Future of the forum

[Gavin]

As a question, is it just having the Ads that gains revenue, or is it more income if we actually click the Ads?

DO NOT CLICK ON ADS! I am not allowed to be shown to manipulate the ads at all or our ad account we be banned with no way of getting it back. 

Some ads are paid per 1000 views others only when clicked BUT Gav MUST NOT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CLICK ADS as it's against Google's T&C. Google are very clever and have lots of data so please don't just click ads to help Gav as it could backfire big time!!!

If an ad interests you then click it and read a page or 2 from the site by all means.

Yep as above not a good idea at all! I could end up losing all revenue from ads. 

So @Gavin Ime a total techno dinosaur and haven’t got a clue about any of this to be honest but  how do other forums pay their way ??  Would google adds on hear solve the problems ? For those that pay a membership they don’t see the adds anyway do they ? So if ones don’t want to see them then they can avoid them by subscribing. Can more trade suppliers to the window cleaning industry be encouraged to advertise on hear as this surely would help their businesses with more sales several are members on hear already .  

Ads are the main form of income on forums like ours the suscribing members are not that many bt hopefuly with a few changes they might be. 

I have now made the members area for paid members only as well as clasifieds, new users registering now get asked to choose a membership including a free ad supported option. I will make a couple of other adjustements here and there and see what happens. 

 

[RWCleaning]

Hmm sorry to hear about this dilemma. 
I went for the paid membership as I found the google ads annoying. But sadly i think a lot will think “these ads on this forum is annoying I’ll go elsewhere” 

How many people in total use the forum regularly? I can imagine a lot are signed up, but ones actually visit & post at least once a week, I feel like it’s the same 25 people most days? (We all know who we are ?) 

But say it’s 100 people a week who sign in & post at least once a week, does a couple of quid a month from them cover it ok? 

 

[Gavin]

It fluctuates but like you say most regular members are a small number of our total membership. 

 

[Chris34]

I preferred the old forum and have never liked this one, if the old way worked then I'd go back to that.  No harm in going back to something that worked.  Just because everyone says something is better, well the facts don't lie, if the old forum had better results then go back to that one.

Imo a paid forum would not work.  You need diversity in people, diversity in experience, a paid membership would just be the same posters with a much smaller amount of new posters.  As much as the experienced members hate the same old questions again and again well that's what attracts people in the first place and makes the forum work.

I'd bet that most members don't click on ads as they already know who the suppliers are and just go straight to the suppliers website.  So it's the newcomers that are more likely to click on the ads... even if they don't post they might click on the ad, so you need both the posters and the readers to make the forum work.

 

[Iron Giant]

I have now made the members area for paid members only

I get in for free woo hoo   :dancingparty:

It will be a see how it goes moving forward from today, it is only really small number of us that actively participate and help others there is massive amount that no doubt just come and gleam all the info, but the same could be said for many more forums and social media, the difference is on here the help members happily give up to anyone who comes on here even if they only pop up once in a blue moon is golden. 

 

[Tuffers]

It's all Putin's fault. 
 

Logging out again. Bye.

 

[Gavin]

I preferred the old forum and have never liked this one, if the old way worked then I'd go back to that. No harm in going back to something that worked. Just because everyone says something is better, well the facts don't lie, if the old forum had better results then go back to that one.

Imo a paid forum would not work. You need diversity in people, diversity in experience, a paid membership would just be the same posters with a much smaller amount of new posters. As much as the experienced members hate the same old questions again and again well that's what attracts people in the first place and makes the forum work.

I'd bet that most members don't click on ads as they already know who the suppliers are and just go straight to the suppliers website. So it's the newcomers that are more likely to click on the ads... even if they don't post they might click on the ad, so you need both the posters and the readers to make the forum work.

Many did prefer the old forum software but then many like this one as well. I think moving forward i will likely move back to the old software for price more than anything but doing that in itself will cause issue and things will be a bit messed up like reputation scores etc. There will be discuption to subscriptions as well so they would need to all be setup again. In short its a right faf!

For now i am going to see how we go here but the other software is an option for sure. For reference here is a copy of our forum on the other software (no styling etc has been applied so pretty ugly currently) so you get get a reall look at its functionality. You shold be able to login but not sure if you will be able to post or see any posts as i havent gone throughbthe permissions Window Cleaning Forums | UK's #1 Window Cleaners Forum

 

[Davy G]

I was a non-paying member for a long time before I actually got round to becoming a £6 a month Guardian. It's such a small amount to pay that I'm embarrassed it took me so long. I submit the cost to my tax returns.

I feel very strongly that this forum should be treasured and protected. If most of us can contribute it will make a big difference.

I wonder if this discussion should also be posted on the Chit Chat section as I think a lot of people might not see it on the Forum News and Announcements section. Most people are looking for information and conversation, not forum news and announcements. I only came across it by accident as I rarely look at this section. My usual browsing is : Chit chat, Members section and Water Fed Pole.

I sincerely hope between us all we can protect and preserve the forum and lighten the load for Gavin.

 

[kevinc250]

Hmm sorry to hear about this dilemma. 
I went for the paid membership as I found the google ads annoying. But sadly i think a lot will think “these ads on this forum is annoying I’ll go elsewhere” 

How many people in total use the forum regularly? I can imagine a lot are signed up, but ones actually visit & post at least once a week, I feel like it’s the same 25 people most days? (We all know who we are ?) 

But say it’s 100 people a week who sign in & post at least once a week, does a couple of quid a month from them cover it ok? 

its a difficult one, if you paid a subscription then you would feel the need for value for money if you don't get that then you may quite well leave the forum or just not re-visit it again, the members on here may well run into the three thousand mark but, like you say its only the 25 or so people who comment, this is normal for forums that have been around for a while,  i wonder how ciu seems to keep going ok its not the best forum at all due to some members on the window cleaning part but the other sections are very informative and active.

@gavlocking some of the sections for unpaid users wouldn't bother me as it would be full of "what do you do on rainy days" or six or eight weeks?,

classifieds, @Damowill never sell that reel now so he'll be well peeved and probably offer it on facebook now which he could well sell very quickly.

for me, for my twopence worth its has always been a niggling point whereas i could subscribe but if i didn't i could still view the forum for free albeit not comment or ask a question but a quick search would sort that out now there is no members section for me and i can't buy damos reel do i feel any better or worser off? well no if i'm honest. i don't really want to drive down to bedfordshire for a reel and i'm ok with either six or eight weekly and rainy days are fine for me.

gav, you do rash things on the spur of the moment, listen to what people have to say, closing the members section has no effect whatsoever as does the classified section in fact it probably hinders things .

for me i would listen to @Part Timerhis suggestions made a whole lot of sense to me, if its £200 per month you need to clear to be back in the black then listen to members comments and not do rash things on the spur of the moment, chat with part timer thats what i would do to start with and maybe set up a working group to run through things and iron out any niggles and decided a route forward.

 

[Gavin]

Fair points and the forum restriction decision was made rather rashly. My thinking was as you said paying members want more for what they pay. Members used to complain all the time about people coming here posting there items for sale and never coming back again or contributing to the forum so I figured if that was a premium member feature that would be better. 

The members section I figured was members only so why not have it paid members only (another benefit) but of course current members would see this as a disadvantage or removal of privileges. The reality is I can't please everyone new members and current and still make the forum work and earn. 

I could simply throw all the ads back that I had previously but it was a mess and even I was struggling with it hence why I am trying alternative ways. 

 

[Damo]

@kevinc250LOL - I don't really use Facebook that much, I left the main pages years ago because I could see how it was going!

@GavinCan we have some actual costs of running the forum? It's hard to actually understand what needs doing or what help to offer if we don't know the true costs. Are we talking a £100/£1000/£2000 a month? 

I don't really need the forum BUT I would hate to see it close down or go offline as I did need it once upon a time.

I've got various ideas or suggestions to help but if you need a million a year to run it, then it's a lost cause. 

 

[Gavin]

@kevinc250LOL - I don't really use Facebook that much, I left the main pages years ago because I could see how it was going!

@GavinCan we have some actual costs of running the forum? It's hard to actually understand what needs doing or what help to offer if we don't know the true costs. Are we talking a £100/£1000/£2000 a month? 

I don't really need the forum BUT I would hate to see it close down or go offline as I did need it once upon a time.

I've got various ideas or suggestions to help but if you need a million a year to run it, then it's a lost cause. 

Honestly even if we could just get that lost £200 a month back that would be helpful. I just don't want to have to check ads at everything but it's possible that's the only real solution. 

 

[Chris34]

Many did prefer the old forum software but then many like this one as well. I think moving forward i will likely move back to the old software for price more than anything but doing that in itself will cause issue and things will be a bit messed up like reputation scores etc. There will be discuption to subscriptions as well so they would need to all be setup again. In short its a right faf! 

For now i am going to see how we go here but the other software is an option for sure. For reference here is a copy of our forum on the other software (no styling etc has been applied so pretty ugly currently) so you get get a reall look at its functionality. You shold be able to login but not sure if you will be able to post or see any posts as i havent gone throughbthe permissions https://beta.windowcleaningforums.co.uk/index.php

That old look is way better, everythings just in one place no scrolling.  But that's just my opinion.  I think the only sensible thing to do is not what the members actually want but what the figures say work.  If the old forum means that you're not making a loss then that's what you should go back to.

Also I think you should try and do banner advertising and charge a set monthly fee rather than click through adverts.  It keeps it simple that way and guarantees an income.

Just thinking outside the box but on sign up you could tell new members that as part of their sign up their email address will be passed to known good suppliers and they might receive marketing emails from them.  You can charge the suppliers for 'x' amount of email addresses.  It's the new members that are most likely newbies that are looking to buy equipment, so email marketing to these new members could be very valuable to window cleaning equipment suppliers.

 

[kevinc250]

Honestly even if we could just get that lost £200 a month back that would be helpful. I just don't want to have to check ads at everything but it's possible that's the only real solution. 

there you go gav two members for the working group 

 

[Pjj]

That old look is way better, everythings just in one place no scrolling.  But that's just my opinion.  I think the only sensible thing to do is not what the members actually want but what the figures say work.  If the old forum means that you're not making a loss then that's what you should go back to.

Also I think you should try and do banner advertising and charge a set monthly fee rather than click through adverts.  It keeps it simple that way and guarantees an income.

Just thinking outside the box but on sign up you could tell new members that as part of their sign up their email address will be passed to known good suppliers and they might receive marketing emails from them.  You can charge the suppliers for 'x' amount of email addresses.  It's the new members that are most likely newbies that are looking to buy equipment, so email marketing to these new members could be very valuable to window cleaning equipment suppliers.

Surely with GDPR you cannot pass on members email ??

 

[ched999uk]

Surely with GDPR you cannot lass on members email ??

Not without consent!

 

[Gavin]

Surely with GDPR you cannot lass on members email ??

If you have explicit permission from the member you could but its not something I really want to get into as is a bit of a minefield. 

 

[kevinc250]

Honestly even if we could just get that lost £200 a month back that would be helpful. I just don't want to have to check ads at everything but it's possible that's the only real solution. 

gav, you are focusing on one thing, i do understand the pressure you are under with your son and thats why i suggested a working group so it took some pressure and worry off you, the guys who use the forum are more tuned in than you think and come from different backgrounds and could well help with moving things forward, don't shoulder all this on yourself, ask for help and accept the offer of help should it be offered.

 

[Part Timer]

Personally think cut costs and go back to however many Ads you need to survive / prosper. 

 

[Gavin]

gav, you are focusing on one thing, i do understand the pressure you are under with your son and thats why i suggested a working group so it took some pressure and worry off you, the guys who use the forum are more tuned in than you think and come from different backgrounds and could well help with moving things forward, don't shoulder all this on yourself, ask for help and accept the offer of help should it be offered.

Thanks. I'm not just focusing on money. I also want the forum to be as active and busy as it used to be. That was when the ads were very minimal. Honestly I hate ads on forums it just ruins the flow of everything so if I had my way I would have no ads on the forum apart from sponsor ads but sadly it's not enough. I don't really need to make a profit from the forum I just need it to make enough to pay for itself. I will listed and see where we go. 

First and foremost I think moving to another forum software is what's needed and then we can look at everything else once moved as that will take some time and adjusting and tweaking. I will setup a focus group thread in the members only area which I will reinstate. So anyone who wants to contribute to ideas and moving forward can do. 

 

[JohnDoeWindows]

Despite how much ? is said about them on here, perhaps it's worth reaching out to some of the YouTube creators, I've spoken to a few of them and I think they would definitely push a community like this if they believed it was helping fellow windies. 

I found this forum from a Green Pro video, for example. They all speak to the target audience of this forum, so to encourage them to get involved here would probably work wonders.