Facelift hot water system

[Pjj]

The plan is two run x2 batteries separately.

How often do you think I would have to charge a battery for just the diesel heater?

If it was every night could i get away with leave the battery connected and charging on a night whilst it may have the blower working? Trying to get my head around best way of doing things before installing

@spruce it the technical guru not me but the boilers pull a lot of current with a 120 amp battery I think probably every night it’s used as you don’t want to run the battery to low or it will damage it

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Thanks to all that have helped

 

[ched999uk]

I think most of the diesel heaters pull about 14Amps on startup then throttle down to about 5Amps. So if you run 8hrs that's a minimum of 40AH So about 66% of a 120Ah battery's capacity!
As long as the batteries are the same type and same voltage (especially when connecting) you should be able to connect them in parallel (with fuses close to the +ve leads on each battery) and then hook the charger up to both. They will then both be charged at the same time. Obviously if one battery has a fault it could drain the other!
I would say you will need to mains charge each night, depending on where you can park, that can mean charging them in the van. I park on my drive and have an extension lead running into the back of the van to power booster pump when filling and to power my Numax fit and forget charger.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

I think most of the diesel heaters pull about 14Amps on startup then throttle down to about 5Amps. So if you run 8hrs that's a minimum of 40AH So about 66% of a 120Ah battery's capacity!
As long as the batteries are the same type and same voltage (especially when connecting) you should be able to connect them in parallel (with fuses close to the +ve leads on each battery) and then hook the charger up to both. They will then both be charged at the same time. Obviously if one battery has a fault it could drain the other!
I would say you will need to mains charge each night, depending on where you can park, that can mean charging them in the van. I park on my drive and have an extension lead running into the back of the van to power booster pump when filling and to power my Numax fit and forget charger.

I think I will get it all running and then swap the split charge onto the diesel heater. And then charge pump battery overnight possibly the best way. Without killing batteries.

Thank you for the above info.

 

[spruce]

I charge my battery every night @marlowswindows as I only have one 105amp combo battery for 2 pumps and a diesel heater.

The tip given is to start your van first and then switch the diesel heater on. Your alternator will cover your initial start current draw via your split charge relay. If you have a way to go, then stop en-route. Obviously you don't want your heater switching off after it has reached full temperature, as it will just draw current restarting.
The diesel heater stopping and starting numerous times through the day isn't good for the heater and will quickly flatten your battery, especially if you aren't charging it every night.

I fitted a two man system to my van. My heater has 2 heat exchangers. I also fitted a third heat exchanger with a 12v digital temperature cooling controller and a third Shurflo pump. The controller is set so it starts the 3rd Shurflo pump at 83 degrees C and switches off at 78 degrees C. This temperature range is where the heater sits in a low heat output. What this does is lets me stop working and talk all day without the heater switching off. It dumps that hot water it bleeds off back into the tank. I don't want it to run all day on tickover, as the burn chamber will soon coke up with soot.

These heaters work much better when they are on full burn. Our power draw varies from day to day, so we aren't able to give you an exact daily consumption. The most I have drawn from my battery was 48% of the battery's capacity, starting at full charge in the morning. The van didn't move all day. However, that's not the norm. With normal residential we could be around 20 amps down, but that is with the van being moved.

We have never done enough mileage a day to fully recharge our leisure batteries on any wfp van we have had, and that's without the diesel heater.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

I charge my battery every night @marlowswindows as I only have one 105amp combo battery for 2 pumps and a diesel heater.

The tip given is to start your van first and then switch the diesel heater on. Your alternator will cover your initial start current draw via your split charge relay. If you have a way to go, then stop en-route. Obviously you don't want your heater switching off after it has reached full temperature, as it will just draw current restarting.
The diesel heater stopping and starting numerous times through the day isn't good for the heater and will quickly flatten your battery, especially if you aren't charging it every night.

I fitted a two man system to my van. My heater has 2 heat exchangers. I also fitted a third heat exchanger with a 12v digital temperature cooling controller and a third Shurflo pump. The controller is set so it starts the 3rd Shurflo pump at 83 degrees C and switches off at 78 degrees C. This temperature range is where the heater sits in a low heat output. What this does is lets me stop working and talk all day without the heater switching off. It dumps that hot water it bleeds off back into the tank. I don't want it to run all day on tickover, as the burn chamber will soon coke up with soot.

These heaters work much better when they are on full burn. Our power draw varies from day to day, so we aren't able to give you an exact daily consumption. The most I have drawn from my battery was 48% of the battery's capacity, starting at full charge in the morning. The van didn't move all day. However, that's not the norm. With normal residential we could be around 20 amps down, but that is with the van being moved.

We have never done enough mileage a day to fully recharge our leisure batteries on any wfp van we have had.

Perfect thank you. My plan was to use it like a combi boiler water on demand each time but after ready this I'm guessing I will end up damaging it.

Would it be OK to run most if the day but have the blower blowing hot air whilst traveling then turning on hot water once at next job.

 

[spruce]

Perfect thank you. My plan was to use it like a combi boiler water on demand each time but after ready this I'm guessing I will end up damaging it.

Would it be OK to run most if the day but have the blower blowing hot air whilst traveling then turning on hot water once at next job.

I'm not sure how you would do that. A couple of single users on this forum have bought a twin operator system. They run the second pump back to the wfp tank at a slow rate, say 20 to 30 on their controllers, which helps to bleed that excess heat off. One of the suppliers offered an add-on that was another heat exchanger with a fan blower, like a car radiator. When the frostat on the controller kicks in at 2 degrees C to stop the heater freezing up, it also circulated warm air around the van.
Most plumb their hose reels in so the boiler not only heats up the internal hot water system to prevent freezing, they also direct a flow of hot water around the hose reels and back to the tank to keep the reels from freezing up.

I don't have that option, although it could be an easy add-on. I also put an 800 watt electric heater into the van which kicks on around 3 degrees and switches off around 6 degrees. That heater sits at the rear doors, so keeps the hose reels from freezing up. My diesel heater automatically switches on when the internal temperature inside the heater drops to 3 degrees. It switches off when the internal temperature reaches around 78 degrees C. Despite having an electric thermostatically controlled heater in the van, having the diesel heater controller on as well is double security. (Those heat exchangers aren't cheap, and there are 2 of them.)
Motor Home Plate Heat Exchanger with Mixer Valve | 4111209A

In the middle of winter, my diesel heater might switch on only twice.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

I'm not sure how you would do that. A couple of single users on this forum have bought a twin operator system. They run the second pump back to the wfp tank at a slow rate, say 20 to 30 on their controllers, which helps to bleed that excess heat off. One of the suppliers offered an add-on that was another heat exchanger with a fan blower, like a car radiator. When the frostat on the controller kicks in at 2 degrees C to stop the heater freezing up, it also circulated warm air around the van.
Most plumb their hose reels in so the boiler not only heats up the internal hot water system to prevent freezing, they also direct a flow of hot water around the hose reels and back to the tank to keep the reels from freezing up.

I don't have that option, although it could be an easy add-on. I also put an 800 watt electric heater into the van which kicks on around 3 degrees and switches off around 6 degrees. That heater sits at the rear doors, so keeps the hose reels from freezing up. My diesel heater automatically switches on when the internal temperature inside the heater drops to 3 degrees. It switches off when the internal temperature reaches around 78 degrees C. Despite having an electric thermostatically controlled heater in the van, having the diesel heater controller on as well is double security. (Those heat exchangers aren't cheap, and there are 2 of them.)
Motor Home Plate Heat Exchanger with Mixer Valve | 4111209A

In the middle of winter, my diesel heater might switch on only twice.

Complete nightmare this I wish somebody local had the set up. It seems the further I go getting help the more I put myself of ?

 

[spruce]

Grippatank are down south and Purefreedom is in Hull.

The thermostat controllers are a Spring controller with a built in thermostat to activate the boiler. This controller is also your pump controller, so has 2 functions. It's just not that complicated tbh, even though it does seem that way. It's the same controller that kicks on your Shurflo pump that will pump warm water around your hose reel, but instead of it going to your pole, it's diverted back to the tank.

The most complicated issue is plumbing the diesel standpipe into the diesel tank of the van. In the old days, the diesel return to the tank was the ideal place to plumb the heater in on most vans, but this is a bit more complex with newer vans. Sometimes the diesel tank needs to be lowered/dropped. In my case, I had to remove the diesel pump/fuel level cage and drill a hole in that for a takeoff, careful not to obstruct the operation of the fuel level float gauge.

 

[Pjj]

Perfect thank you. My plan was to use it like a combi boiler water on demand each time but after ready this I'm guessing I will end up damaging it.

Would it be OK to run most if the day but have the blower blowing hot air whilst traveling then turning on hot water once at next job.

They are destined be run continuously however you can turn them off and back on but not every time I would say once or twise a day maybe, it will take a few muinits to get the water hot it’s not as quick as a combi boiler , not sure what you mean about hot air blower ? Do you mean screen de mister ?

 

[Pjj]

Complete nightmare this I wish somebody local had the set up. It seems the further I go getting help the more I put myself of ?

Ware are you ? You are welcome to look at our setups if near Cornwall

 

[ched999uk]

I also put an 800 watt electric heater into the van which kicks on around 3 degrees and switches off around 6 degrees. That heater sits at the rear doors, so keeps the hose reels from freezing up.

That sounds a good idea. Do you use a specific heater with such fine control or did you fit a better thermostatic controller?

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Ware are you ? You are welcome to look at our setups if near Cornwall

Thank you mate im North East mate really do appreciate it though

 

[Deleted member 12462]

They are destined be run continuously however you can turn them off and back on but not every time I would say once or twise a day maybe, it will take a few muinits to get the water hot it’s not as quick as a combi boiler , not sure what you mean about hot air blower ? Do you mean screen de mister ?

The one I was looking at said it comes with a blower with a van to keep the back of the van warm when frost stat comes on.

So the best way to set it up is run it through the hose and back into the tank. Using my pump.

Please lock this thread ?

 

[spruce]

That sounds a good idea. Do you use a specific heater with such fine control or did you fit a better thermostatic controller?

Back in Johannesburg in 1991, I picked 3 wall heaters out of a skip on my way home from work. They were the old, coiled electric element wire. One didn't work, but the other 2 did. So I welded up 2 frames with small castor wheels, one for each of the children's bedrooms. They never did have a thermostat on them. They were very basic switch on at the wall heaters, so I fitted an illuminated on/off switch, so the children could see when they were on.

I packed them in with our stuff when we left South Africa for here in 1994. I then fitted a Honeywell thermostat controller that dials down to 0 degrees. I've used that every winter since I went to a van mount 16 years ago. I converted the other the same way for son's van. Never had a frozen van.

We didn't need them here in the house as we have central heating, so they have been put to good use.

 

[spruce]

The one I was looking at said it comes with a blower with a van to keep the back of the van warm when frost stat comes on.

So the best way to set it up is run it through the hose and back into the tank. Using my pump.

Please lock this thread ?

That's the way most set the heater up. All you need is a hot heater and warm water in the hose. I always had an old duvet over my tank in the winter. The pumps have always been mounted on the side of the tank, so they have been kept frost free from the small 'warmth' drawn from the water in the tank.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Back in Johannesburg in 1991, I picked 3 wall heaters out of a skip on my way home from work. They were the old, coiled electric element wire. One didn't work, but the other 2 did. So I welded up 2 frames with small castor wheels, one for each of the children's bedrooms. They never did have a thermostat on them. They were very basic switch on at the wall heaters, so I fitted an illuminated on/off switch, so the children could see when they were on.

I packed them in with our stuff when we left South Africa for here in 1994. I then fitted a Honeywell thermostat controller that dials down to 0 degrees. I've used that every winter since I went to a van mount 16 years ago. I converted the other the same way for son's van. Never had a frozen van.

We didn't need them here in the house as we have central heating, so they have been put to good use.

On my fish tank I've got a controller that has two dockets on it one for cooling one for heating. You could use that has a thermostat for any electric heaters put it all controlled via WiFi on the phone too..


I'm slightly gutted to be honest I was looking forward to setting this system up but o don't think I want to pump it through back to the tank I wanted it on demand. But thank you to all that have commented

 

[ched999uk]

Back in Johannesburg in 1991, I picked 3 wall heaters out of a skip on my way home from work. They were the old, coiled electric element wire. One didn't work, but the other 2 did. So I welded up 2 frames with small castor wheels, one for each of the children's bedrooms. They never did have a thermostat on them. They were very basic switch on at the wall heaters, so I fitted an illuminated on/off switch, so the children could see when they were on.

I packed them in with our stuff when we left South Africa for here in 1994. I then fitted a Honeywell thermostat controller that dials down to 0 degrees. I've used that every winter since I went to a van mount 16 years ago. I converted the other the same way for son's van. Never had a frozen van.

We didn't need them here in the house as we have central heating, so they have been put to good use.

I like that. Actually you have just remined me that I have the old Honeywell controller that was on our central heating system as we have just upgraded to a smart thermostat and smart TRV's (Wiser system and it's really great) . I kept the old one as I'm a bit of a hoarder and thought it might come in handy, so just need to see if I have a mains relay somewhere.
Cheers for the idea.

 

[ched999uk]

I'm slightly gutted to be honest I was looking forward to setting this system up but o don't think I want to pump it through back to the tank I wanted it on demand. But thank you to all that have commented

You might have your wires crossed a little. The diesel heaters take about 10 mins to get going and that's when they draw high current. After that they throttle down and will give you continuous hot water. The problem comes if after a job the water stops flowing and heat rises in the heat exchanger so the diesel heater shuts off completely. Then you arrive at the next job and start the flow again so the heater kicks back in. This multiple starting a day makes the heater coke up because they use excess diesel on startup. When they coke up it can damage the pin (starter heater coil), and I think the combustion chamber.
To combat stop start operation people connect their hose back to the tank when they have finished a job. That way the heater doesn't shut down and coke things up. The hot water flowing back to your tank will over the day warm the tank water up so your not actually wasting the diesel heating the water that goes back to the tank - well maybe just a little.

Good idea about fish tank controller, I will have a look, cheers.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

You might have your wires crossed a little. The diesel heaters take about 10 mins to get going and that's when they draw high current. After that they throttle down and will give you continuous hot water. The problem comes if after a job the water stops flowing and heat rises in the heat exchanger so the diesel heater shuts off completely. Then you arrive at the next job and start the flow again so the heater kicks back in. This multiple starting a day makes the heater coke up because they use excess diesel on startup. When they coke up it can damage the pin (starter heater coil), and I think the combustion chamber.
To combat stop start operation people connect their hose back to the tank when they have finished a job. That way the heater doesn't shut down and coke things up. The hot water flowing back to your tank will over the day warm the tank water up so your not actually wasting the diesel heating the water that goes back to the tank - well maybe just a little.

Good idea about fish tank controller, I will have a look, cheers.ank y

You might have your wires crossed a little. The diesel heaters take about 10 mins to get going and that's when they draw high current. After that they throttle down and will give you continuous hot water. The problem comes if after a job the water stops flowing and heat rises in the heat exchanger so the diesel heater shuts off completely. Then you arrive at the next job and start the flow again so the heater kicks back in. This multiple starting a day makes the heater coke up because they use excess diesel on startup. When they coke up it can damage the pin (starter heater coil), and I think the combustion chamber.
To combat stop start operation people connect their hose back to the tank when they have finished a job. That way the heater doesn't shut down and coke things up. The hot water flowing back to your tank will over the day warm the tank water up so your not actually wasting the diesel heating the water that goes back to the tank - well maybe just a little.

Good idea about fish tank controller, I will have a look, cheers.

Ah thank you so have it running but but the end of the hose of the reel into the the tank makes sense when people have mentioned that I will be honest I assumed they where just heating the full tank of water all at once. Thanks.

As for the fish tank heater controller I will post a link of the one I have below.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22345574...d=link&campid=5338933951&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Ah thank you so have it running but but the end of the hose of the reel into the the tank makes sense when people have mentioned that I will be honest I assumed they where just heating the full tank of water all at once. Thanks.

As for the fish tank heater controller I will post a link of the one I have below.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22345574...d=link&campid=5338933951&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

So if put a splitter in before my hose reel I can just shut it off going to the reel and have a seperate hose of the splitter going straight into the water tank. Obviously it would be down to me to manually switch them over when needed.