Hot water in Winter

[Deleted member 84]

I've just gone hot water this week. I've got immersion heating up to around 40 c in the tank and it's measuring 30c out of the brush head. Do you think this temperature is high enough for glass not to freeze if and when the weather turns cold.

 

[Pjj]

I've just gone hot water this week. I've got immersion heating up to around 40 c in the tank and it's measuring 30c out of the brush head. Do you think this temperature is high enough for glass not to freeze if and when the weather turns cold.

The tank temperature is one thing but bare in mind the water will be hotter at the top of the tank by quite a few degrees and you  are taking water from the bottom of the tank . 

The more hose  you have out and if it’s laying on freezing ground it will loose heat quickly  , so I doubt you will be getting 30 degrees at the brush if the tanks 40 , once water has run off the window it looses heat very quickly we have been using 70 degree water today and there was a heavy frost and within seconds of it being on the ground the heat was gone from it , it won’t freeze whilst you are cleaning the window but it could freeze quickly on the ground . 

 

[spruce]

I've just gone hot water this week. I've got immersion heating up to around 40 c in the tank and it's measuring 30c out of the brush head. Do you think this temperature is high enough for glass not to freeze if and when the weather turns cold.

We have only had water freeze on the windows a few times in 17 years of wfp.

The first was a house with a broken central heating boiler. The owners were living the Middle East. We were only cold back then. I spent ages on each window, scrubbing and rinsing to warm the glass up enough for the water not to freeze immediately. The boiler got fixed the next day and when the water melted and dried off the glass the windows were perfect.

The second was a business we had to clean between Christmas and New Year. They turned the heating off. When I checked back on the windows after new year, they had dried fine.

The last 2 issues we have had were on conservatory window cleans. Both conservatory were built on the north facing side of the house. We always leave those cleans to a day when it's not freezing cold, and they are done in the afternoon, not the morning.

 

[Pjj]

We have only had water freeze on the windows a few times in 17 years of wfp.

The first was a house with a broken central heating boiler. The owners were living the Middle East. We were only cold back then. I spent ages on each window, scrubbing and rinsing to warm the glass up enough for the water not to freeze immediately. The boiler got fixed the next day and when the water melted and dried off the glass the windows were perfect.

The second was a business we had to clean between Christmas and New Year. They turned the heating off. When I checked back on the windows after new year, they had dried fine.

The last 2 issues we have had were on conservatory window cleans. Both conservatory were built on the north facing side of the house. We always leave those cleans to a day when it's not freezing cold, and they are done in the afternoon, not the morning.

Turn the boiler on spruce no issues at all ??? I had water freeze on a conservatory when I first went wfp I scraped it all off with a scraper took me over 2 hours lol you live and learn ??????

 

[spruce]

Turn the boiler on spruce no issues at all ??? I had water freeze on a conservatory when I first went wfp I scraped it all off with a scraper took me over 2 hours lol you live and learn ??????

What I find amazing it that the wfp newbies these days are able to think about this and then ask the question.

Back in the early days when we were wfp newbies, we ran by the seat of our pants. We had been wfp for a couple of years before we came up against this problem house with the broken boiler. It caught me by surprise and I admit I went into panic mode. What happens if all the windows shatter with being frozen? But once the proverbial dust had settled and every thing was ok, I wasn't phased when it happened a second time with that Christmas/New Year clean. I was just resigned that this job was going to take much longer than it had done before. We had done that job every 4 weeks for around 5 years before the big freeze happened. No panic, just resigned to a long job. TBH not all the windows froze. The south facing side was OK, it was just those that faced north that froze.

We haven't had a frozen window issue in at least 8 years now. All houses with north facing conservatories get cleaned in the afternoon. Rather than waste my time and energy on a house with no central heating, I would notice the problem on the first window and would probably skip the clean until the problem is either rectified or it resolves itself. That's my modus operandi now. I honestly haven't got time to spend 2 hours on a clean that would normally take me half an hour.

 

[ched999uk]

The second was a business we had to clean between Christmas and New Year. They turned the heating off. When I checked back on the windows after new year, they had dried fine.

That's good to know. I would have panicked big time, I may have even gone home to boil some of my pure to melt the frozen off the windows ?

 

[Davy G]

The tank temperature is one thing but bare in mind the water will be hotter at the top of the tank by quite a few degrees and you  are taking water from the bottom of the tank . 

The more hose  you have out and if it’s laying on freezing ground it will loose heat quickly  , so I doubt you will be getting 30 degrees at the brush if the tanks 40 , once water has run off the window it looses heat very quickly we have been using 70 degree water today and there was a heavy frost and within seconds of it being on the ground the heat was gone from it , it won’t freeze whilst you are cleaning the window but it could freeze quickly on the ground . 

The fact that once settled, the temperature is higher at the top of the tank than at the bottom but not used first is actually a distinct advantage for immersion users, though it might seem counter intuitive. It means that the lower temperature water at the bottom of the tank is used first, with the slightly hotter layers easing down to replace it through the day and used in order. This is far and away better than drawing off the hottest water first, which would have us with a nice hot start but much cooler water through the rest of the day. Our temperature at the brush is at its hottest after about 2 or 3 hours working (half way through the working day) as the hottest water is then lowering to nearer the outlet level.
It's still too hot to put a hand in the tank after 6 or 7 hours working. This wouldn't be the case if the hottest water was drawn off first.

Like so many things, it's not always how it would seem. And like I said is a bit counter intuitive. ?

 

[spruce]

That's good to know. I would have panicked big time, I may have even gone home to boil some of my pure to melt the frozen off the windows ?

And when you start to panic, logical thinking goes out of the window. But now with the benefit of hindsight, experience has shown that having water freeze on the glass is not a train smash. Having a frozen house isn't actually our problem. It's our customer's problem, and having clean windows will not feature on his list of immediate concerns.

While we show empathy for a customer with no heating, we aren't there to take on his monkeys. That's the job of the boiler repair man. That's what he is paid for.?

 

[Part Timer]

And when you start to panic, logical thinking goes out of the window. But now with the benefit of hindsight, experience has shown that having water freeze on the glass is not a train smash. Having a frozen house isn't actually our problem. It's our customer's problem, and having clean windows will not feature on his list of immediate concerns.

While we show empathy for a customer with no heating, we aren't there to take on his monkeys. That's the job of the boiler repair man. That's what he is paid for.?

With the new top rated double glazing this will happen more often. Especially inland where it gets colder.

 

[spruce]

We had a customer who built his own house @Part Timer. It's since been sold. He's a window manufacturer on the commercial side. He fitted argon filled triple glazed windows in the house that be built. In the 12 years we cleaned that house, we never had the slightest hint that our water might freeze on the glass.

Google says that double-glazed units filled with argon are between 16 and 30% more efficient. (It doesn't say what they are compared to - presume ordinary double-glazed units.) This indicates to me that they still will let some heat escape.

I have never cleaned a window in the freezing conditions of an inland winter, so I'm less experienced regarding that. I'm sure there are still some old houses in the middle of nowhere heating with a coal fire, so water freezing on the glass is a possibility in those rural areas. @ALPINEYORKSgives his location as Bridlington. As Bridlington is also on the coast, I would have expected similar weather to what we experience on Teesside and you in Sunderland.

I spent a year working in Reading in 1999 and that winter there was the coldest I had ever experienced in the 5 years living in the UK up to then. I would imagine it would be tough cleaning windows in those temperatures. We have a spread of window cleaners from all over the country on this forum, but there are very few posts regarding water freezing on the glass they are cleaning. I'm sure if it often happened, then there would be more posts on the subject. However, the way heating costs are rising, we could have more issues with this in the future.

 

[Part Timer]

We had a customer who built his own house @Part Timer. It's since been sold. He's a window manufacturer on the commercial side. He fitted argon filled triple glazed windows in the house that be built. In the 12 years we cleaned that house, we never had the slightest hint that our water might freeze on the glass.

Google says that double-glazed units filled with argon are between 16 and 30% more efficient. (It doesn't say what they are compared to - presume ordinary double-glazed units.) This indicates to me that they still will let some heat escape.

I have never cleaned a window in the freezing conditions of an inland winter, so I'm less experienced regarding that. I'm sure there are still some old houses in the middle of nowhere heating with a coal fire, so water freezing on the glass is a possibility in those rural areas. @ALPINEYORKSgives his location as Bridlington. As Bridlington is also on the coast, I would have expected similar weather to what we experience on Teesside and you in Sunderland.

I spent a year working in Reading in 1999 and that winter there was the coldest I had ever experienced in the 5 years living in the UK up to then. I would imagine it would be tough cleaning windows in those temperatures. We have a spread of window cleaners from all over the country on this forum, but there are very few posts regarding water freezing on the glass they are cleaning. I'm sure if it often happened, then there would be more posts on the subject. However, the way heating costs are rising, we could have more issues with this in the future.

Cleaned an office block in Newcastle, had to do it on a weekend as too busy during the week. They froze badly and had to wait and do the side where the sun rose first.

 

[spruce]

Cleaned an office block in Newcastle, had to do it on a weekend as too busy during the week. They froze badly and had to wait and do the side where the sun rose first.

There is always a solution.