Gutter clearing off a ladder

[Deleted member 15640]

was it a ladder that pulled up by a rope? i remember yrs back i rang round the hire shops for a really big ladder to go 4 storey on a new house and one shop told me yes we DO have one,its out the back,,,, hasnt been used in yrs .... i later found a newer sounding one at a different shop but never got the job as the cost of the hire [£80] put me out of the running

@Bell Pallisey unfortunately they didn't have the rope pulley one. So it was a normal triple (14 rungs per section I think). It really was a pain to get up to height. The man in jewson said they don't hire many anymore since building sites etc rarely use them now. It was just under £30 for the day so at least that wasn't too bad.

 

[Yogi1872]

i too worked alone on ladders -and once fell the full drop too [when cleaning windows] but this threads about gutters i probably do 2 or 3 gutter jobs each week on ladders and about 1 in ten of these is the one where youre risking your neck if you dont have a helper .Guaranteed youre going to fall eventually if you do 3 gutter jobs per week every week that 150 jobs per year solo .

99% of the time someone has fallen from a ladder it's the person's fault. Used properly and youl be fine.

 

[Dave B]

99% of the time someone has fallen from a ladder it's the person's fault. Used properly and youl be fine.

Working off ladders is intrinsically dangerous due to how they work
You can’t say use properly you’ll be fine as it only takes one slip or mistake and you could be brown bread
I’ve had 2 bad ones in 30+ years but could have been unlucky and not be here now

 

[Yogi1872]

Working off ladders is intrinsically dangerous due to how they work
You can’t say use properly you’ll be fine as it only takes one slip or mistake and you could be brown bread
I’ve had 2 bad ones in 30+ years but could have been unlucky and not be here now

Was the ladder at the recommended angle ? Was the surface dry at the time? Did you go up more than 4 rungs from the top ? Carrying any weight up it ?. What footwear were you using? If all things are followed correctly it's highly unlikely youl fall. Hse kind of backs up my point.

Maybe you have just been unlucky, but generally the cause of a fall is human error and not the ladder.

This is from hse, notice the most common reasons all have one thing in common, it's not a defect in the ladde, it's how it's been used.

So unless you think the hse is talking **** what do you have what backs up your argument.

How many people die from falling off ladders?​

The HSE reports that 40 fatal injuries occurred in 2022/23 as a result of falls from height.

It was not reported how many of those 40 deaths were specifically caused by falls from a ladder. However, we have already seen that workers fall from ladders more than from any other location, so it is likely that a sizeable portion of those deadly falls involved ladders.

What are the main causes of ladder injuries?​

Some of the top causes of ladder accidents include:

• Failure to carry out a proper risk assessment. Before using a ladder, you (or your employer) should carry out a thorough risk assessment to determine whether you’ve chosen the right tool for the job. In some cases, a ladder may not be suitable – for example, if you are planning to work at height for hours on end, a scaffold tower may be a safer choice.
  
  
• Using a defective ladder. Always carry out a quick visual inspection before you get on a ladder. If there are any signs of damage, play it safe and get a new ladder instead of risking your safety.
  
  
• Incorrect ladder setup. A ladder is only safe to use if set up correctly in an environment where it is unlikely to move while in use. For example, you should not position your ladder on top of an unstable platform or in front of a doorway. You should also avoid connecting multiple ladders or using a ladder outside of its intended purpose (e.g. using a standard step ladder as a stairwell ladder).
  
  
• Incorrect ladder use. Ladders should only be used by trained employees who understand how to stay safe on ladders. Certain behaviours – such as overreaching to one side, overloading the ladder, or standing on the very top rung – are dangerous and will significantly increase your risk of falling.

 

[Dave B]

Was the ladder at the recommended angle ? Was the surface dry at the time? Did you go up more than 4 rungs from the top ? Carrying any weight up it ?. What footwear were you using? If all things are followed correctly it's highly unlikely youl fall. Hse kind of backs up my point.

Maybe you have just been unlucky, but generally the cause of a fall is human error and not the ladder.

This is from hse, notice the most common reasons all have one thing in common, it's not a defect in the ladde, it's how it's been used.

So unless you think the hse is talking **** what do you have what backs up your argument.

How many people die from falling off ladders?​

The HSE reports that 40 fatal injuries occurred in 2022/23 as a result of falls from height.

It was not reported how many of those 40 deaths were specifically caused by falls from a ladder. However, we have already seen that workers fall from ladders more than from any other location, so it is likely that a sizeable portion of those deadly falls involved ladders.

What are the main causes of ladder injuries?​

Some of the top causes of ladder accidents include:

• Failure to carry out a proper risk assessment. Before using a ladder, you (or your employer) should carry out a thorough risk assessment to determine whether you’ve chosen the right tool for the job. In some cases, a ladder may not be suitable – for example, if you are planning to work at height for hours on end, a scaffold tower may be a safer choice.
  
  
• Using a defective ladder. Always carry out a quick visual inspection before you get on a ladder. If there are any signs of damage, play it safe and get a new ladder instead of risking your safety.
  
  
• Incorrect ladder setup. A ladder is only safe to use if set up correctly in an environment where it is unlikely to move while in use. For example, you should not position your ladder on top of an unstable platform or in front of a doorway. You should also avoid connecting multiple ladders or using a ladder outside of its intended purpose (e.g. using a standard step ladder as a stairwell ladder).
  
  
• Incorrect ladder use. Ladders should only be used by trained employees who understand how to stay safe on ladders. Certain behaviours – such as overreaching to one side, overloading the ladder, or standing on the very top rung – are dangerous and will significantly increase your risk of falling.

Hence why I said one mistake or slip
Ladders are dangerous full stop
I am an experienced climber but could still make a mistake and fall 200ft
Ladders are 100% more dangerous than standing on the floor

 

[Cleanco]

I still use ladders quite regularly if safe to do so. Thanks to wfp, gutter vacs etc it has eliminated most of the risks that this job used to have. Count me out at 200ft though? I still see the guys doin the church spires off ladders which is some height.

 

[ks789]

Before water fed pole took off big, window cleaners were the most common death/serious accidents of uk workers. I was told this in 2003 while in hospital for a week after the ladder I was cleaning from slid back away from me. ( slimy wet green patio surface) If you think about it trad windies are up and down ladders more than anyone. So wfp has saved countless lives. Im surprised I dont often get asked to clear out gutters, out of about 250 customers. I'll do bungalows, but turn down high up house gutters. Dont want a big van so cant be having a vac etc. At the end of the day if windows pay enough let someone else do it.

 

[ECLM]

I always use a gutter vac unless its absolutely necessary to use a ladder.

Try gutter vacuum systems, they have hook attachments to help with things like that, but you'll need a solid neck (they do the adaptor for silicone necks too, so don't necessarily need to buy carbon.

 

[Peter J]

I’ve only got a relatively short ladder, if I can’t reach easily with that I’m not getting to it. I pick up so much work these days because the custys previous window cleaner fell off his ladder. Might be the same guy and I’m just discovering his round but either way I don’t want to go the same way.

 

[Part Timer]

Hence why I said one mistake or slip
Ladders are dangerous full stop
I am an experienced climber but could still make a mistake and fall 200ft
Ladders are 100% more dangerous than standing on the floor

Some alleged "star", George Gilby, died yesterday after falling from height. Doesn't say a ladder but invariably a ladder would have been used.

 

[Dave B]

Before water fed pole took off big, window cleaners were the most common death/serious accidents of uk workers. I was told this in 2003 while in hospital for a week after the ladder I was cleaning from slid back away from me. ( slimy wet green patio surface) If you think about it trad windies are up and down ladders more than anyone. So wfp has saved countless lives. Im surprised I dont often get asked to clear out gutters, out of about 250 customers. I'll do bungalows, but turn down high up house gutters. Dont want a big van so cant be having a vac etc. At the end of the day if windows pay enough let someone else do it.

I looked online at statistics a few years ago and window cleaners was one of the most dangerous occupations in the uk above even deep sea fisherman
No matter what people like @Yogi1872 say (funny he hasn’t replied lol) it is dangerous to use ladders hence why some of the big commercial jobs we do softwashing and gutter vac etc we have to allow for the price of a cherry picker or tower scaffolding to do the job as their insurance won’t allow us to use ladders
If it was safe they wouldn’t have that problem
Also after all that stuff from hse it was not posted where they say ladders can be used when no other option is feasible I.e: you are on the ladder for such a short time scaffolding etc isn’t practical

 

[Cleanco]

I looked online at statistics a few years ago and window cleaners was one of the most dangerous occupations in the uk above even deep sea fisherman
No matter what people like @Yogi1872 say (funny he hasn’t replied lol) it is dangerous to use ladders hence why some of the big commercial jobs we do softwashing and gutter vac etc we have to allow for the price of a cherry picker or tower scaffolding to do the job as their insurance won’t allow us to use ladders
If it was safe they wouldn’t have that problem
Also after all that stuff from hse it was not posted where they say ladders can be used when no other option is feasible I.e: you are on the ladder for such a short time scaffolding etc isn’t practical

My public liability and employers liability insurance almost halved last year as the underwriters said that window cleaning is now considered a relatively low risk job due to most work being competed from ground level or via cherry pickers, scaffold etc. I did declare minimal ladder usage though up to 25 feet. I doubt most would be in this job if they had to do it the “old ways”. Thinkin back it’s frightening some of the stuff we used to do to earn a crust.

 

[Deleted member 15640]

I looked online at statistics a few years ago and window cleaners was one of the most dangerous occupations in the uk above even deep sea fisherman
No matter what people like @Yogi1872 say (funny he hasn’t replied lol) it is dangerous to use ladders hence why some of the big commercial jobs we do softwashing and gutter vac etc we have to allow for the price of a cherry picker or tower scaffolding to do the job as their insurance won’t allow us to use ladders
If it was safe they wouldn’t have that problem
Also after all that stuff from hse it was not posted where they say ladders can be used when no other option is feasible I.e: you are on the ladder for such a short time scaffolding etc isn’t practical

@Dave B absolutely spot on. When I hired the ladder the man at the hire shop said they get very little call for ladders any more because people don't really use them now. Even on building sites there's only the odd one and that will be fully tied off etc. I saw a guy standing on a sloped roof around the corner from me a few weeks ago. It's shops and then two levels of flats above. Must have been 40 foot in the air on a sloped roof. As I drove up I thought it must have been a roofer, but when I actually drove past it was a local handyman service.

 

[laddergarder]

I have been using ladders for 17 years. Still clean windows traditionally. I have had two accidents in that time, both times the ladders slipped out from under me. Both my own fault in hinde sight, and I was OK. When used correctly they are perfectly safe. I have had more accidents in my home than I have had working off a ladder. But that doesn't mean working at height should be taken lightly. I also limit the height I work too to 20ft.

I have also cleaned gutters off a ladder with no issues, however it's not a service I currently offer.

The cost of gutter vacs can be a barrier for small business just starting out. If you already have a ladder, you would only need a stand off, bucket, scoop, rubble bags and zip ties to clean out gutters. There is hooks you can buy in B&Q which are quite useful.

If your only going to do a handful of jobs here and there, and would question the investment of an expensive gutter vac. If you have the cash, and hate heights, fare enough a vac is the way to go.

 

[Bell Pallisey]

few yrs ago i happened on a windie at the top of his ladder was a 2x2x12 incher piece of wood tied to the top rung [on the back side] he told me this was to hook over a window sill if the ladder slid out this was to catch on the sill. At the time i thought what a cool idea

 

[NoName]

I have been using ladders for 17 years. Still clean windows traditionally. I have had two accidents in that time, both times the ladders slipped out from under me. Both my own fault in hinde sight, and I was OK. When used correctly they are perfectly safe. I have had more accidents in my home than I have had working off a ladder. But that doesn't mean working at height should be taken lightly. I also limit the height I work too to 20ft.

I have also cleaned gutters off a ladder with no issues, however it's not a service I currently offer.

The cost of gutter vacs can be a barrier for small business just starting out. If you already have a ladder, you would only need a stand off, bucket, scoop, rubble bags and zip ties to clean out gutters. There is hooks you can buy in B&Q which are quite useful.

If your only going to do a handful of jobs here and there, and would question the investment of an expensive gutter vac. If you have the cash, and hate heights, fare enough a vac is the way to go.

A ladder is inherently unsafe - working at height is inherently unsafe. Working at height off a ladder compounds the risk…exponentially. I know three windies hospitalised - one fell two feet, one fell 12 feet airambulanced, one ~16ft. All sustained broken bones and one was in hospital for 1~2 months. They all gave up their ladder work.

That said I have two constantly in the van (plus a tower) but crucially mine look like Xmas trees with several built in safety features and/or after market aids used/fitted.

Falling from height (defined as >2ft) is the number one killer of UK working men - and ladders play a large part in that or rather they did a few years ago less nowdays because much fewer workers use them.

Do your ladders have/use any additional safety features eg wider stabiliser bar at base, splayed or self levelling feet, anakland stabilisers at sides, laddermate, ladder mats or stand off at top etc?

If you combine a few of the safety features you can dramatically improve their safety. But using them for every job every day is playing russian roulette imho. As you age your bones become increasingly brittle. Switch to WFP you’ll not go back.

Imho a guttervac is essential - it will pay for itself within the first week or two. Not sure anyone goes back to clearing it manually - unless the job dictates it. It enables you to bid/secure commercial work which could cover the initial outlay on the first or second job.
Your productivity will increase and will you’ll not miss all the cuts and scuffs from groping around in gutters.

 

[Dave B]

This hse guy proves how safe ladders are

 

[NoName]

This hse guy proves how safe ladders are

Haven’t seen that for a few years - the instructor forgot Rule 101 - your belt buckle (centre of gravity) should never be outside of either stile. H&S training has understandably moved on a little since then!

 

[mel]

I have been using ladders for 17 years. Still clean windows traditionally. I have had two accidents in that time, both times the ladders slipped out from under me. Both my own fault in hinde sight, and I was OK. When used correctly they are perfectly safe. I have had more accidents in my home than I have had working off a ladder. But that doesn't mean working at height should be taken lightly. I also limit the height I work too to 20ft.

I have also cleaned gutters off a ladder with no issues, however it's not a service I currently offer.

The cost of gutter vacs can be a barrier for small business just starting out. If you already have a ladder, you would only need a stand off, bucket, scoop, rubble bags and zip ties to clean out gutters. There is hooks you can buy in B&Q which are quite useful.

If your only going to do a handful of jobs here and there, and would question the investment of an expensive gutter vac. If you have the cash, and hate heights, fare enough a vac is the way to go.

I do the same all from ladder, I just take my time. No vac, just bucket, bags scoop

 

[mel]

I just wondered how many of you (if at all) cleared gutters off a ladder?

I usually do them by a gutter sucker vacuum, but I do check them from a ladder if necessary if a downpipe is blocked or an end cap pops off.

I have just moved to a town house and the previous resident (20 years +) had never had them cleared. There are only 4 small areas of gutter, 2 at the front, 2 at the back, but my vacuum just couldn't budge it. In the end I hired a very long ladder and went up and cleared them by hand. It was like thick turf, and being 30 foot up on a ladder isn't fun even though I don't mind heights. Fair play if you do, but I don't envy anyone who clears them off a ladder for each job.

I'm ladder just don't look down to much lol

 

[Pjj]

This hse guy proves how safe ladders are

lol absolute classic love it