Gardiner Backpack Issues

[scottish cleaning service]

At an early stage I realised you really need to get two of everything bar a van and system, handy if you could afford it. I bought one backpack and realised I needed two so I bought another. I now buy another when one fails so I will always have two. ?

 

[Josh Lucas]

@Alex Gardiner

Thanks for the response.

Yes I'm still awaiting a response from the customer service team. Understand that it's a bank holiday weekend though, so that could be the reason for the delay. 

How would you best recommend testing the pump? Someone above mentioned connecting it to car battery, would this be advisable? 

An electrician friend of mine has lent me a multimeter, so will test the battery on that now. 

A general question to the other members of the forum. If the pump does need replacing what would you recommend that would fit inside backpack? Hopefully the next one will last a bit longer. I'm not sure if there are more trustworthy pumps that I can use. 

 

[Alex Gardiner]

@Alex Gardiner

Thanks for the response.

Yes I'm still awaiting a response from the customer service team. Understand that it's a bank holiday weekend though, so that could be the reason for the delay. 

How would you best recommend testing the pump? Someone above mentioned connecting it to car battery, would this be advisable? 

An electrician friend of mine has lent me a multimeter, so will test the battery on that now. 

A general question to the other members of the forum. If the pump does need replacing what would you recommend that would fit inside backpack? Hopefully the next one will last a bit longer. I'm not sure if there are more trustworthy pumps that I can use. 

Hi Josh

I have checked the email system and the last communication with yourself was an email sent from our Customer Service Team on the 29th to you, asking you to fit the replacement battery terminals and follow the previously sent troubleshooting guide and then if still not working to get back to them. I cannot see anything after that email from you that you would be waiting on - as I can see the Customer Service Team were waiting for your reply as to whether fitting the new terminals and following the troubleshooting guide had helped or not.

Have you sent something after the 29th? If so it has not been received on our email system.

Testing the pump - any 12v power source should do - a car battery would work well and would have enough power so that even if the pump is corroded and fused it would cause no harm to the battery.

Trustworthy Pumps - how long a pump will last can depend on the substances you are using in the backpack. What chemicals are you using in this backpack? The longevity of the pump can also depend on how damp the backpack gets - leaving the backpack tank full of liquid will cause condensation over night. If condensation is an issue in your vehicle than emptying the backpack after each use can help prevent most of the condensation that could form inside the backpack - this will also extend the life of the components.

 

[Josh Lucas]

@Alex Gardiner

I sent an email Friday, 30th @ 17:42. Was awaiting response, but had assumed that I wouldn't get one till the next working day. We have been playing ping-pong with the emails as I'm only able to run tests after working hours. 

The battery seems fine given the below multimeter reading. Should I test pump on car or does this narrow it down enough to invest in a new pump? Would it be good to include some silica gel packets in the base to reduce condensation chances? 

I haven't used any chemicals in the backpack. Just pure water, sometimes straight from the tap for facias and stuff. Given that the pump has only lasted a few months longer than warranty is there anything you can offer? 

Thanks for the out of hours advice.

 

[Josh Lucas]

Is the below test direct pump to battery enough to show that the pump is gone?

 

[Alex Gardiner]

@Alex Gardiner

I sent an email Friday, 30th @ 17:42. Was awaiting response, but had assumed that I wouldn't get one till the next working day. We have been playing ping-pong with the emails as I'm only able to run tests after working hours. 

The battery seems fine given the below multimeter reading. Should I test pump on car or does this narrow it down enough to invest in a new pump? Would it be good to include some silica gel packets in the base to reduce condensation chances? 

I haven't used any chemicals in the backpack. Just pure water, sometimes straight from the tap for facias and stuff. Given that the pump has only lasted a few months longer than warranty is there anything you can offer? 

Thanks for the out of hours advice.

View attachment 24498

That will be why you have not had a reply yet ?

My advice has superseded the need for them to reply to you now.

I would still advise testing the pump directly on another battery just to be sure - however it is looking like the pump is the issue - it could just be a simple sticking pressure swicth though which testing on another battery may free up. Let us know what this test shows.

Silica Gel - in reality this would probably only last a single night as if the backpack is left full of cold water overnight it would generate enough moisture to use it up. Also as the backpack base is grilled the silica gel would carry on absorbing moisture from your whole vehicle -  unless you keep your vehicle heated or in a garage overnight it would need replacing very frequently and be a never ending task. So I would not advise using this inside the backpack.

 

[Josh Lucas]

That will be why you have not had a reply yet ?

My advice has superseded the need for them to reply to you now.

I would still advise testing the pump directly on another battery just to be sure - however it is looking like the pump is the issue - it could just be a simple sticking pressure switch though which testing on another battery may free up. Let us know what this test shows.

So tried connecting the pump wires direct to car battery. Not sure what's meant to happen, but didn't see any change. Just some crackling from the end of the wires. 

Can you send a guide on how to change the pump? 

For other members of forum as well - what would be an appropriate pump to install? Would the below suit? 

I might just get a couple of them just in case. Im thinking at least they have a years warranty. I don't really want to be switching out components multiple times in a year

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352709637767?

 

[Marko067]

The original one I believe is a 4 litre per minute (LPM) 60 psi pump.  The problem with a 130 psi pump is it may be too powerful for the controller and it will definitely flatten the battery quicker. Also if you use a univalve you will more than likely have problems with the operation of that too if you go with the 130 PSI pump.  I personally wouldn’t go higher than  a 5 LPM pump rated no higher than 100 PSI.  I have used one of these in my backpack - though not a Gardiner one. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163712157833?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[Josh Lucas]

@Marko067

Ok thanks. That's helpful, I couldn't really find the specs of the Gardiner pump on their website. 

I do use univalve. 

I just want to make sure I purchase something that's going to work and give a longer than minimum life span.

 

[AW Services]

So tried connecting the pump wires direct to car battery. Not sure what's meant to happen, but didn't see any change. Just some crackling from the end of the wires. 

Can you send a guide on how to change the pump? 

For other members of forum as well - what would be an appropriate pump to install? Would the below suit? 

I might just get a couple of them just in case. Im thinking at least they have a years warranty. I don't really want to be switching out components multiple times in a year

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352709637767?

Sounds like the pump has burnt out and ceased.

I say it time and time again, when you enter this trade you have to be your own plumber, electrician, mechanic & engineer.

It's best to learn about basic electronics and study circuits in your spare time, it shocks me how many people do not have just a basic grasp of technological understanding.

I have heard many say "oh window cleanings an easy job" but when their equipment goes pete tong their whole world grinds to a halt

 

[Marko067]

One thing you will need to watch for is the physical length of the pump. I purchased one from Gardiner to use on my trolley and noticed it was shorter than the 5Lpm pumps. I can't be sure but looking at your picture it looks like the longer ones might not fit.

My experience with these small pumps is that generally it's not the pump itself that fails. It's a component (a microswitch) in the pressure switch on the end of the pump that fails.



The way to test this is to connect your pump directly to the battery like you did before, and then short out the two wires going to the pressure switch. If you pump then works the microswitch needs replacing. This can be done if you don't mind a little DIY as the exact one is nearly impossible to source. 

However, one of these will do the job. It's the same one that the bigger pumps like the Sureflo use.



...but you will need to modify the cap because as you can see it has three terminals and you need to use the two that are arrowed.  Here is the modification you need to make.  I used a sharp craft knife.



Once you have done this, the likelihood is that you will only ever have to replace the microswitch which is an easy job.

Something like this would do the job 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261719755895?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3cefb68c77:g:bHwAAOSww8ldXl0M&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkXKoKcbeZcOrOku%2BoOBl%2BSw1trYwNKpTv3SroZ50gFKwXEHMNXk7lj8QE4tGaeXTr1QWn31ZzgmIDvGMFHxZzn8RK8MgQej4ZLd5nJQyiK8IHqzAzpzFwzO5LXguKEaI30nDk8u9nG%2B9bPC%2FqQrH1A50SvGwywSnfBOfeTYd013TMNlGojG1JGVnQ5XptUZJvOKXkkJgUaj%2BGmk2vnptY8YlpFkqIA%2BkhpKurPh%2FHlk3WjWEaJuy2jvUkZY8a%2BcVEo203z9b8JQMzuAUFPmLT0PiGvlJjBZ45uTaXM%2Bf91o0WMnJRT7h%2B3mtZwGa12RiWNfHP8j2bFQ9BXSia2OrnRrFhS1lNC8MuS2YzcR3Cz19%2BKlLNILGiRbOPuIOf2Pl9LXHJyiPneDDeeMi4bnSUCfuO2KnBeNsHTg5kYH8KdKsNgzr49VivKpe5Gxq7%2BumzSqkWYuNxGVd6iaLIrP5g4R8T4HeGJFYl5clwu7Ry8ySWORnR2zW2DzOJNpb9UnIBu6zvC4950GPsiPd4IeNx%2FeI%2FOKLnYWFv9kEkcG5K1GaXG2KYLKflA31NKgslj%2B6RMWIWAa9VfYSmQnns4WK9vVrcydJANs62%2BrP5tOCE%2Bfrmam67LdMoYh1Kz8l2HS1BFO6oxqbiS94O6RgHEkYkr4YQiGrm4g4xXvNYO5%2BEsDz%2FhYfdDKicJW25%2BrA7MG9UJe5WBQbrTHCHLKIemzKvZH5qjdupJNDpPQ4pY81u3G8qZQqY7IYw%2FZg0j6i5JoRzprktVtfRad4T0u0R%2F%2F1gLA%3D%3D|cksum%3A2617197558956b25ca1883e84eecb5e9280981e3331d|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

 

[Iron Giant]

Sounds like the pump has burnt out and ceased.

I say it time and time again, when you enter this trade you have to be your own plumber, electrician, mechanic & engineer.

It's best to learn about basic electronics and study circuits in your spare time, it shocks me how many people do not have just a basic grasp of technological understanding.

I have heard many say "oh window cleanings an easy job" but when their equipment goes pete tong their whole world grinds to a halt

I don't think you need basic electronics knowledge when you have this forum to help from members like yourself,

What surprises me is the ones who don't carry a few basic spares and don't have toolbox in there van so even the very basic issues can be sorted within minutes at the back of the van, I have a toolbox full of the basic tools and spares and have done from very early on into wfp over 13 years ago. 

 

[AW Services]

I don't think you need basic electronics knowledge when you have this forum to help from members like yourself,

What surprises me is the ones who don't carry a few basic spares and don't have toolbox in there van so even the very basic issues can be sorted within minutes at the back of the van, I have a toolbox full of the basic tools and spares and have done from very early on into wfp over 13 years ago. 

Yes I agree but reliance on others doesn’t build your core skills on the fly.

Tools spares knowledge = workflow 

 

[Den]

This is the one I install a few weeks back cut the wires soldered and then shrinked wrapped ?

exact same mounts and correct flow position.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254418708795

 

[Alex Gardiner]

So tried connecting the pump wires direct to car battery. Not sure what's meant to happen, but didn't see any change. Just some crackling from the end of the wires. 

Can you send a guide on how to change the pump? 

For other members of forum as well - what would be an appropriate pump to install? Would the below suit? 

I might just get a couple of them just in case. Im thinking at least they have a years warranty. I don't really want to be switching out components multiple times in a year

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352709637767?

Hi Josh

This test has proved that it is the pump that has failed. You can of course carry out the extra test that Marko067 has suggested and this would show if it is the pump or the swicth. A new micro-switch would be much cheaper to replace or you may be able to free up the swicth.

We do not have a guide to changing the pumps - basically it would be:

1. Trace back the pump wires (red & green) and untwist from the twist connectors

2. Undo the four pump feet screws and pull pump out

3. Undo the two jubilee clips and pull off the orange hose from inlet and outlet barb

4. to fit new pump reverse the above steps.

Either of the pumps on eBay that have been linked to look like they will fit, but that is only based on the photos and of course I cannot guarantee they will fit. The pump on the link provided by Marko067 looks to be a better match for the current item than the 130psi you have linked to. However you will also need to check the warranty terms on this as their warranty may exclude commercial use.

 

[Josh Lucas]

@Marko067

Ok that makes sense. "Short out" means disconnect? I'll test the pump again without the pressure switch when I get in. 

I will study your microswitch images in more detail also, thank you for sharing them.

@Apw1210@Iron Giant

I do apologise for my novice questions. I do have a lack of knowledge in this area. 

The reason is I am 90-95% trad. I only use wfp for conservatory roofs, leaded windows and anything I can't get a ladder safely to. So I'm having to stomach the time spent fixing these issues when I could be running up my ladders earning coin! You can only learn by doing though, I do feel like I can assemble this backpack in my sleep now! 

I do really appreciate the help and comments of all in assisting with the diagnosis. 

If anyone has any other suggestions of what pump would fit the Gardiner Backpack then please do leave a link. 

Thank you

 

[Josh Lucas]

@Alex Gardiner

Hi Alex

Thanks for the instructions. 

If the next test shows it is the micro-switch that needs changing can you recommend where to source one?

Thank you all for the responses on your Bank Holiday Monday. 

 

[Alex Gardiner]

@Alex Gardiner

Hi Alex

Thanks for the instructions. 

If the next test shows it is the micro-switch that needs changing can you recommend where to source one?

Thank you all for the responses on your Bank Holiday Monday. 

Hi Josh

If it is the switch then the one on Marko067's link looked suitable and cheap - otherwise I would start trawling through RS Spares website.

 

[Marko067]

@Marko067

Ok that makes sense. "Short out" means disconnect? I'll test the pump again without the pressure switch when I get in.

'Short out' means to remove the wires from the microswitch and join them together, effectively removing the micro switch from the circuit.

(You cannot use your backpack like this because it will not turn off when you operate the univalve and the pump will overpressure the system.)

 

[AW Services]

@Marko067

Ok that makes sense. "Short out" means disconnect? I'll test the pump again without the pressure switch when I get in. 

I will study your microswitch images in more detail also, thank you for sharing them.

@Apw1210@Iron Giant

I do apologise for my novice questions. I do have a lack of knowledge in this area. 

The reason is I am 90-95% trad. I only use wfp for conservatory roofs, leaded windows and anything I can't get a ladder safely to. So I'm having to stomach the time spent fixing these issues when I could be running up my ladders earning coin! You can only learn by doing though, I do feel like I can assemble this backpack in my sleep now! 

I do really appreciate the help and comments of all in assisting with the diagnosis. 

If anyone has any other suggestions of what pump would fit the Gardiner Backpack then please do leave a link. 

Thank you

All you need to do is looks at the Gardiner website listed pump and play snap with Amazon 

You know your battery is 12v so therefore you need a 12v pump

Looking at the Gardiner pump you'll notice it's a small bore push on hose style 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ETXP-Diaphragm-Pressure-Automatic-Watering/dp/B091C2BNPB/ref=mp_s_a_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=12v+100psi+water+pump&qid=1620047431&sr=8-18

 

[Iron Giant]

I do apologise for my novice questions. I do have a lack of knowledge in this area. 

No need to apologise at all we were all novices once and with somethings I still am.