Clarke CBM240E booster pump fittings help please

[ched999uk]

I'll double check when I'm home. When the membrane is flushing it's 12lpm which is the whole of the mains supply for house. ? Never happened with the 240e as always managwd yo have reduced flow at taps as was. More like 10.9-11.2lpm but now 5 mins every hour the cold supply is diverted to membrane....kids not happy when brushing their teeth lol.

When membrane is producing it's around 8lpm flow (previously it was 6.7lpm whilst producing so happy with flow from new pump) so about 60/40 waste to pure but I've played about with the gate valve since moving system out of van and wall mounting in garage. Once I've fitted the inflow pressure gauge I'll play about with it further to see if can get 50/50.

I don't think you are supposed to have the pump on while flushing!
12lpm is the max you are supposed to draw from the mains although some lucky households have more coming out of their taps. So if you have 12lpm flushing without the pump you are doing well.
To be honest if you have decent ratio, reasonable pure production and good rejection ratio then probably nothing to worry about.
You say 5mins per hour water is diverted to your membrane, can you not just process majority over night when it wouldn't effect anyone? It might be a bit of a worry if you can only store 1 days worth of pure but if you can store more than 1 days I would be tempted to process overnight. You do want a safety margin in case processing goes wrong one night as you wouldn't want to be without water and unable to work.

 

[Mattymarske]

I don't think you are supposed to have the pump on while flushing!
12lpm is the max you are supposed to draw from the mains although some lucky households have more coming out of their taps. So if you have 12lpm flushing without the pump you are doing well.
To be honest if you have decent ratio, reasonable pure production and good rejection ratio then probably nothing to worry about.
You say 5mins per hour water is diverted to your membrane, can you not just process majority over night when it wouldn't effect anyone? It might be a bit of a worry if you can only store 1 days worth of pure but if you can store more than 1 days I would be tempted to process overnight. You do want a safety margin in case processing goes wrong one night as you wouldn't want to be without water and unable to work.

Yes I think you're right I recall spruce saying you'd need a break tank to ensure you're not drawing more than permitted litres per minute.

It's an Xline auto fill and flush system so it's 5mins flush per hour. Anyone with an Xline fitted booster can they confirm if the booster switches off when it flushes? Can't see how it would unless the new controller has that timer Inbuilt. Mines from 2017 so can only control fill and flush and a pump. Booster just switches off when solenoid closes And pressure builds.

I have a reed float switch to cut power to the solenoid valves when tank is full but prefer to still be awake and manually turn off the tap and unplug booster just in case as in 2020 a pipe burst from the booster outlet and completely drenched everything in garage including consumer unit electric meter ???

Usually fill between 6 and 10pm or 7-10pm and for an hour in the morning.

 

[Mattymarske]

I don't think you are supposed to have the pump on while flushing!
12lpm is the max you are supposed to draw from the mains although some lucky households have more coming out of their taps. So if you have 12lpm flushing without the pump you are doing well.
To be honest if you have decent ratio, reasonable pure production and good rejection ratio then probably nothing to worry about.
You say 5mins per hour water is diverted to your membrane, can you not just process majority over night when it wouldn't effect anyone? It might be a bit of a worry if you can only store 1 days worth of pure but if you can store more than 1 days I would be tempted to process overnight. You do want a safety margin in case processing goes wrong one night as you wouldn't want to be without water and unable to work.

Just back now. Unimpeded flow without booster was 10.9lpm. With booster it touched 14.9lpm. ?

Garage tap pressure is a smidge under 60psi. CBP900 took it up to 106psi.

When I get the call from MachineMart with how much the CBM will cost to repair I'll do a comparison to see how much better it fares.

 

[Mattymarske]

Just back now. Unimpeded flow without booster was 10.9lpm. With booster it touched 14.9lpm. ?

Garage tap pressure is a smidge under 60psi. CBP900 took it up to 106psi.

When I get the call from MachineMart with how much the CBM will cost to repair I'll do a comparison to see how much better it fares.

That's what's inside the Xline fill and flush box. 2 Solenoid valves and a gate valve. It's a pain to work on. Would much prefer Spruce's set up eventually. I'll get some john guest pipe and spread things out so easier to fault find and install the inline tds meters and pressure gauge

As it's no longer a van mount had to buy an inverter/converter? To step down from 230v to 12v to power the v16/v15? controller

 

[ched999uk]

That's what's inside the Xline fill and flush box. 2 Solenoid valves and a gate valve. It's a pain to work on. Would much prefer Spruce's set up eventually. I'll get some john guest pipe and spread things out so easier to fault find and install the inline tds meters and pressure gauge

As it's no longer a van mount had to buy an inverter/converter? To step down from 230v to 12v to power the v16/v15? controller

It might be a bit difficult to see in the photos but I assume there is an earth on the 230v to 12vdc power supply? If not get on on asap as in the event of a fault the case could become live!!!!! Also get at least the orange cover flicked over the mains connections as a slip of the hand could see you getting 'bitten'!
The auto fill and flush looks nice and compact, looks like the restrictor valve is an inline ball valve, I guess the flush solenoid is the one with white wires?
I assume you have a way to keep it all above freezing when necessary?

 

[Iron Giant]

CBP900 = £227 cheaper and similar specs.

I know this is a resurrection of an old thread but booster pumps come up quite frequently.

I've used a CBM240E since January 2020 and it has been faultless in performance until a grinding noise last month and black swarf blocking my Solenoid valve on RO. On further inspection stripping it down I found a broken impeller 1 of the 4 it contains.

Rang Clarke for a spare one £28 delivered, and fitted it myself. Thought all was well but must've tightened shaft too much and now motor doesn't work- plug superheated and melted. Taken it to MachineMart for £24 assessment after putting new plug and loosened shaft nut but still humming noise and not working.

Long story short I needed pure water production quickly as tap pressure was 60psi but filling my tank in 14hrs....

Did some research and found the CBP900 with same auto control electric shut off in a smaller package. 16m smaller head and flow rate but minimal difference in performance of my RO.

Very similar specs and nearly £230 cheaper. Bought one and fitted it to RO 4040 system and now up and back to producing 3lpm pure. Very impressive. If it last 2-3 years it's served me well as couldn't stomach £396 again for a CNM240E.

Stats as below.

CBM240E
Flow rate up to 101 litres/min
Maximum head 48m
Electronic control unit provides auto start/stop and protects against dry running
Corrosion and rust proof construction
Longlife double insulated impeller
1000 watt, 230v motor


CBP900
Max Output: 97L/min
Maximum Head: 32m
Motor: 900W / 230V
Max Operating Pressure: 3.2bar
Auto-start when pressure falls below 1.5 bar
Dry running protection to maintain the pump's lift
Low noise - quiet operation

This looks like a good pump for less than £200, I have been considering one for my 40/21 as when Summer comes the water board usually reduce the water flow, so I might be better with a booster pump and just produce on an evening, ideally I prefer to have a JG fitting on the outlet as my R/O is all JG push fittings, what size thread is the outlet?

 

[spruce]

@ched999uk

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a booster pump will boost water pressure above what you already have. So if you have a booster pump drawing water from an IBC tank, for example, the maximum pressure you will get is 45psi.
But if the tap water pressure is 50psi, then the booster pump will raise that by 3.2 bar or 45psi. @Mattymarske photos seem to show that to be true.

BTW, I did once try to find that information for another post many years ago, but Google couldn't find it

 

[Mattymarske]

It might be a bit difficult to see in the photos but I assume there is an earth on the 230v to 12vdc power supply? If not get on on asap as in the event of a fault the case could become live!!!!! Also get at least the orange cover flicked over the mains connections as a slip of the hand could see you getting 'bitten'!
The auto fill and flush looks nice and compact, looks like the restrictor valve is an inline ball valve, I guess the flush solenoid is the one with white wires?
I assume you have a way to keep it all above freezing when necessary?

I spruce, do you mean a separate earth to the one from the plug cable? I've got a 3 prong plug with L, N and Earth wired in and then the 2 wires going to the controller on the 12v side (with inline fuse as well). Will that suffice or should I get some earth cable from and attach it to the casing like on some water tap? The case has got plenty of holes to attach it to things with nuts and bolts so should be able to.

To be honest that's what made me wary getting it as metal encased rather than a laptop/outside light plastic cased one. And you're right there a fold down plastic cover over the connection blocks otherwise that was another worry for me.

The 30A one has the built in fan. I just unplug it at the wall socket once van is full.

When the system was van mounted on the tank I'd use oil filled rad and duvet over the membrane and touch wood never frozen. The wall in the garage it's mounted to is the house wall and can leave a rad underneath it so hopefully next winter it'll be ok. ?

 

[ched999uk]

@ched999uk

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a booster pump will boost water pressure above what you already have. So if you have a booster pump drawing water from an IBC tank, for example, the maximum pressure you will get is 45psi.
But if the tap water pressure is 50psi, then the booster pump will raise that by 3.2 bar or 45psi. @Mattymarske photos seem to show that to be true.

BTW, I did once try to find that information for another post many years ago, but Google couldn't find it

Sounds logical. Although surely it will only spin as the motor max rpm therefore flow rate and is pressure mainly about seals once you have the flow? It always confuses me!

When we had water pressure/flow issues in our holiday apartments (3 story Victorian building) I did loads of research on booster systems and then a plumber found a solution that worked perfect with zero energy. It was a 400 litre accumulator - big steel cylinder with rubber bladder inside, that was pressurised at about 5psi less than mains supply. Basically mains pressure filled it and when the mains pressure dropped it pushed the water out of the accumulator to maintain flow, there was a 1 way valve on the mains inlet to the building. It worked very well - no complaints of low shower flow after it was fitted.
No idea why I just typed all that in as it's completely irrelevant

 

[ched999uk]

I spruce, do you mean a separate earth to the one from the plug cable? I've got a 3 prong plug with L, N and Earth wired in and then the 2 wires going to the controller on the 12v side (with inline fuse as well). Will that suffice or should I get some earth cable from and attach it to the casing like on some water tap? The case has got plenty of holes to attach it to things with nuts and bolts so should be able to.

To be honest that's what made me wary getting it as metal encased rather than a laptop/outside light plastic cased one. And you're right there a fold down plastic cover over the connection blocks otherwise that was another worry for me.

The 30A one has the built in fan. I just unplug it at the wall socket once van is full.

When the system was van mounted on the tank I'd use oil filled rad and duvet over the membrane and touch wood never frozen. The wall in the garage it's mounted to is the house wall and can leave a rad underneath it so hopefully next winter it'll be ok. ?

On the image of the 12v power supply I can see the blue and brow wires from mains but I can't see the earth wire. It looks like there is an earth terminal at the opposite end of the connectors (right end in image). But what ever way you do it the case MUST be earthed. Without an earth, if there was a failure inside it could connect the case to live! If you then touched it you would get a shock, coupled to the presence of lots of water that could be a deadly fault.

If you are just powering the v16 fill and flush controller it probably just needs a 12v 5amp supply like this 12v 5Amp with led connector It's not the cheapest but it comes with a 'led connector' which allows you to connect your controller to the psu without cutting any cables and invalidating a warranty. The LED connector is just a dc barrel socket with 2 terminals for your controller - Make 100% sure you have the correct polarity before connecting to controller as reverse polarity can kill some of them!

What ever you do get that case earthed asap!!!

 

[spruce]

Sounds logical. Although surely it will only spin as the motor max rpm therefore flow rate and is pressure mainly about seals once you have the flow? It always confuses me!

When we had water pressure/flow issues in our holiday apartments (3 story Victorian building) I did loads of research on booster systems and then a plumber found a solution that worked perfect with zero energy. It was a 400 litre accumulator - big steel cylinder with rubber bladder inside, that was pressurised at about 5psi less than mains supply. Basically mains pressure filled it and when the mains pressure dropped it pushed the water out of the accumulator to maintain flow, there was a 1 way valve on the mains inlet to the building. It worked very well - no complaints of low shower flow after it was fitted.
No idea why I just typed all that in as it's completely irrelevant

That's a solution in some situations. I bet he was an experienced plumber, not one who is called a plumber with a 6 week NVQ pass.

 

[ched999uk]

That's a solution in some situations. I bet he was an experienced plumber, not one who is called a plumber with a 6 week NVQ pass.

He was an ex forces, newly qualified but I think his training was by the forces as his leaving retraining package. It was a great solution as there was no power requirement and it was just in a cupboard on the landing. To be honest the whole building needed a replumb and a rewire - there was still a fair bit of lead pipes and rubber twin and earth cables (electrics passed their EICR every few years, well it did after I did about 2 months work correcting bodges ).
EICR was interesting as we had an old boy who knew the older regs and was happy to certify as long as it passed the tests, had a couple of younger chaps to quote and they wanted to rewire!

 

[spruce]

He was an ex forces, newly qualified but I think his training was by the forces as his leaving retraining package. It was a great solution as there was no power requirement and it was just in a cupboard on the landing. To be honest the whole building needed a replumb and a rewire - there was still a fair bit of lead pipes and rubber twin and earth cables (electrics passed their EICR every few years, well it did after I did about 2 months work correcting bodges ).
EICR was interesting as we had an old boy who knew the older regs and was happy to certify as long as it passed the tests, had a couple of younger chaps to quote and they wanted to rewire!

We used to sell Grundfos deep well borehole 220v submersible pumps back in the late 1960's in Africa. The pipe work would be connected directly into the house. We would use a pressure vessel or an accumulator to maintain water pressure at the tap. The vessel was big enough to fill a toilet cistern with water without the pressure dropping enough to trigger the borehole pump. If you wanted to run a bath full of water, then the borehole pump would take over shortly after you opened the taps.

It was a simple system that was cheaper to instal than one of those high level water tanks outside that gravity feed water into the house at a 'trickle'.

We also used to supply Grundfos pumps and solar panels out in areas where there was no electricity. In those cases, the purchaser needed to have a large storage tank that gravity feed the house's water requirements. The pump used to run most of the day as the sunshine was enough to power the pump. On those odd days of heavy cloud cover, there was usually enough water in the tank to last a few days.

This is a principal I employ with my r/o. I need to remove around 200 litres from my full IBC tank before the r/o starts to process water. If I only draw 150 litres, the r/o doesn't start.

 

[Iron Giant]

He was an ex forces, newly qualified but I think his training was by the forces as his leaving retraining package. It was a great solution as there was no power requirement and it was just in a cupboard on the landing. To be honest the whole building needed a replumb and a rewire - there was still a fair bit of lead pipes and rubber twin and earth cables (electrics passed their EICR every few years, well it did after I did about 2 months work correcting bodges ).
EICR was interesting as we had an old boy who knew the older regs and was happy to certify as long as it passed the tests, had a couple of younger chaps to quote and they wanted to rewire!

The dealings I've had with sparkies over two years was a bit unusual some just didn't want the work others did as when it suited them we went through a total of 4 because they all ended up not been bothered bar our last one who is an former royal marine,

we didn't need a complete rewire as the electrics passed when tested but we did our work in phases as needed which over two years meant our house has had a complete rewire.

 

[Iron Giant]

This looks like a good pump for less than £200, I have been considering one for my 40/21 as when Summer comes the water board usually reduce the water flow, so I might be better with a booster pump and just produce on an evening, ideally I prefer to have a JG fitting on the outlet as my R/O is all JG push fittings, what size thread is the outlet?

@Mattymarske as you missed this, I was just wondering if you could help me and also update me on how the pump has been performing for you. Thanks