'Cycling' problem I can't solve

[TimB]

Hello all, wanted to put up a video explaining but can't due to file size.

I've been using this setup for 8 months no problem, bought from another window cleaner ready made.

The last day of this week it just put up a de message and wouldn't work. Short version is, after hours of checking joints, sucking water through, I was shown how to auto calibrate by a friend.

This helps the system actually work better, but it still cycles on and off. I can clean but is driving me insane and slowing me down. At this point, it gets better when it's on for a while, but still dead ends a few times per house. (Cleaned my own to test). I tug the hose to shut the valve. When I next turn it on dead end cycling repeats again. It's worse when I leave the van for a while, needs an auto calibrate just to work. 

My friend recommends an 8mm over my 6mm hose but it's been fine for ages through some cold weather, so I don't think that would solve it. All joints are not dripping, can't figure it out. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

 

[spruce]

Hello all, wanted to put up a video explaining but can't due to file size.

I've been using this setup for 8 months no problem, bought from another window cleaner ready made.

The last day of this week it just put up a de message and wouldn't work. Short version is, after hours of checking joints, sucking water through, I was shown how to auto calibrate by a friend.

This helps the system actually work better, but it still cycles on and off. I can clean but is driving me insane and slowing me down. At this point, it gets better when it's on for a while, but still dead ends a few times per house. (Cleaned my own to test). I tug the hose to shut the valve. When I next turn it on dead end cycling repeats again. It's worse when I leave the van for a while, needs an auto calibrate just to work. 

My friend recommends an 8mm over my 6mm hose but it's been fine for ages through some cold weather, so I don't think that would solve it. All joints are not dripping, can't figure it out. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

View attachment 26334

If you are getting the DE signal then you need to increase your calibration setting. Try doing another auto reset with the water flowing at a higher flow rate than you would normally use. If you are happy with a flow rate of 50 then up it to 60 and then auto recalibrate.

You can also raise the calibration level manually. If its on 30 now for example, then raise it to 40 and see what happens.

You will need to have a higher calibration setting when using microbore than if you used minibore. I did an amp draw test a couple of years ago using the same pump and same controller and the same flow rate and the pump needed more amps using microbore. I can't remember the figures now. These controllers use amp draw to set DE (dead end).

You will find all the info here:

https://springltd.co/faq-two

https://springltd.co/videos

Your controller is the V11 series.

 

[TimB]

If you are getting the DE signal then you need to increase your calibration setting. Try doing another auto reset with the water flowing at a higher flow rate than you would normally use. If you are happy with a flow rate of 50 then up it to 60 and then auto recalibrate.

You can also raise the calibration level manually. If its on 30 now for example, then raise it to 40 and see what happens.

You will need to have a higher calibration setting when using microbore than if you used minibore. I did an amp draw test a couple of years ago using the same pump and same controller and the same flow rate and the pump needed more amps using microbore. I can't remember the figures now. These controllers use amp draw to set DE (dead end).

Thanks! I did set it manually before I know about the auto process but it didn't help. My friend was leaving it at 30 odd flow rate before the auto process, so I'll try a higher flow before starting it next time. 

I'm still new to wfp (trad for 25 years), so don't know the lingo yet. By microbore you mean the 6mm ID I'm using?  So you think switching to an 8mm for my 100 m hose would help the issue? My batteries are leisure batteries, thinking of changing to a car battery

 

[spruce]

Some other advice @TimB. Please get your tank secured with a proper steel frame with spreader plates underneath asap. Its all about your safety and those of your family. ? Thank you.

We need everyone in our industry to be as safe as possible.

 

[Den]

Check the filter bowl they can get clogged up also. 

 

[spruce]

Thanks! I did set it manually before I know about the auto process but it didn't help. My friend was leaving it at 30 odd flow rate before the auto process, so I'll try a higher flow before starting it next time. 

I'm still new to wfp (trad for 25 years), so don't know the lingo yet. By microbore you mean the 6mm ID I'm using?  So you think switching to an 8mm for my 100 m hose would help the issue? My batteries are leisure batteries, thinking of changing to a car battery

Microbore = 6mm id. Minibore = 8mm id.

I have a hose reel of each size hose on the van. I find it easier to work with microbore as its lighter to lift in and out of the van. Our hose reels aren't fixed. Microbore is also easier to use, but then I'm old. In the old days Shurflo wouldn't warranty a pump used on any hose less than 1/2" bore size. So I opted for minibore and have used that for some 14 years. It's only in the last few years that I have tried microbore. Thanks @dazmond.

There has been much info posted in the last couple of days regarding batteries. Personally, I would stick to a quality leisure battery.

Check on the NCC verified battery register for your battery to see how it performs. We have had good use from Numax class B batteries. For those with electric hose reels, they need a good quality leisure combination battery with a CCA rating. (CCA = cold cranking amps). A standard leisure battery can't be used to start an engine.

 

[TimB]

Some other advice @TimB. Please get your tank secured with a proper steel frame with spreader plates underneath asap. Its all about your safety and those of your family. ? Thank you.

We need everyone in our industry to be as safe as possible.

I absolutely intend to do this. Its strapped in and secured all around but I want to do what you've said. Trouble is, I'm not DIY savvy, so I'm trying to enlist some help from some mates who are. I will get it done though.

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Hello all, wanted to put up a video explaining but can't due to file size.

I've been using this setup for 8 months no problem, bought from another window cleaner ready made.

The last day of this week it just put up a de message and wouldn't work. Short version is, after hours of checking joints, sucking water through, I was shown how to auto calibrate by a friend.

This helps the system actually work better, but it still cycles on and off. I can clean but is driving me insane and slowing me down. At this point, it gets better when it's on for a while, but still dead ends a few times per house. (Cleaned my own to test). I tug the hose to shut the valve. When I next turn it on dead end cycling repeats again. It's worse when I leave the van for a while, needs an auto calibrate just to work. 

My friend recommends an 8mm over my 6mm hose but it's been fine for ages through some cold weather, so I don't think that would solve it. All joints are not dripping, can't figure it out. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

View attachment 26334

From what I can see from the photo, Having a lay flat tank won't help matters. All the hose connectors look okay

I'd check the health of your battery, it's actual capacity and charge to ensure you are not running it at the end of it's life 

 

[Pjj]

Thanks! I did set it manually before I know about the auto process but it didn't help. My friend was leaving it at 30 odd flow rate before the auto process, so I'll try a higher flow before starting it next time. 

I'm still new to wfp (trad for 25 years), so don't know the lingo yet. By microbore you mean the 6mm ID I'm using?  So you think switching to an 8mm for my 100 m hose would help the issue? My batteries are leisure batteries, thinking of changing to a car battery

Stick with the 6 m and just do as spruce said increase the calibration and it will be fine 

 

[TimB]

Stick with the 6 m and just do as spruce said increase the calibration and it will be fine 

Thanks, I think I will stick with it. I have my reel 75% out sometimes so don't want anything too heavy. 

I've done the auto calibration but with the higher flow rate before starting and it seems to have improved so that's great. It still deadends every time I turn it on (open the valve), but only for a few seconds and then it's fine until I turn it off. No cycling.

Maybe I need to set it even higher and then auto calibrate, but at least I can actually clean some windows Monday. If it doesn't go wrong again!

 

[spruce]

Thanks, I think I will stick with it. I have my reel 75% out sometimes so don't want anything too heavy. 

I've done the auto calibration but with the higher flow rate before starting and it seems to have improved so that's great. It still deadends every time I turn it on (open the valve), but only for a few seconds and then it's fine until I turn it off. No cycling.

Maybe I need to set it even higher and then auto calibrate, but at least I can actually clean some windows Monday. If it doesn't go wrong again!

Up it a few points more until it works as you want it.

I don't have Spring controllers, rather the now unavailable Varistreams. I have to adjust calibration from time to time.

 

[windowsurfer]

I got the higher flow shurflo pump can't remember if it's 7litre per minute n bought the v16 controller to spray biocide, but had DE problems with 30m hose despite calibration seemed to be calibrating to 68 when following calibration instructions. Need to play with it more. Much prefer analogue controllers. 

 

[spruce]

I got the higher flow shurflo pump can't remember if it's 7litre per minute n bought the v16 controller to spray biocide, but had DE problems with 30m hose despite calibration seemed to be calibrating to 68 when following calibration instructions. Need to play with it more. Much prefer analogue controllers. 

The technical guru at Williamson pumps once told that Varistreams were designed are the current draw of a 5.2lpm Shurflo pump. 

Pumps with higher delivery use more current and this is where dead end becomes difficult. It's the same with anyone using a Varistream (I would imagine a Spring controller as well) on say a small backpack pump. The pump doesn't draw enough current for the controllers to work.