Facelift hot water system

[RyeCleanLiam]

So if put a splitter in before my hose reel I can just shut it off going to the reel and have a seperate hose of the splitter going straight into the water tank. Obviously it would be down to me to manually switch them over when needed.

This is how I've got mine set up. Plug my hose reel back into a hose into the tank, it then recirculates around the house reel and back into the tank this keeping the hose reel warm between jobs too. So once I've packed up after a job I just plug the hose reel into that tank hose inlet.

 

[spruce]

When the frostat on the Spring controller kicks on at 2 degrees C it will only activate the Webasto furnace for 10 minutes @marlowswindows , then it switches off. It doesn't remain on. It's configured so it just heats the internal water jack up and at the same time pass water through the hose reel and dumps it back into your tank. Obviously once the temperature drops to 2 degrees C it will activate again for another 10 minutes.

 

[spruce]

Here is a photo of how someone plumbs their hose reels into the tank using non-return rectus fittings.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

The plan is two run x2 batteries separately.

How often do you think I would have to charge a battery for just the diesel heater?

If it was every night could i get away with leave the battery connected and charging on a night whilst it may have the blower working? Trying to get my head around best way of doing things before installing

I charge mine every night after use.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

When the frostat on the Spring controller kicks on at 2 degrees C it will only activate the Webasto furnace for 10 minutes @marlowswindows , then it switches off. It doesn't remain on. It's configured so it just heats the internal water jack up and at the same time pass water through the hose reel and dumps it back into your tank. Obviously once the temperature drops to 2 degrees C it will activate again for another 10 minutes.

When the frostat on the Spring controller kicks on at 2 degrees C it will only activate the Webasto furnace for 10 minutes @marlowswindows , then it switches off. It doesn't remain on. It's configured so it just heats the internal water jack up and at the same time pass water through the hose reel and dumps it back into your tank. Obviously once the temperature drops to 2 degrees C it will activate again for another 10 minutes.

I was looking at a system that has a blower in to heat the back up.

I cannot understand why on wcw it is £500 more to not have the heated blower option.

If It was to go through the hose would the shurflo pump need to be connected and running.

Or would it just be better to have it just to blow hot air out instead of pushing hot water through the system and would it make a negative impact to heating the water part of the system having the blower

 

[Part Timer]

Just had this done so during winter we don't have to put oil filled radiator in the van. When the frost stat kicks in it turns the pumps on and starts to circulate the water through the reels and back into the tank and vents the warm air into the back of the van. Stays on until the air temp gauge hits 6 degrees
It won't let me upload the photo

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Just had this done so during winter we don't have to put oil filled radiator in the van. When the frost stat kicks in it turns the pumps on and starts to circulate the water through the reels and back into the tank and vents the warm air into the back of the van. Stays on until the air temp gauge hits 6 degrees
It won't let me upload the photo

I will pm you me telephone number mate if that's OK appreciate all help

 

[Pjj]

Just had this done so during winter we don't have to put oil filled radiator in the van. When the frost stat kicks in it turns the pumps on and starts to circulate the water through the reels and back into the tank and vents the warm air into the back of the van. Stays on until the air temp gauge hits 6 degrees
It won't let me upload the photo

The Grippatank one senses when the water in the tank reaches 1 or 2 degrees then it fires up the pumps and boiler on a low speed pumping rate to circulate water round the reels runs fir about 19-15 muinits then shuts down , it will keep doing this if tank temperature drops , we generally don’t get that many very cold nights to activate it and if we have some hot water in the tank from the days work and then fill the tank the temp is high enough to prevent it freezing . L

 

[Part Timer]

The Grippatank one senses when the water in the tank reaches 1 or 2 degrees then it fires up the pumps and boiler on a low speed pumping rate to circulate water round the reels runs fir about 19-15 muinits then shuts down , it will keep doing this if tank temperature drops , we generally don’t get that many very cold nights to activate it and if we have some hot water in the tank from the days work and then fill the tank the temp is high enough to prevent it freezing . L

Pure Freedoms works on the frost stat outside air temperature

 

[kevinc250]

@marlowswindows are you a sole user and what size tank and make do you have?, thats the most basic questions as to which hot water method would suit you better

 

[Deleted member 12462]

@marlowswindows are you a sole user and what size tank and make do you have?, thats the most basic questions as to which hot water method would suit you better

450 litre tank. I'm where I need to be now thanks to everybody couldn't get my head around how you go around reciulating to tank.

 

[kevinc250]

450 litre tank. I'm where I need to be now thanks to everybody couldn't get my head around how you go around reciulating to tank.

aah, at 450l you should be looking at a heater that recurlates rather than being on demand, that can be done for less than a £1000,
most people get the re circulating idea so very wrong even the makers do and i've yet to see one that does it properly

 

[ched999uk]

aah, at 450l you should be looking at a heater that recurlates rather than being on demand, that can be done for less than a £1000,
most people get the re circulating idea so very wrong even the makers do and i've yet to see one that does it properly

Tell me more, less than £1K. I'm interested.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Many of these systems use a V16 HW ( Hot water?frost stat) controller

The frost protect mode as mentioned by Spruce helps prevent overnight freezing. The controller has a variable temp trigger point between 0 - 5C we suggest setting to 2C, If temp drops to the trigger point the controller switches the pump to create circulation through the reel and tank and switches the Diesel heater. The controller also has a feature where the recirculation flow rate can be set. This means the V16 HW can also be used with a Gas heater as the flow across the burner starts the heater. In the facelift and Purefredom systems they can also be used to switch a Fan to circulate heat around the vehicle. Frost protection runs for a few minutes. The idea being that the water temperature is kept above freezing point using the minimum amount of energy possible. Water has good thermal mass in that it holds temperature for a while. It does also make it slow to change in temperature so once the water is around the 2C or above point it will retain that for a period of time . How long will vary based on how cold the ambient temps are

 

[kevinc250]

not a problem @ched999uk i'll attach a couple of images if i can,its something that has been done for years its just when it gets mentioned on forums or social media it seems to stir up a hornets nest for some reason, there again, when you've spent thousands on something that could be done for a lot less i can understand some getting disgruntled.
anyway the idea is that you use the heater in a loop consisting of a pump usually 900l per hour, the water going through the heater gets heated and is then passed back to your tank,its a very simple way to heat the water, note you shouldn't let the tank water get to 50c or above as the tank will distort and become weak this applies to any which way you decide to heat the water immersion etc.
the above way is better suited for those with tanks around 450l or less as its more efficient on fuel over the on demand way both ways are not perfect and some prefer the on demand to the recirculating method but, both ways work, i ran mine this way for a few years until i was made an offer i couldn't refuse for a one man streamline that wouldn't work-it had been wired by a monkey and it was a very easy fix although it needed some tweaks to get the best out of it.
if you went the recirculating route it would mean that you have to drill the tank for an extra outlet and inlet although the inlet can be done through the tank lid.
have a look on you tube at andover gutter cleaning,he did this some six years ago although some things he did i would not do he is very much on the mark and you can see the idea.
what he has there is available on ebay minus the tank a fully refurbished webasto for £480 i think it includes all the hoses and exhaust etc with free postage.
if you had an eberspacher to hand then you have to add a 900lpm pump inline diagram below and solder the wires together as such the eberspacher is pretty much plug and play usually found on mercedes vans
attached also is the front of a stystem i built back in 2019 i think using a chinese heater,
hope this helps a bit to clarify that its not that scary to go hot and it shouldn't cost the earth.
regards kevin

 

[ched999uk]

not a problem @ched999uk i'll attach a couple of images if i can,its something that has been done for years its just when it gets mentioned on forums or social media it seems to stir up a hornets nest for some reason, there again, when you've spent thousands on something that could be done for a lot less i can understand some getting disgruntled.
anyway the idea is that you use the heater in a loop consisting of a pump usually 900l per hour, the water going through the heater gets heated and is then passed back to your tank,its a very simple way to heat the water, note you shouldn't let the tank water get to 50c or above as the tank will distort and become weak this applies to any which way you decide to heat the water immersion etc.
the above way is better suited for those with tanks around 450l or less as its more efficient on fuel over the on demand way both ways are not perfect and some prefer the on demand to the recirculating method but, both ways work, i ran mine this way for a few years until i was made an offer i couldn't refuse for a one man streamline that wouldn't work-it had been wired by a monkey and it was a very easy fix although it needed some tweaks to get the best out of it.
if you went the recirculating route it would mean that you have to drill the tank for an extra outlet and inlet although the inlet can be done through the tank lid.
have a look on you tube at andover gutter cleaning,he did this some six years ago although some things he did i would not do he is very much on the mark and you can see the idea.
what he has there is available on ebay minus the tank a fully refurbished webasto for £480 i think it includes all the hoses and exhaust etc with free postage.
if you had an eberspacher to hand then you have to add a 900lpm pump inline diagram below and solder the wires together as such the eberspacher is pretty much plug and play usually found on mercedes vans
attached also is the front of a stystem i built back in 2019 i think using a chinese heater,
hope this helps a bit to clarify that its not that scary to go hot and it shouldn't cost the earth.
regards kevin

Thanks very much for that. I have looked at the diesel heaters before. I found that they where not that easy to get started up without 3rd party controllers which put me off a bit. Maybe things have moved on or I just didn't look hard enough, the Eberspacher sounds like a simpler system. I was probably over complicating it by thininking that I had to use a heat exchanger and thermostatic valves etc. I quite like the idea of heating the whole tank as then you don't need to worry about the heater cycling during the day and coking up.

I think I will have more of an investigation especially as I think I have more than enough space under my bonnet to have the heater so no extra holes for the exhaust.
I could even have a second loop to a heater matrix and warm the cab up in the morning I only have a 400lts tank so this should be ideal. plus it already has a Tee on the tank outlet that couple be perfect to attach the pump to, then through the heater then back into the tank via the filler.

I think I will start my research now but maybe plan to install it in next summer so it's ready for next winter.

Cheers for the info. If I get off my backside to do this I will post some picys on how I get on. Thanks again for the info.

 

[spruce]

not a problem @ched999uk i'll attach a couple of images if i can,its something that has been done for years its just when it gets mentioned on forums or social media it seems to stir up a hornets nest for some reason, there again, when you've spent thousands on something that could be done for a lot less i can understand some getting disgruntled.
anyway the idea is that you use the heater in a loop consisting of a pump usually 900l per hour, the water going through the heater gets heated and is then passed back to your tank,its a very simple way to heat the water, note you shouldn't let the tank water get to 50c or above as the tank will distort and become weak this applies to any which way you decide to heat the water immersion etc.
the above way is better suited for those with tanks around 450l or less as its more efficient on fuel over the on demand way both ways are not perfect and some prefer the on demand to the recirculating method but, both ways work, i ran mine this way for a few years until i was made an offer i couldn't refuse for a one man streamline that wouldn't work-it had been wired by a monkey and it was a very easy fix although it needed some tweaks to get the best out of it.
if you went the recirculating route it would mean that you have to drill the tank for an extra outlet and inlet although the inlet can be done through the tank lid.
have a look on you tube at andover gutter cleaning,he did this some six years ago although some things he did i would not do he is very much on the mark and you can see the idea.
what he has there is available on ebay minus the tank a fully refurbished webasto for £480 i think it includes all the hoses and exhaust etc with free postage.
if you had an eberspacher to hand then you have to add a 900lpm pump inline diagram below and solder the wires together as such the eberspacher is pretty much plug and play usually found on mercedes vans
attached also is the front of a stystem i built back in 2019 i think using a chinese heater,
hope this helps a bit to clarify that its not that scary to go hot and it shouldn't cost the earth.
regards kevin

Andover Gutter Cleaning used a Thermo Top C diesel heater. There are still some around, but are vehicle specific. The same applies for Webasto Thermo Top V. If you are looking at something like this, then it must have a universal PC board.
With regard to Thermo Top C, heaters fitted to Rover 75's, some Citroens, narrow boats and some motor homes could be used. The first one I purchased was from a BMW and didn't work.
I ended up buying a refurbished heater from a narrow boat, but by the time I added the harness, full pump, controller, etc., it cost more than a refurbished unit supplied as a complete kit.

 

[JEM]

Thanks very much for that. I have looked at the diesel heaters before. I found that they where not that easy to get started up without 3rd party controllers which put me off a bit. Maybe things have moved on or I just didn't look hard enough, the Eberspacher sounds like a simpler system. I was probably over complicating it by thininking that I had to use a heat exchanger and thermostatic valves etc. I quite like the idea of heating the whole tank as then you don't need to worry about the heater cycling during the day and coking up.

I think I will have more of an investigation especially as I think I have more than enough space under my bonnet to have the heater so no extra holes for the exhaust.
I could even have a second loop to a heater matrix and warm the cab up in the morning I only have a 400lts tank so this should be ideal. plus it already has a Tee on the tank outlet that couple be perfect to attach the pump to, then through the heater then back into the tank via the filler.

I think I will start my research now but maybe plan to install it in next summer so it's ready for next winter.

Cheers for the info. If I get off my backside to do this I will post some picys on how I get on. Thanks again for the info.

Like you Ched it's something i will look into for next winter, I've been looking at these Chinese diesel air heaters for the garage, I noticed they also do a water version also so might be worth looking into, I have looked at the Webasto Top C that was used by Andover gutter cleaning. Are there issues with the boards on them? as seen a couple of youtube videos that they can get corrupt or something
Then a video on the Chinese version came up as a recommended
I did read that the patent on the Webasto run out which is why all these Chinese diesel heaters are hitting the market, Obviously, they won't be up to the same build quality!

Here's a video I've seen

 

[ched999uk]

Like you Ched it's something i will look into for next winter, I've been looking at these Chinese diesel air heaters for the garage, I noticed they also do a water version also so might be worth looking into, I have looked at the Webasto Top C that was used by Andover gutter cleaning. Are there issues with the boards on them? as seen a couple of youtube videos that they can get corrupt or something
Then a video on the Chinese version came up as a recommended
I did read that the patent on the Webasto run out which is why all these Chinese diesel heaters are hitting the market, Obviously, they won't be up to the same build quality!

Here's a video I've seen

I have watched lots of David McLuckie videos. very interesting stuff. If I remember correctly China doesn't have or recognise patents, so they will happily copy anything.
The Chinese heaters do seem to be generally OK - lots in motorhome conversions. For the price they are it's almost cheaper to buy one than have a ThermoTop serviced!
It's one of the things that would be nice to have but I haven't got much space in the van and I don't really want a bigger van as they would be more difficult to park and get on my driveway.
As diesel heaters in general are not that efficient Kw of diesel vs Kw of heat output it's probably cheaper to just use an immersion heater. There is a device called a Tesla External Immersion Heater which I have been thinking about. Basically it is an immersion heater element in a tube. You would need to run your brush flow pump through it then back to the tank. The main advantage is not having to cut a big hole in the tank! There are some extra issues though, first off I haven't found a 2Kw version, 2nd you would need a pressure switch to ensure water was being pumped round, you would also need an over temp sensor as a safety cut out but it could be done. On the plus side you could easily run it through your reel hose to keep that nice and toasty.

 

[Pjj]

Like you Ched it's something i will look into for next winter, I've been looking at these Chinese diesel air heaters for the garage, I noticed they also do a water version also so might be worth looking into, I have looked at the Webasto Top C that was used by Andover gutter cleaning. Are there issues with the boards on them? as seen a couple of youtube videos that they can get corrupt or something
Then a video on the Chinese version came up as a recommended
I did read that the patent on the Webasto run out which is why all these Chinese diesel heaters are hitting the market, Obviously, they won't be up to the same build quality!

Here's a video I've seen

The thermo pro 90 is the best Wabasto heater for our application that’s what I have in my vans. Be careful with the Chinese water and air heaters we have been out to several camper van fires caused by using theses things the wiring is very poor and thin and they aren’t kite marked so it they do burn out a vehicle you might have insurance issues .

 

[JEM]

I have watched lots of David McLuckie videos. very interesting stuff. If I remember correctly China doesn't have or recognise patents, so they will happily copy anything.
The Chinese heaters do seem to be generally OK - lots in motorhome conversions. For the price they are it's almost cheaper to buy one than have a ThermoTop serviced!
It's one of the things that would be nice to have but I haven't got much space in the van and I don't really want a bigger van as they would be more difficult to park and get on my driveway.
As diesel heaters in general are not that efficient Kw of diesel vs Kw of heat output it's probably cheaper to just use an immersion heater. There is a device called a Tesla External Immersion Heater which I have been thinking about. Basically it is an immersion heater element in a tube. You would need to run your brush flow pump through it then back to the tank. The main advantage is not having to cut a big hole in the tank! There are some extra issues though, first off I haven't found a 2Kw version, 2nd you would need a pressure switch to ensure water was being pumped round, you would also need an over temp sensor as a safety cut out but it could be done. On the plus side you could easily run it through your reel hose to keep that nice and toasty.

Didn't squeaky clean dave have something very similar on his channel that you just drop into the tank?
It would work like you say you would need a 2K version and need a way of circulating the water using the pump and without drilling holes in the tank would be the adavantage