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Forum impartiality is important

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Richard

Active member
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927
For those who aren’t aware who I am I make the Aerial brushes under the Tecbuk name.

I have just been on the ACS Forum, noticed a thread about ‘Tecbuk Brushes’ so had a look, and was shocked to see most of the replies were by forum moderators and were rude, biased, untrue and insulting

I was under the impression that forum moderators were there to regulate posts and not offer biased opinions, regarding the ACS forum this is clearly not the case, although I do credit the intelligence of most of its members.

I welcome all constructive criticism as this goes towards product development; biased opinionated individuals with little knowledge of the subject never help anyone.

My response to that thread is below; it did respond in haste –

“ASC Cleaning Forum – impartial advice from cleaning professionals” (at its best)

Your Insults aside, you are en***led to your own opinion, just as much as I am.

If you think a brush such as Gardiner’s extreme with approximately 9,600 monofilaments cleans faster then the Aerial brush with approximately 42,500 monofilaments that is your opinion.

The subject of brushes is vast and with such biased views it doesn’t warrant going into this.

Still, sincerely best regards and apologies for the original poster about the brushes assuming your comments are genuine - I am behind with brush orders and have been since the start of the year, I can assure you are not the only one who is a little put out by this.

Richard Sorrell

(By the way the extreme monofilament is about 50% bigger diameter, the equivalent of 14,400 filaments than the Red Aerial brush, this would give it only a third of the cleaning ability and not over 4 times, and in test it does take 3 brush strokes to achieve the same result as one Aerial brush stroke)

 

Posh

Well-known member
Messages
5,707
Location
Cambridgeshire
A bit confusing this. I had to read it twice and thought what's it got to do with us unless you just wanted to get it off your chest.

 

Richard

Active member
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927
I put the thread up because this forum - Gav’s window cleaning forums is to date a true impartial forum, and yes I was also getting it off my chest.

I think window cleaners who successfully operate a business are not stupid, and shouldn’t be treated that why by forum moderators, for example I sell direct to window cleaners who are local to me, I meet them talk to many of whom have a turnover in excess of £60,000 per year.

I am a window cleaner and now a supplier as well, because I don’t have an Ecommerce shop yet, I also take telephone calls daily from window cleaners; many of whom vent the frustration of not being able to get a balanced view about equipment from some forums, this disservice by the forum itself is expressed angrily by those who call me.

It would be much better to hear forum members posting their opinions constructively on equipment both positives and negative. As a manufacturer I need both types of feedback.

Richard

 

James

Active member
Messages
845
I see your point Richard, quite frustrating. Unfortunately everyone has their own opinions and it's easy to sit behind a computer chair and voice them over a forum. If only it was the same in real life /emoticons/tongue.png

 

Richard

Active member
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927
I know what you mean, fortunately other forms of ‘real life’ communication are a lot more cordial, I have spoken to many people who use the forums and I can say all have been down to earth and reasonable getting their point across.

We all in the same boat trying to run a business, and forums can be a good place to get things off your chest.

Richard

 

Gavin

Staff member
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See your point and have experienced other forums the are not impartial and or endorse one product and favour that. My mission is to keep this forum friendly, impartial and constructive. Thanks to you lovely members we are off to a great start!

Anyone that tries to challenge this will face the rath of the warn and ban button LOL /emoticons/tongue.png

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Richard

Active member
Messages
927
Good to hear that Gav, you should encourage as many other supplier and manufacturers to post on the forum for the benefit of the members and it will give the forum far more credibility than other forums.

I will give you good example; Ionic Systems make some very nice but expensive equipment - for some people who may be only just starting out. I know of a local window cleaner to me who purchased the Ionic heated wfp system, the only reason being it was a better alternative to giving the money to the tax man.

People may think they are overpriced, but circumstances can also dictate decision making.

Richard

 

Gavin

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Ionics are one of the suppliers that often create biased opinions on forums. They insist on them being the only suppliers advertising on a forum. I encourage discussion on any suppliers but to contact them directly would likely result in the above. /emoticons/wink.png

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Posh

Well-known member
Messages
5,707
Location
Cambridgeshire
All I can say is you only need to look through this forum to see how friendly and helpful people are to each other. No one slags anybody off and like paul rods said it is truly a great forum with great people.

 

Njones

Active member
Messages
387
Hi all,.. I just had a PM on another forum telling me about this post here, so I thought i'd take the time to reply. First of all, congrats to Gav,... I didn't know about this place before, but it looks great & is definitely going in my bookmarks! /emoticons/wink.png

For anyone who doesn't know me already, i'm Nathanael Jones. I'm a sole trader window cleaner based in Fermoy, County Cork, Southern Ireland, and my business is called Avondhu Cleaning Services (link removed by admin)

I'm also the owner/admin of ACS forums, and current Admin of the Master Guild of Window Cleaners (link removed by admin)

I've been a window cleaner for a while now & heavily involved in the forums for the last 5 years,.. and I'm proud of my forums friendly atmosphere and unbiased opinions, so I hate to see a post like this.

@ Richard,.. First of all, for anyone who doubts the impartiality of ACS forums, here is the thread Richard is referring to, read & decide fr yourself: link removed by admin

(Apologies to Gav for linking to another forum, I know its bad form & I won't make a habit of it, but circumstances require it this time)

I've re-read it & don't see anything other than impartial advice & personal opinion mixed with same guys having a bit of a laugh at your sales pitch. The one review we got from someone who actually used your brushes wasn't that positive,.. and the comments regarding your overly enthusiastic sales pitch and claims of excellence for your product are quite justified you have to admit! No offence was intended, of that I am sure,.. but still, on behalf of ACS I would like to apologise for any upset that resulted from this thread.

I do however ask that in future if you have a problem like this, please contact me directly either by e-mail: info@avondhucleaning.com by PM on the offending forum or via the phone numbers on my website. This would always be preferable to potentially libellous comments on other forums.

@Badbusdriver:

The Guild is an association for window cleaners, run by window cleaners which was started 4 years back by ppl who weren't too impressed with the FED & wanted an alternative. We see it as a way to promote professionalism in the industry, promote health & safety, and give members some marketing tools. Its not a big organisation like the FED (yet) and only has about 200 members - but it is steadily growing, and with membership only £20 per year you can't really go wrong!

For those who aren’t aware who I am I make the Aerial brushes under the Tecbuk name.

I have just been on the ACS Forum, noticed a thread about ‘Tecbuk Brushes’ so had a look, and was shocked to see most of the replies were by forum moderators and were rude, biased, untrue and insulting

I was under the impression that forum moderators were there to regulate posts and not offer biased opinions, regarding the ACS forum this is clearly not the case, although I do credit the intelligence of most of its members.

I welcome all constructive criticism as this goes towards product development; biased opinionated individuals with little knowledge of the subject never help anyone.

My response to that thread is below; it did respond in haste –

“ASC Cleaning Forum – impartial advice from cleaning professionals” (at its best)

Your Insults aside, you are en***led to your own opinion, just as much as I am.

If you think a brush such as Gardiner’s extreme with approximately 9,600 monofilaments cleans faster then the Aerial brush with approximately 42,500 monofilaments that is your opinion.

The subject of brushes is vast and with such biased views it doesn’t warrant going into this.

Still, sincerely best regards and apologies for the original poster about the brushes assuming your comments are genuine - I am behind with brush orders and have been since the start of the year, I can assure you are not the only one who is a little put out by this.

Richard Sorrell

(By the way the extreme monofilament is about 50% bigger diameter, the equivalent of 14,400 filaments than the Red Aerial brush, this would give it only a third of the cleaning ability and not over 4 times, and in test it does take 3 brush strokes to achieve the same result as one Aerial brush stroke)
 

Gavin

Staff member
Admin
Messages
3,820
Location
Cornwall
Hi and welcome, now normally i don't remove links but i have in your posts as it is your first post and you have filled it with three links.

I don't have a problem with you posting a link but not when you fill your first post with them or just use it to advertise all your sites.

Gavin

 

Ssierragls

Member
Messages
106
Hi

I'm new to this forum after see the link to this topic on the ACS forum.

I would just like to say that on any forum I have been on, clean it up, window tools, ACS forum and thecleaningforums. On all these forums, there has only been impartial reviews of Richards aerial brush, there is no conspiracy, and just honest reviews. I have an aerial brush, but after using it for a while, I decided that I prefer to use a brush from a different supplier. I have found Richards statements about the brush to be over exaggerated, and whenever there are negative comments about the brush, Richard always seems to take it personally and this reflected in his replys, and can't take and criticism of his products.

If you want to read honest reviews of the aerial brush join one of the other forums and do a search for aerial brush and see for yourselves.

 

Njones

Active member
Messages
387
My apologies Gav,.. I thought it was important to show who I was and exactly what I was saying, hence 3 links:

One link to my personal business website, showing I'm a cleaner like you, not a supplier/manufacturer.

One link to the specific thread Richard mentioned as being "rude, biased, untrue and insulting" so that members could make up their own mind. Please note that I have also included a link on my forum to this thread, to even things out as it were.

The 3rd link was to the Guild website, which organisation had also been referenced, but it seems the poster may have had a false impression of what the guild is all about.

Personally I can say with certainty, if you had posted the same on my form, the links would still be there.

Hi and welcome, now normally i don't remove links but i have in your posts as it is your first post and you have filled it with three links.

I don't have a problem with you posting a link but not when you fill your first post with them or just use it to advertise all your sites.

Gavin
 

Njones

Active member
Messages
387
I believe it was Richard who was "naming and shaming" another forum,.. not the other way round. :dodgy:

I think you should take it up with Richard in private, I don't think forums are the place to be naming and Shaming companys or other forums keep them private thats my opinion.
 

Gavin

Staff member
Admin
Messages
3,820
Location
Cornwall
Appreciated, but as Paul says I think it would be more appropriate to discuss privately. In normal circumstances your links would also be their but in the last week I have had to have discussions with brodex over a user now banned slating them on our forums. I have no problem with you posting at all but it seems in the last week people are coming here to slate others and sadly all it does is have a negative impact on us. /emoticons/biggrin.png

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Njones

Active member
Messages
387
Completely understand, and i wish Richard had decided to discuss it privately. Now that its here & out in the open I just felt compelled to set the record straight!

I hope that you and your members no longer think badly of ACS because of Richards rant.

 

Gavin

Staff member
Admin
Messages
3,820
Location
Cornwall
Very well said Paul. I don't think badly of any other forum and can come to my own conclusion regardless of what others my say.

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Richard

Active member
Messages
927
Nathanael I posted with reasonable justification - at the time I read the thread.

To claim your forum has impartiality and then allow forum moderators to post as they did, may only have been an oversight, if that is the case I assume you have corrected the thread, and I will revaluate my view that your forum is biased.

Best regards

Richard Sorrell

 
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