Doing it wrong….

[Beeejayteee]

It’s been an interesting read going through all the replies so I thought I might as well put my Pennies worth in. My customers are very relaxed when it comes to my cycle, they all know that I will turn up but the weather , especially where I live, north west of England, massively affects my work. I have 6 weeks of work for my son and myself and so of course when the weather is bad that stretches. I never get complaints about the time just sympathy for having to try and work with the conditions. You know your customers, will they be that upset if you extended the time between? It has been said a couple of times that you will need more work, you won’t, you just do your round and start again, if it takes 5 weeks to do all your work in a more relaxed fashion, then it takes 5 weeks, what’s the problem? We do have a structure to our work, we work 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
As to WFP I had an advantage, I fell off my ladder after 44 years of safe traditional cleaning, so my reason for the change was safety and nearly all my customers were on board with it. I use a self made trolley system with barrels, i find easy to use and convenient, I change a barrel in two minutes and off I go again . My advice to you is relax, to me you’re Over thinking it and talking yourself into issue that probably don’t exist or may not be as bad as you expect.

 

[Part Timer]

What is TFR? Is that a daft question

One of the workers on a commercial job saw me using the water fed pole once and asked me if I was using ‘zero gravity water’ don’t know where he got that name from.

Traffic Film Remover

 

[DansClearView]

I'm usually out the house for 7 hours or so, 25 houses yes usually semis and detached but variations across the days,

I don't flog on most days I just go whatever pace I want, some days I can do 30 houses on really compact stuff other days less than 20 with big detached houses and semi-detached

I've been going 18 months now so perhaps still a little inexperienced but I've got a van & delivery system.
What I can't fathom is how anyone can do 25 houses in a day. Perhaps if they were all lined up in a row but that's a round that's gonna take some getting. On top of which, I'd be knackered.
I'm lucky prices are decent (I think) where I am. £15 upwards 2 bed semi, that sort of thing.
I'm happy if I can clear £200-£250 a day (with the variety of size houses that doesn't need to be 10 @ £20 etc) - 8:30/9:00 ish start (once dog walked & kids in school) till around 4.
I appreciate there are ups and downs in the year in terms of ability to work/unexpected costs but that figure keeps me under the 40% bracket.
If I did 25 houses a day I'd be well above (well, when the book is full).

 

[DS WC west midlands]

What is TFR? Is that a daft question

One of the workers on a commercial job saw me using the water fed pole once and asked me if I was using ‘zero gravity water’ don’t know where he got that name from.

TFR, traffic film remover, you can use it on a first clean, it takes off all that nasty carbon and makes the frames look a lot better than just water.

more like a restoration clean... Zero Gravity lmao probably been watching too much StarTrek

 

[DS WC west midlands]

I've been going 18 months now so perhaps still a little inexperienced but I've got a van & delivery system.
What I can't fathom is how anyone can do 25 houses in a day. Perhaps if they were all lined up in a row but that's a round that's gonna take some getting. On top of which, I'd be knackered.
I'm lucky prices are decent (I think) where I am. £15 upwards 2 bed semi, that sort of thing.
I'm happy if I can clear £200-£250 a day (with the variety of size houses that doesn't need to be 10 @ £20 etc) - 8:30/9:00 ish start (once dog walked & kids in school) till around 4.
I appreciate there are ups and downs in the year in terms of ability to work/unexpected costs but that figure keeps me under the 40% bracket.
If I did 25 houses a day I'd be well above (well, when the book is full).

Yeah 25 houses a day Sounds off to me, but There are three types of window cleaners,
they are.
Trad cleaners, they take between 10-15 minutes to clean a house
Restoration wfp cleaners, they take around 20-30 minutes to clean a house as they do all the little extras
Splash & dash wfp cleaners, they effectively just rinse the glass & leave 5-10 minutes per house.

each to there own, i know witch one i would hire, but you do pay more for restoration guys..
what type of cleaner you are, is determined by your customers & the area you live in, plus what the majority of the customer expects of the clean..

If you do splash & dash you will likely make a lot of money very quickly but you risk the quality of your cleans for quantity, this can work out for some, but in my area those ppl go bust quickly.

you can do 30 cleans a day just rinsing the glass it's totally possible, but you will have to put up with customers telling you off for not doing the frames at some point...

it was not until i started doing restoration style work, that my business started to work out with long term loyal customers sticking around, of course i charge more for the extra time..

its a choice you can do either model, but i find splash & dash a bit of a lazy way to do the job and customers don't typically value your services as much, so they will cancel at the last minute or make excuses of the weather being bad that morning lmao then the sun comes out in the afternoon & you wasted a day..

You have to ask yourself do you want customers that stay loyal for years or do you want customers that will let you down all the time. tip if you do restoration jobs charge extra for the first TFR clean & limit your round to ten cleans a day, charge between £25-£30 per month. as detailing and extras will cost you some time..

 

[Iron Giant]

Yeah 25 houses a day Sounds off to me, but There are three types of window cleaners,
they are.
Trad cleaners, they take between 10-15 minutes to clean a house
Restoration wfp cleaners, they take around 20-30 minutes to clean a house as they do all the little extras
Splash & dash wfp cleaners, they effectively just rinse the glass & leave 5-10 minutes per house.

each to there own, i know witch one i would hire

If you do splash & dash you will likely make a lot of money very quickly but you risk the quality of your cleans for quantity, this can work out for some, but in my area those ppl go bust quickly.

Are you taking the pish, how are 25 houses a day not achievable I have been in the industry for almost 30 years, I will have been in business 25 years next year and I have been wfp for over 16 years I work to a high standard and I do certainly not do a splash and dash job, but I don't do restoration jobs I'm not going to stand at every job every 4 weeks with a magic sponge and some cream cleaner.

The majority of my jobs are working full days on the same estate doing up to 10 houses in a row on the same street if you are riding around doing 2-3 jobs or single isolated jobs then your numbers are going to be lower this is a fact.

 

[Iron Giant]

I've been going 18 months now so perhaps still a little inexperienced but I've got a van & delivery system.
What I can't fathom is how anyone can do 25 houses in a day. Perhaps if they were all lined up in a row but that's a round that's gonna take some getting. On top of which, I'd be knackered.
I'm lucky prices are decent (I think) where I am. £15 upwards 2 bed semi, that sort of thing.
I'm happy if I can clear £200-£250 a day (with the variety of size houses that doesn't need to be 10 @ £20 etc) - 8:30/9:00 ish start (once dog walked & kids in school) till around 4.
I appreciate there are ups and downs in the year in terms of ability to work/unexpected costs but that figure keeps me under the 40% bracket.
If I did 25 houses a day I'd be well above (well, when the book is full).

It's very easily achievable without being knackered, I'm a bit like you I'm up early take the dog for a walk and get out to work at a similar time, I work thoroughly and efficiently, and some days I will work till after 4pm if it suits me but that's rare.

I was in the 40% bracket but with some clever accounting I'm now out of that, my wife went to work part-time hours in her new PAYE job, so she is a partner in the business and takes a percentage of the profit which keeps me out of 40% but with the benefit of boosting our household income as my tax bill reduced considerably

 

[spruce]

Here is my penny's worth as well and is my opinion based on my experience.

If the majority of your work is trad, swapping over to wfp is definitely going to speed up your clean rate. But you aren't going to do it with a backpack. You need a van mounted system.

I don't know how you go about your trad clean @Nosey but the trad round we purchased was done glass only with a casual wipe of the sills. The frames were filthy. The cleaning schedule was every 2 weeks. We found that once the windows had had a good scrub, we then got numerous customers asking us to 'leave it this time as the windows are still clean'. Eventually I changed the cleaning schedule to 4 weeks and then 6 weeks when I canvassed for more customers. We also got caught with pricing. Customers who went to a longer cleaning schedule didn't want to hear about a price adjustment. We lost a few over this. So if you do change your cleaning schedule, set your stall out at the same time.

So I expect you could get the same response. We did get a few cancellations, not many though, as wfp wasn't the standard cleaning method 20 years ago. My answer was that as my health came first, and as I had already experienced a fall from a ladder at height, I wasn't going to make any exceptions for any who still wanted trad cleaning.

This round was fairly compact, so once I got wfp experience, I could clean 25 x 3 bed semis a day.

 

[DS WC west midlands]

Are you taking the pish, how are 25 houses a day not achievable I have been in the industry for almost 30 years, I will have been in business 25 years next year and I have been wfp for over 16 years I work to a high standard and I do certainly not do a splash and dash job, but I don't do restoration jobs I'm not going to stand at every job every 4 weeks with a magic sponge and some cream cleaner.

The majority of my jobs are working full days on the same estate doing up to 10 houses in a row on the same street if you are riding around doing 2-3 jobs or single isolated jobs then your numbers are going to be lower this is a fact.

Well you clearly did not read my whole post, before you lost your rag to reply, please re-read it and get back to me, if at all... i also said

"quote, you can do 30 cleans a day just rinsing the glass it's totally possible, but you will have to put up with customers telling you off for not doing the frames at some point"

You see we tried your method many years ago & lost loads of customers, spent more time arguing with customers than actually doing the work.. So you will for give me if i have had a different experience that you personally don't agree with, like or understand..

but it works just fine for me 10 cleans a day for two weeks do some detailing with some chems when needed, £2,000+ a month, i mean i can't complain, plus i do a lot of other work i enjoy so i earn roughly 3-4 grand a month...

That after ditching your advice... who knew

 

[panescrubber]

What is TFR? Is that a daft question

One of the workers on a commercial job saw me using the water fed pole once and asked me if I was using ‘zero gravity water’ don’t know where he got that name from.

I guess he meant TDS (total dissolved solids) per million 000

 

[Scrubsy]

Here is my penny's worth as well and is my opinion based on my experience.

If the majority of your work is trad, swapping over to wfp is definitely going to speed up your clean rate. But you aren't going to do it with a backpack. You need a van mounted system.

This is it exactly . The amount of traditional jobs you can get done is probably very good. I do both traditional and wfp. I use a backpack for wfp as I'm unable to afford a van and system. This means I have to be selective as to what jobs I can do on which days. If I have a day of low level bungalows I can squeegee though, I can do quite a lot of work done in comparison. With the backpack - and how much water I can carry - it can be a bit restrictive, but I can get the work done fairly quickly. For me it would be ideally a van first, followed by a system and tank. As I'm not able to afford a van I think I'm going to build a pump box and reel and quicken up my wfp work again - and means less faffing about keeping refilling the backpack all the time (which can get frustrating).

 

[THL4KEL]

Well you clearly did not read my whole post, before you lost your rag to reply, please re-read it and get back to me, if at all... i also said

"quote, you can do 30 cleans a day just rinsing the glass it's totally possible, but you will have to put up with customers telling you off for not doing the frames at some point"

You see we tried your method many years ago & lost loads of customers, spent more time arguing with customers than actually doing the work.. So you will for give me if i have had a different experience that you personally don't agree with, like or understand..

but it works just fine for me 10 cleans a day for two weeks do some detailing with some chems when needed, £2,000+ a month, i mean i can't complain, plus i do a lot of other work i enjoy so i earn roughly 3-4 grand a month...

That after ditching your advice... who knew

25 houses a day cleaning frames and glass and getting a bit of degreaser or magic sponge out is not hard, especially once you've done a good first clean. The maintenance cleans are easy.

 

[spruce]

This is it exactly . The amount of traditional jobs you can get done is probably very good. I do both traditional and wfp. I use a backpack for wfp as I'm unable to afford a van and system. This means I have to be selective as to what jobs I can do on which days. If I have a day of low level bungalows I can squeegee though, I can do quite a lot of work done in comparison. With the backpack - and how much water I can carry - it can be a bit restrictive, but I can get the work done fairly quickly. For me it would be ideally a van first, followed by a system and tank. As I'm not able to afford a van I think I'm going to build a pump box and reel and quicken up my wfp work again - and means less faffing about keeping refilling the backpack all the time (which can get frustrating).

One of the local lads I know has towed a small trailer with his Mondeo. He started off about 16 years ago with a Citroen Picasso, then this trailer with his first Mondeo and then the second current Mondeo. I counted 15 barrels in his trailer once. Now he has a tank in his trailer with additional barrels of water, a hose reel and pump box with battery. His pole and a small stepladder in the car.
He manages fine.

 

[Jaygti]

I've been going 18 months now so perhaps still a little inexperienced but I've got a van & delivery system.
What I can't fathom is how anyone can do 25 houses in a day. Perhaps if they were all lined up in a row but that's a round that's gonna take some getting. On top of which, I'd be knackered.
I'm lucky prices are decent (I think) where I am. £15 upwards 2 bed semi, that sort of thing.
I'm happy if I can clear £200-£250 a day (with the variety of size houses that doesn't need to be 10 @ £20 etc) - 8:30/9:00 ish start (once dog walked & kids in school) till around 4.
I appreciate there are ups and downs in the year in terms of ability to work/unexpected costs but that figure keeps me under the 40% bracket.
If I did 25 houses a day I'd be well above (well, when the book is full).

I’m not knocking, but at £200 a day, it’s hardly worth bothering, unless it’s all cash.

Take out tax, business expenses, holidays , pension payments, sick pay ,bad weather etc, and you’d probably earn more at Tescos

 

[Iron Giant]

Well you clearly did not read my whole post, before you lost your rag to reply, please re-read it and get back to me, if at all... i also said

"quote, you can do 30 cleans a day just rinsing the glass it's totally possible, but you will have to put up with customers telling you off for not doing the frames at some point"

You see we tried your method many years ago & lost loads of customers, spent more time arguing with customers than actually doing the work.. So you will for give me if i have had a different experience that you personally don't agree with, like or understand..

but it works just fine for me 10 cleans a day for two weeks do some detailing with some chems when needed, £2,000+ a month, i mean i can't complain, plus i do a lot of other work i enjoy so i earn roughly 3-4 grand a month...

That after ditching your advice... who knew

To clarify, I do a full and thorough clean of all the frames glass sills and doors on every clean, I don't just rinse glass.

You jumped to a conclusion and assumed that all I'm doing is rinsing the glass, what type of clown just does that and considers it a window clean

You are throwing insults my way based on your own assumptions which are based on what, your imagination.

 

[Pjj]

Yeah 25 houses a day Sounds off to me, but There are three types of window cleaners,
they are.
Trad cleaners, they take between 10-15 minutes to clean a house
Restoration wfp cleaners, they take around 20-30 minutes to clean a house as they do all the little extras
Splash & dash wfp cleaners, they effectively just rinse the glass & leave 5-10 minutes per house.

each to there own, i know witch one i would hire, but you do pay more for restoration guys..
what type of cleaner you are, is determined by your customers & the area you live in, plus what the majority of the customer expects of the clean..

If you do splash & dash you will likely make a lot of money very quickly but you risk the quality of your cleans for quantity, this can work out for some, but in my area those ppl go bust quickly.

you can do 30 cleans a day just rinsing the glass it's totally possible, but you will have to put up with customers telling you off for not doing the frames at some point...

it was not until i started doing restoration style work, that my business started to work out with long term loyal customers sticking around, of course i charge more for the extra time..

its a choice you can do either model, but i find splash & dash a bit of a lazy way to do the job and customers don't typically value your services as much, so they will cancel at the last minute or make excuses of the weather being bad that morning lmao then the sun comes out in the afternoon & you wasted a day..

You have to ask yourself do you want customers that stay loyal for years or do you want customers that will let you down all the time. tip if you do restoration jobs charge extra for the first TFR clean & limit your round to ten cleans a day, charge between £25-£30 per month. as detailing and extras will cost you some time..

If you spend the time on the first clean doing a good job , all maintenance cleans after are quick and easy , I view first cleans as a future time saving benefit if the first clean take a lot longer I don’t mind as we charge double the normal price so we are still earning good money .

 

[Pjj]

Are you taking the pish, how are 25 houses a day not achievable I have been in the industry for almost 30 years, I will have been in business 25 years next year and I have been wfp for over 16 years I work to a high standard and I do certainly not do a splash and dash job, but I don't do restoration jobs I'm not going to stand at every job every 4 weeks with a magic sponge and some cream cleaner.

The majority of my jobs are working full days on the same estate doing up to 10 houses in a row on the same street if you are riding around doing 2-3 jobs or single isolated jobs then your numbers are going to be lower this is a fact.

Good job he doesn’t know how many a day we do then

 

[Pjj]

25 houses a day cleaning frames and glass and getting a bit of degreaser or magic sponge out is not hard, especially once you've done a good first clean. The maintenance cleans are easy.

If doing a thorough first clean all maintenance cleans are a doddle , we hypo most first cleans and usually the frames come up like new .

 

[ched999uk]

we hypo most first cleans and usually the frames come up like new

I keep thinking of doing that but I'm so messy I would be covered in it and wreck my work clothes , not to mention getting it in my eyes!

 

[DansClearView]

I’m not knocking, but at £200 a day, it’s hardly worth bothering, unless it’s all cash.

Take out tax, business expenses, holidays , pension payments, sick pay ,bad weather etc, and you’d probably earn more at Tescos

That's a nice thought. But I used to work for Lidl who pay more than Tesco and I'm taking home way more now off my own graft. I did get some assistance with the van purchase admittedly which will need upgrading in the future, but even with the expected monthly expense of that I will still be on more per hour/week than Lidl - plus no early starts/late finishes and the ability to put my family first if they need me without having to negotiate time off on an already stretched rota.
Now I've got the initial pole, brush, gutter vac expenses paid off, I'm hoping to start putting money by for the business and not just for the taxman.

 

[Scrubsy]

That's a nice thought. But I used to work for Lidl who pay more than Tesco and I'm taking home way more now off my own graft. I did get some assistance with the van purchase admittedly which will need upgrading in the future, but even with the expected monthly expense of that I will still be on more per hour/week than Lidl - plus no early starts/late finishes and the ability to put my family first if they need me without having to negotiate time off on an already stretched rota.
Now I've got the initial pole, brush, gutter vac expenses paid off, I'm hoping to start putting money by for the business and not just for the taxman.

This is my view. I've had some jobs that have you working shifts, late evenings, nights, weekends etc. My first aim was to earn more than those jobs were paying (after taking off my expenses aswell). No more shifts, no more being told what to do. It freed me up to help look after my grandmother who was terminally ill at the time I started, and for being with my kids before school and picking them up, which meant so much to me.