Anyone used Ionics?

[P4dstar]

There will be something hidden in the small print which he signed. They won't cover the o/p for his travelling and accommodation expenses, or the loss of earnings while the fault/s are repaired..

An extreme example of this is the EV drive. The government has past legislation through parliament last year absolving the government of any financial losses by manufacturers resulting from government initiatives which fail.

I think thats pretty standard for terms of service. I remember Grippa having something similar. The one thing they can't affect is your statutory rights though. In terms of negligence they all seem to try and absolve themselves from any responsibility, not sure how well that would stand up in a court though.

 

[Part Timer]

I think thats pretty standard for terms of service. I remember Grippa having something similar. The one thing they can't affect is your statutory rights though. In terms of negligence they all seem to try and absolve themselves from any responsibility, not sure how well that would stand up in a court though.

They always revert back to their terms and conditions. However these have to be deemed fair to stand up in a Court of Law. Trying to say their poor workmanship is somehow covered by the fact there are other, potential, sources of water wouldn't stand up in a Court.

 

[P4dstar]

They always revert back to their terms and conditions. However these have to be deemed fair to stand up in a Court of Law. Trying to say their poor workmanship is somehow covered by the fact there are other, potential, sources of water wouldn't stand up in a Court.

Yeah but what I’m getting at is where does the liability stop. Once you drive away they won’t check the system again but would fix something if you spotted it and told them. Do we as operators not have a responsibility to look out for faults? If you spot it and immediately report it it feels they should be responsible for any damage caused up to that point. On the other hand the system will develop faults and need general maintenance, there comes a point where liability stops being with ionics. This one would seem clear cut except there is a time between the fault occurring and being reported. Similarly the OP states he heard the noise of water running but thought it was something he would have to get used to. This is the point ionics would likely say he has a responsibility to check and get any faults resolved.

 

[dazmond]

Grippatank were fantastic with me and even made a 340 mile round trip to fix my problem and gave me a courtesy van for 3 days while they fixed it. They learned a valuable lesson and now will always check their heaters work properly with the engine off!

 

[steve garwood]

Grippatank were fantastic with me and even made a 340 mile round trip to fix my problem and gave me a courtesy van for 3 days while they fixed it. They learned a valuable lesson and now will always check their heaters work properly with the engine off!

Must say I agree. They was brilliant with me as well.
Made a great job of putting my tank in, plus I asked them to bolt a reel either side of the tank.
A rhino could charge at the reels and they wouldn’t move

 

[Pjj]

Must say I agree. They was brilliant with me as well.
Made a great job of putting my tank in, plus I asked them to bolt a reel either side of the tank.
A rhino could charge at the reels and they wouldn’t move

Don’t mention them to @P4dstar or me

 

[P4dstar]

When I first used Grippa I had a good experience. The tank is a fantastic design. I don't want to turn this poor chaps post into a Grippa beating thread (there are plenty of those on CIU). My honest experience with Ionic has been good also. So much so I have just booked in for a brand new 700L Thermopure @ £10.5k +VAT

 

[Iron Giant]

That's not a good response. I can't believe they would put it like that. Yes we might have damp brushes and cloths but there is no reason a leak can't be stopped.
In my opinion they should be fixing the 'damage' their poor installation caused. There might be electronic control units under the seats, seat belt pretensioners etc that could be rusting away!

It all needs drying out asap with a dehumidifier. I would send a polite but firm email to them saying that either they dry out and have any electrical/electronic components in the wet area inspected or you will take legal action to recover your costs of doing such.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

I have just read the post from the start and the big issue here is he noticed the issue back in May but it's taken until this month for him and Ionics to get the van back to Ionics so if it's been leaking water for 6 months, if I heard running water in the back of my van I'd want it sorted within hours not 6 months later!!

 

[P4dstar]

I have just read the post from the start and the big issue here is he noticed the issue back in May but it's taken until this month for him and Ionics to get the van back to Ionics so if it's been leaking water for 6 months, if I heard running water in the back of my van I'd want it sorted within hours not 6 months later!!

This is what I was thinking. But to be fair to the OP it sounds like he is new to the world of window cleaning. I also wondered if the dripping noise was actually the return to tank pressure release valve kicking in and nothing to do with the leak at all.

 

[Iron Giant]

This is what I was thinking. But to be fair to the OP it sounds like he is new to the world of window cleaning. I also wondered if the dripping noise was actually the return to tank pressure release valve kicking in and nothing to do with the leak at all.

But surely human curiosity and that niggling feeling that with that dripping sound in the back of a van in needs investigating, I'm not the best at checking things but something dripping would need further investigation, also the amount of water leaking to find it's way through the floor and into the rear footwell which is covered would be considerable but also noticeable with a quick look around a system

 

[P4dstar]

But surely human curiosity and that niggling feeling that with that dripping sound in the back of a van in needs investigating, I'm not the best at checking things but something dripping would need further investigation, also the amount of water leaking to find it's way through the floor and into the rear footwell which is covered would be considerable but also noticeable with a quick look around a system

I think my posts read as if I’ve got split personality. Some seem in favour of ionics, some in favour of the OP. Genuinely just trying to work out on the balance of probability who is at fault. I think ultimately it lies with what you’ve said there, a leak is relatively easy to see. If it was pouring and not dripping I think it would have become apparent very very quickly too. The difficulty with these posts is the manufacturer never takes time to respond. As with my GrippaTank posts they dont take up their right of reply. However I have kept receipts on those problems should they ever decide to.

 

[HamishMcdoodle]

Update as of 19th December 2024.
The hose reel that was “fixed” of leaks by the manufacturer is now leaking again. In under 4 weeks.

The noise of water in the back was a release valve, to do with the valve of the Ionics boiler, I’ve not had a diesel boiler before and was unfamiliar with the sound.

The main leaks were from the reel, to which the manufacturer was instantly informed and the thermal valve that exploded due to a manufacturing fault.

Oh and to top it all off, the Rapido reel has now stopped working on the second van on the week before Xmas.

Good luck to the member who is about to get a Thermopure installed, just make sure you’re not in a car derived van like a Ford Connect for when it leaks.

 

[P4dstar]

Update as of 19th December 2024.
The hose reel that was “fixed” of leaks by the manufacturer is now leaking again. In under 4 weeks.

The noise of water in the back was a release valve, to do with the valve of the Ionics boiler, I’ve not had a diesel boiler before and was unfamiliar with the sound.

The main leaks were from the reel, to which the manufacturer was instantly informed and the thermal valve that exploded due to a manufacturing fault.

Oh and to top it all off, the Rapido reel has now stopped working on the second van on the week before Xmas.

Good luck to the member who is about to get a Thermopure installed, just make sure you’re not in a car derived van like a Ford Connect for when it leaks.

So just to check… you’re saying the manufacturer as if we’re talking about someone other than ionics, but also mention the rapido reel on another van. Is the leaking reel from ionics also?

Exploding connections are a thing. Overfilling a van is a thing. Happens sometimes and is a PITA. I think the thing I’d take from this is that a car derived van is not suitable for window cleaning. When I discussed adding a cleaning system into the back of my VW transporter Kombi they instantly looked at sealing up to a bulk head etc. explained they would need to make. Little lip if there was no bulk head as they have to make a bowl essentially. When these issues happen and the van is soaked it’s down to us to clean up the mess. The manufacturer isn’t going to accept responsibility for that.
With regards to the pressure release valve being the noise I’m very proud of my detective skills there. The hose reel having a small leak makes much more sense. Unfortunately that one is something that would likely come back to the operator. I know from recent experience the wait to get in to ionics for some work is only a week and they’re always happy to give remote support where possible. If you’re aware of the issue you’ve a certain responsibility to mitigate it. Usually throwing a towel down and ringing it out once every few hours mitigates problems like this.

I’m interested in your set up Hamish. You come on fleetingly and provide us with updates but what’s the score with your business? You’ve said you have a second van. I would have anticipated someone running two vans would understand some of the above daily maintenance things? Have you got chaps out working for you, what I’m getting at is someone in your business could do with the skills to doing some basic maintenance.

 

[spruce]

My son has a 2002 Berlingo hdi. The best thing I did was to fibreglass a tub on the cargo bay floor and up the sides a bit to stop any leaks from soaking the carpets. Now, unless the tank bursts, any leaking water can only exit the van via the rear doors.
It's such a pleasure being in a van without damp smelling carpets. His van is dry.

 

[tench0771]

I had a old fiat scudo nightmare of a van but I remember doing some inside windows hose blue off pump started pumping water in back of van anyway was at least a hour inside came back the foot wells were full of water dog soaked and he took refuge on the passenger seat that was old shape scudo never thought it was a car derived van maby just a bad design

 

[spruce]

I had a old fiat scudo nightmare of a van but I remember doing some inside windows hose blue off pump started pumping water in back of van anyway was at least a hour inside came back the foot wells were full of water dog soaked and he took refuge on the passenger seat that was old shape scudo never thought it was a car derived van maby just a bad design

I can't remember if those old shaped Scudo's, Experts and Dispatches had a van floor lower than the cabin floor tbh. It could well have been, as the mechanics had to drop the fuel tank on one order we had to fit a large, lock-up tool box secured (bolted) through the floor.

What I do know is that the smaller vans, (Berlingos & Partners,) were based on the people carrier. All they did is extend the cargo bay floor over what was where the rear passenger footwells are. So the cargo area is higher than the rear footwells. Any water spills would just seep though the extended floor area and soak the carpets. The fuel tank was situated under the area just forward of the rear axle, where the rear passenger seat would be in the people carrier.

My Peugeot Boxer's cargo floor is lower than my driver's cabin floor. The fuel tank is underneath the driver and passenger seat. The lower floor height was a sales feature as the van was easier to load. Front-wheel drive enabled this.
The benefit to us as window cleaners is that if I accidentally over fill my van's water tank, then the water will just exit the cargo area via the side and rear doors. If this happens, then I will still have to get the wet and dry vacuum cleaner out to suck up water that gets left behind in those strengthening channels in the floor.

When I fill my van, I now stay at the back doors and watch the whole process. I've over filled my van too many times before by just popping inside to quickly do something else.

 

[Iron Giant]

Exploding connections are a thing. Overfilling a van is a thing. Happens sometimes and is a PITA. I think the thing I’d take from this is that a car derived van is not suitable for window cleaning. When I discussed adding a cleaning system into the back of my VW transporter Kombi they instantly looked at sealing up to a bulk head etc. explained they would need to make. Little lip if there was no bulk head as they have to make a bowl essentially. When these issues happen and the van is soaked it’s down to us to clean up the mess. The manufacturer isn’t going to accept responsibility for that.
With regards to the pressure release valve being the noise I’m very proud of my detective skills there. The hose reel having a small leak makes much more sense. Unfortunately that one is something that would likely come back to the operator. I know from recent experience the wait to get in to ionics for some work is only a week and they’re always happy to give remote support where possible. If you’re aware of the issue you’ve a certain responsibility to mitigate it. Usually throwing a towel down and ringing it out once every few hours mitigates problems like this.

I’m interested in your set up Hamish. You come on fleetingly and provide us with updates but what’s the score with your business? You’ve said you have a second van. I would have anticipated someone running two vans would understand some of the above daily maintenance things? Have you got chaps out working for you, what I’m getting at is someone in your business could do with the skills to doing some basic maintenance.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using a car-derived van at all for our trade, about 8 years ago when I was in the process of kitting out my first van I came across a very detailed post by @AGlassAct I sealed every edge and small holes at the bottom of the bulkhead with Tiger Seal then painted the floor with Protectacote and up the sides by about 6 inches, no matter how many times I flooded my van water stayed in load area and didn't leak through to the false floor.

In my newer Berlingo that I have now, I didn't bother going to all the trouble that I went to with my previous van I learned from my mistakes and take precautions to mitigate any potential spillages, although at our last house I had to park 30m from my storage tank so had to run like hell to switch the pump off when filling, then I discovered smart plugs far less physical just tapping a button on my phone.

I'm with you on maintenance skills, but I also think that someone needs to go to Specsavers and train his staff because a leaking hose reel is very easily spotted and sorted, every hose reel within 6 months of use will start leaking and its usually a case of a jubilee clip needing a turn a two because the hose has been expanding and contracting over time,

I have had O rings fail inside elbows and so on and didn't always have the spares to swap out, but as you say putting a towel underneath a leaking fitting is the thing to do, I have managed a full day or so doing this years ago whilst waiting for parts.

 

[P4dstar]

I'm with you on maintenance skills, but I also think that someone needs to go to Specsavers and train his staff because a leaking hose reel is very easily spotted and sorted, every hose reel within 6 months of use will start leaking and its usually a case of a jubilee clip needing a turn a two because the hose has been expanding and contracting over time,

I have had O rings fail inside elbows and so on and didn't always have the spares to swap out, but as you say putting a towel underneath a leaking fitting is the thing to do, I have managed a full day or so doing this years ago whilst waiting for parts.

I was trying to be diplomatic but yes, a leaking hose is something that should be easily spotted

I think if it’s your own van a car derived van isn’t a problem. If you’re buying it for an employee to use it may be treated a little differently…. On a completely unrelated note, anyone want to buy a Fiat Doblo