but MTD is going to change all that. If there was a way to submit cleaner planner accounts into HMRC software every 3 months I wouldn't go anywhere else but I don't think there is any plans to do any updates to it at all.

A window cleaning program that integrates with government approved software to cut down admin so we only have to input data once would be ideal to remain compliant with MTD.

I do my own self assessment and want to make it as easy and straightforward as possible going forward

It throws up an error with worksheets at least twice a week, there was something else I just can't remember it might come to me one day or never it's anyone's guess

I'm with you on not switching to anything else because of the ease of use of CP which I got to grips with straight off the bat years ago, but if it becomes viable for @robmorgan to develop a new app then I'd be onboard

 

[ched999uk]

There are a couple of feature that would be good to have, maybe CP already does this, I use Squeegee.
1. use the sms system within my phone sim contract for sending texts.
2. bank reconciliation would be very helpful.
3. maybe some sort of auto reminder to tick off jobs as complete - i.e. if at a job (gps location) for more than 10 mins (may be user settable) and you then drive off (move more than 100m say) it pops up a reminder to check if you completed the previous job.

 

[Iron Giant]

There are a couple of feature that would be good to have, maybe CP already does this, I use Squeegee.
1. use the sms system within my phone sim contract for sending texts.
2. bank reconciliation would be very helpful.
3. maybe some sort of auto reminder to tick off jobs as complete - i.e. if at a job (gps location) for more than 10 mins (may be user settable) and you then drive off (move more than 100m say) it pops up a reminder to check if you completed the previous job.

I'm assuming you're memory is as bad as mine and @spruce

My memory is bad not bad enough yet to forget to mark jobs done but I do drive past jobs in a day dream and have to drive back over

although it could be an interesting thing in relation to lads with multiple van ops and tracking staff maybe to ensure times and schedules are met,

Yes bank reconciliation could be a thing not sure how all that works with data permissions

 

[robmorgan]

@ched999uk thanks for replying - great suggestions

1. CP doesn't do this either, we got plenty of requests for it but if I'm honest, integrating with Textlocal was simpler and the CP app was/is very basic, so I just couldn't see a way to doing it at the time. However, this should technically be possible, and mobile app frameworks have moved on a lot in the last decade(!) so I'd love to get this feature in. Won't necessarily suit those who employ, but for one man bands I totally get it, both from a cost (free texts on your phone) and also a convenience/continuity perspective, of keeping all the conversations with your customers on your phone.

2. 100%, though this does take us into the realm of replicating what accounting software does which might not make sense, I'm not sure - i.e. whether we try and build this vs integrating with Xero/Quickbooks etc. Saying that, for guys who do their own tax returns and don't have an accountant and don't use Xero etc (been chatting with Dazmond about this) it seems we might well (ideally) need a direct HMRC connection for submitting your own returns, in which case we would need a reconciliation feature, but that's not a trivial thing to build (and get right) so it needs some thought.

3. Cool idea. I mean generally, I imagine, you would get to the next job and see that you forgot to tick off the last and do it then, but it would still be a nice feature - noted!

 

[ched999uk]

I'm assuming you're memory is as bad as mine and @spruce

My memory is bad not bad enough yet to forget to mark jobs done but I do drive past jobs in a day dream and have to drive back over

although it could be an interesting thing in relation to lads with multiple van ops and tracking staff maybe to ensure times and schedules are met,

Yes bank reconciliation could be a thing not sure how all that works with data permissions

Squeegee does do bank reconciliation but not at the lower subscription level. I think data permission is OK as you have the customer info from bank deposit info and you have record of customers in squeegee (or CP). I think as it's data you are legally processing manually then automating it should be fine?

Sometimes I do forget to mark a job done when I'm finished but usually remember at the next job .
Time tracking jobs using gps data might be an interesting one but then again you might do multiple jobs without moving the van - might be good data though - really shows how much more efficient not moving the van between jobs is!

 

[Iron Giant]

I want to say that I have been in direct contact with @robmorgan today and he has been very responsive, he has been replying to comments in this thread, but they aren’t being approved by staff, I just thought I'd let people know that they aren't been ignored by Rob

 

[Iron Giant]

@Tech Admin can you not jump in on this and get replies approved, it's shocking that 3 days later we are still waiting, this wouldn't have happened on my watch

 

[P4dstar]

1. use the sms system within my phone sim contract for sending texts.

This would save me hundreds every year. I think currently 1000 texts costs me £43 every 3 weeks on average.

 

[robmorgan]

And we're back! WCF insisted on moving the thread to this sponsor section for me to be able to reply, don't really get it as I don't have anything to promote yet! Just trying to gauge interest and throw ideas around, but rules are rules!

Anyhoo, couple of replies above still sitting in moderation, I guess they might pop up at some point but to summarise:

MTD - with this kicking in for those earning over £50k from April 2026, it's a looming problem now that a new round management app would 100% have to address. Seems unlikely the CP owners will do anything about it, given the software hasn't moved forward an inch in 5+ years. Looks like Squeegee are (Balance?) no idea how well it works given Squeegee doesn't have a flawless reputation for data integrity as far as I can gather. Seems in an ideal world we would need two options here: 1. Accounting software (Xero/Quickbooks etc) integration for those that use accounting software (or who have an accountant who does), more likely slightly larger businesses with employees etc, and probably 2. HMRC integration to allow sole traders who do their own accounts to submit MTD figures directly. I need to do a bit more research on this and I'm keen to talk to people who can offer a bit more insight on what they need.

Bank reconciliation - I was skeptical about this in the past (tricky to get right, especially with bank statement exports being in all sorts of formats) but given MTD, I think we do need this now. Potentially we could look to integrate with Open Banking which is the new(ish) official way to give a third-party app access to your bank transactions. It's what Xero uses. There will be an underlying cost but I don't think it's prohibitive. Would be much more reliable than importing bank statement files as the data comes through from Open Banking in a single consistent format.

Texting from phone - oh yes, it's 100% time for this one! Getting on for £50/month is insane @P4dstar given you probably have unlimited free texts on your phone! Honestly, I didn't implement this in CP as it wasn't possible with the mobile app framework I used to build it at the time, but things have moved on and modern mobile app frameworks give developers much better access to the phone's native features, such as SMS. Not sure why Squeegee hasn't done this, perhaps they're making a decent pile from text credits (this was never a big earner for CP as we pretty much passed them on at whatever cost I could squeeze Textlocal down to. I note Squeegee is charging 3.6p/text. Given how many they're texts sending across their platform I would be surprised if they couldn't get this down to ~2.5p/text e.g. https://www.clicksend.com/gb/pricing/gb/) Also... what about integrating with Whatsapp? Now there's an idea...

Keep'em coming! This is starting to get interesting

 

[P4dstar]

I think if we’re completely honest George was taken over by Cleaner planner. Nowadays Cleaner planner has been taken over by Squeegee. In the world of apps this was always going to be the case. I’m happy with Squeegee but it wouldn’t stop me from leaving and moving to something better if it came along. The chaps who use Cleaner planner have their business set up in a way that suits and don’t want the hassle of change. I can respect that but a company wanting to grow can’t remain stagnant in any area including software.

I think the biggest issues you’ll face in the current market is that Squeegee really dominates. They are very receptive to feedback and always changing and trying to grow. I know you already have some software but I believe this was sold off to an American firm a few years back so this would be an entire new venture? If I am correct with that IMO you have hit the market about 5 years later than would have been ideal. It won’t be the same as overtaking George, they’ll put up much more of a fight.

The obvious way in is by offering some sort of money saving. The only thing is, CRM software for window cleaners is already very cheap for what it is. In any other industry they would expect double but us windies are notoriously cheap. I’ve said before it amazes me how a fella can tell you on one hand he takes £500 a day but penny pinches elsewhere. Of course I need to keep myself competitive across the board so I follow suit sometimes but you get what I’m saying.

 

[ched999uk]

One feature that I think is missing on Squeegee, unless it's just I haven't found it, is a way to block out days or hours for holidays or non work appointments. Not sure how it would work with ref to scheduling but It would be good to block a day or week out for a holiday and not have to keep checking if say a new job was added a future job didn't end up in holiday week. At the bottom of each invoice that gets emailed to the customer I have an approximate date of next clean. So if I pick a new job, it's repeat could hit my holiday week and unless I keep an eye on things a customer gets an email giving them a date that wont happen. It's not a bit thing and probably not a day 1 release feature but it's something to put on a feature list?

 

[Will. C.]

One feature that I think is missing on Squeegee, unless it's just I haven't found it, is a way to block out days or hours for holidays or non work appointments. Not sure how it would work with ref to scheduling but It would be good to block a day or week out for a holiday and not have to keep checking if say a new job was added a future job didn't end up in holiday week. At the bottom of each invoice that gets emailed to the customer I have an approximate date of next clean. So if I pick a new job, it's repeat could hit my holiday week and unless I keep an eye on things a customer gets an email giving them a date that wont happen. It's not a bit thing and probably not a day 1 release feature but it's something to put on a feature list?

Yes I really would like this feature, I was thinking perhaps somehow link it to Google calendar, to ovoid overlap, with booked in holidays.

 

[Will. C.]

One feature that I think is missing on Squeegee, unless it's just I haven't found it, is a way to block out days or hours for holidays or non work appointments. Not sure how it would work with ref to scheduling but It would be good to block a day or week out for a holiday and not have to keep checking if say a new job was added a future job didn't end up in holiday week. At the bottom of each invoice that gets emailed to the customer I have an approximate date of next clean. So if I pick a new job, it's repeat could hit my holiday week and unless I keep an eye on things a customer gets an email giving them a date that wont happen. It's not a bit thing and probably not a day 1 release feature but it's something to put on a feature list?

Yes I really would like this feature, I was thinking perhaps somehow link it to Google calendar, to ovoid overlap, with booked in holidays.

Evening folks,

I'll cut to it. A decade or so ago () I built a thing called CleanerPlanner. Seems it stood the test of time pretty well, but is now starting to show its age, and hasn't moved forward in years.

A couple of windies have reached out recently to ask if I have a new round management app in the pipeline. I don't - yet - though I'm starting to think it might not be the stupidest of ideas!

They mentioned features such as Xero integration, an API (to enable automations, e.g. with Zapier) as being missing from other apps, as well as reliability and reporting issues and limitations.

And look, if we were to build something new, it would be a blank canvas - I'd love to hear all the cool ideas you guys have for reinventing the game and taking WC software to the next level!

But, big but...

I only want to build something you guys actually want. So if you're happy with the options that are already on the market - honestly - just tell me to move on, you'll be doing me a favour

So what do you think - yay or nay?

If yay - I'd love to hear what features you have in mind! And/or even just little things that bug you about the other apps out there.

If nay - no hard feelings! Just looking for clarity either way.

Cheers,

Rob

A few features I would like are as follows:
1. Linking to Google accounts so I don't book a job that conflicts with my personal calendar.
2. Round auto optimise feature - so I would like the ability to be able to click a button with parameters set I.e set to £250 / £300 per day worth of work each day, and the software would organise the closest jobs as per postcode and organises the round for you. (I struggle with organising my round to work the most efficiently)
3. When booking in clients for one-offs, when I move the regular work for any reason, that is on the same day, I would like a pop up message saying "are you sure you want to move all jobs for this day, this job has been booked in and confirmed with client". (As in the past I have moved a day to have angry clients that were expecting me on the date that was moved)
4. The ability to email multiple email addresses on the same job, as I have block of flats what want me to email every resident before I arive ahead of time. (Currently only 1 email adress can be put on the client profile.)
5. The ability to easily see when an email has been sent to clients and what information was on it.
(As I've been sending price increase emails recently and clients have not received the email)
I would like to be able to see at a glance on the client profile what has been sent and when.

If I think of anything else I'll let you know.



5.

 

[Iron Giant]

One feature that I think is missing on Squeegee, unless it's just I haven't found it, is a way to block out days or hours for holidays or non work appointments. Not sure how it would work with ref to scheduling but It would be good to block a day or week out for a holiday and not have to keep checking if say a new job was added a future job didn't end up in holiday week. At the bottom of each invoice that gets emailed to the customer I have an approximate date of next clean. So if I pick a new job, it's repeat could hit my holiday week and unless I keep an eye on things a customer gets an email giving them a date that wont happen. It's not a bit thing and probably not a day 1 release feature but it's something to put on a feature list?

I couldn't write a text if you ain't worked this out and you're far more intelligent than me it must be missing