Battery and Pump Advice Please

[Squeegee Dan]

I'd use a 110 battery and a relay charger.
I've had mine for about 3 months hand I haven't needed to charge it once.


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[spruce]

I'd use a 110 battery and a relay charger.
I've had mine for about 3 months hand I haven't needed to charge it once.


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It would be interesting to see exactly what the state of charge in your battery is.

After you have let it stand for 4 hours this evening, please can you put a multimeter across the leisure battery terminals and tell us what the voltage of the battery is. Thanks.

 

[Squeegee Dan]

I use a pump controller with a built in relay charger and multimeters.

It also has a shut off to protect the battery

So if it goes too low it won't work.

Usually it sits a around 12.8 - 13v but once a month I work about 3 miles away which mean i need to go up the motorway and it usually charges the batt up to about 13.3-13.4v.

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[Mr B]

@spruce

For those of you who use the NUMAX charger. Do you find it is ok to leave other electrical equipment connected to the battery whilst it's charging? I've previously used a Ctek charger which you could do this with. Unfortunately that charger has now died after 5 years and I need a new one.

 

[Den]

I will also add information about electrics.

When wireing up a plug, the blue wire goes on the left ?

cheers needed that clarified as wasn't sure. 

 

[steve garwood]

@spruce

For those of you who use the NUMAX charger. Do you find it is ok to leave other electrical equipment connected to the battery whilst it's charging? I've previously used a Ctek charger which you could do this with. Unfortunately that charger has now died after 5 years and I need a new one.

I use two numax chargers and keep the pump and controller connected on my van mount and trolley ?

 

[Mr B]

I use two numax chargers and keep the pump and controller connected on my van mount and trolley ?

Top info, thanks ?

 

[Mcsandlaly]

I have a wcw tank 350 litres I bought this year about April and the battery that came with it is a leisure battery which I bought a charger for and have  charged it most nights. I dont do total water fed pole system work, I do ladders as well due to some customers preference. My battery has been failing to come to life in the mornings after I have connected it to the cables that come out from the tank. I also have a power reel on the top of the tank. This morning I managed to do one house but then it would do no more and the hose would not reel any.

Any suggestions as I have used a Gardiner backpack and never had a problem. Surely the battery cant be dead already. It said it was on 8.5 volts this morning as you can press a couple of buttons on the front which show where the power is on the battery. Turned it off and fiddled around with the connectors and then turned on again and it showed 7.5 so obviously too low. I got the ladders off the van!!! Appreciate any advice.

 

[spruce]

I have a wcw tank 350 litres I bought this year about April and the battery that came with it is a leisure battery which I bought a charger for and have  charged it most nights. I dont do total water fed pole system work, I do ladders as well due to some customers preference. My battery has been failing to come to life in the mornings after I have connected it to the cables that come out from the tank. I also have a power reel on the top of the tank. This morning I managed to do one house but then it would do no more and the hose would not reel any.

Any suggestions as I have used a Gardiner backpack and never had a problem. Surely the battery cant be dead already. It said it was on 8.5 volts this morning as you can press a couple of buttons on the front which show where the power is on the battery. Turned it off and fiddled around with the connectors and then turned on again and it showed 7.5 so obviously too low. I got the ladders off the van!!! Appreciate any advice.

I'm afraid no one is going to be able to give you a 100% definitive answer.

However, if your leisure battery has a reading this low it could well indicate a dead cell. If charging it doesn't help then this is a probable reason. Why did my daughter in laws car battery go completely dead at 6.30pm in the hospital car park on the coldest night of the year so far? It wouldn't even accept a charge from a jumper cable and was absorbing any delivery power from the vans battery when we tried to start the engine. Thankfully Halfords was still open and we got a battery to replace it.

Leisure batteries are designed to slowly deliver power to equipment (a slow discharge). They aren't designed to deliver bursts of high amperage.

My gut is telling me that the current your power reel draws is where the probable cause is.  It could also have been down to a faulty battery.

There are some manufacturers who are now making dual purpose batteries for the leisure market. This market includes caravan owners who use motor movers.

Numax are one battery supplier/manufacturer who advertises several of their 105/110 amp leisure batteries with a CCA value attached (CCA = cold cranking amps.) I've never been able to discover exactly what amps a power reel draws. I believe that they fit a 25 amp inline fuse so it won't be much less than the fuse they fit. (I know how Ohm's law works, but I'm not 100% sure if it applies to a 24v motor used on a 12v supply. The motor speed is halved, the torque is halved but I don't know if the amp draw remains at the 24v amount (14.5 amps for a 350 watt motor) or whether it doubles on the lower voltage.)

The millisecond you press the power reel start button is the moment there is a direct short in the motor before the motor starts to turn. That high amperage is much higher than the fuse rating, but as its momentarily the fuse wire doesn't get hot enough to melt or blow. (This is why they are termed as slow blow fuses.)

Numax will not action any warranty for a battery supplied to window cleaners as they term us battery abusers. But our experience with the brand has been excellent. I am quite happy to take on the risk myself.

The other thing is your battery charger. Is it a charger designed to charge leisure batteries?

One thing you will have to do is replace the battery.

.

 

[Mcsandlaly]

I find it rather sad that manufacturers of window cleaning products have sold them on the market but there is not a real good battery power solution. Yes you can wire them into your vehicle but if you dont do many miles you have a problem and obviously the ones on the market dont last long even if you religiously charge them every night. I use a charger for charging leisure batteries, I spent ages choosing one to ensure when I started using the tank and reel from WCW in the spring I did everything right. Surely in the age of rocket stations orbiting the earth we window cleaners can come up with a perfect solution for the power we need.  Guess we dont have solar power sussed and the sun isn't shining much at the moment.

Does anyone use two batteries, one charging on the bench and one in the van?

Any bright ideas appreciated from you folk with decades of experience PLEASE?

 

[Eviestevie]

I'm afraid no one is going to be able to give you a 100% definitive answer.

However, if your leisure battery has a reading this low it could well indicate a dead cell. If charging it doesn't help then this is a probable reason. Why did my daughter in laws car battery go completely dead at 6.30pm in the hospital car park on the coldest night of the year so far? It wouldn't even accept a charge from a jumper cable and was absorbing any delivery power from the vans battery when we tried to start the engine. Thankfully Halfords was still open and we got a battery to replace it.

Leisure batteries are designed to slowly deliver power to equipment (a slow discharge). They aren't designed to deliver bursts of high amperage.

My gut is telling me that the current your power reel draws is where the probable cause is.  It could also have been down to a faulty battery.

There are some manufacturers who are now making dual purpose batteries for the leisure market. This market includes caravan owners who use motor movers.

Numax are one battery supplier/manufacturer who advertises several of their 105/110 amp leisure batteries with a CCA value attached (CCA = cold cranking amps.) I've never been able to discover exactly what amps a power reel draws. I believe that they fit a 25 amp inline fuse so it won't be much less than the fuse they fit. (I know how Ohm's law works, but I'm not 100% sure if it applies to a 24v motor used on a 12v supply. The motor speed is halved, the torque is halved but I don't know if the amp draw remains at the 24v amount (14.5 amps for a 350 watt motor) or whether it doubles on the lower voltage.)

The millisecond you press the power reel start button is the moment there is a direct short in the motor before the motor starts to turn. That high amperage is much higher than the fuse rating, but as its momentarily the fuse wire doesn't get hot enough to melt or blow. (This is why they are termed as slow blow fuses.)

Numax will not action any warranty for a battery supplied to window cleaners as they term us battery abusers. But our experience with the brand has been excellent. I am quite happy to take on the risk myself.

The other thing is your battery charger. Is it a charger designed to charge leisure batteries?

One thing you will have to do is replace the battery.

.

I’d second what spruce says about chargers 

I’d recommend a Intelli chargers/discharges to get most out your batt 

I have norco charger and it’s amazing although I don’t need to use for my system I have used it to revive mine and families battery’s 

 

[spruce]

I find it rather sad that manufacturers of window cleaning products have sold them on the market but there is not a real good battery power solution. Yes you can wire them into your vehicle but if you dont do many miles you have a problem and obviously the ones on the market dont last long even if you religiously charge them every night. I use a charger for charging leisure batteries, I spent ages choosing one to ensure when I started using the tank and reel from WCW in the spring I did everything right. Surely in the age of rocket stations orbiting the earth we window cleaners can come up with a perfect solution for the power we need.  Guess we dont have solar power sussed and the sun isn't shining much at the moment.

Does anyone use two batteries, one charging on the bench and one in the van?

Any bright ideas appreciated from you folk with decades of experience PLEASE?

Necessity is the mother of invention. The 12v alternator saved the lead acid battery back in the 1960's when it started to replace the old 12v generator. I can remember the early days of my car owning experience with 6v generators and 6v batteries. (1960 DKW Auto Union and Volvo 122s.) We have an easly time with batteries nowadays.

Calcium technology is now taking over from lead acid as new vans with regenerative braking demand higher charge rates.

These Numax batteries in the previous post are an extension of that technology.

They say that Lithium Ion is the way forward. It maybe it is, but who of us is going to pay 9 times more for a battery?

In the years to come we could be using starter batteries as opposed to leisure batteries as their technology could end up suiting our application better. Trouble is that the cost of the calcium batteries is much more than the lead acid battery.

A feloow windie actually uses 2 batteries. 1 is a starter battery and the other is a leisure battery. Both are a similar capacity. He takes one out to charge it during the day and uses the charged 1 in his van that day. The leisure battery is more expensive but lasts him about 6 months longer, so that does justify the cost difference.

Most who run additional diesel heaters have a second battery to power that and 'spread' the load. A diesel heater will use a similar amount of power to an electric hose reel. But its all about cost and marketing.

.