3 predictions for the future of window cleaning...

[TolishAPurd]

1) Rounds are going to be worth big bucks. With so many people wanting to enter the trade and go WFP, I think many are going to be forced to buy existing rounds out of necessity in this saturated market. Supply and demand will push the price up big time, IMO.

2) The prices will get pushed down by new WFP users charging silly prices. WFP has given people the chance to make good money in the time spent, so IMO new users will come in and undercut in a bid for survival whilst they try and build their rounds up, safe in the knowledge that they will still be on a reasonable wage.

3) Window cleaning will get rocked by something like EasyWindows, or AldiGlassCleaned, or JustaLidlGlassCleaned. It might be Poles, Romanians etc. or it might just be big business, but I reckon there is room for something to take window cleaning by storm. Picture the huge truck pulling up with the 10,000 gallon tank on board and poles and hoses everywhere, while they do every house on the street for 30p per window. Prices so cheap it would be stupid to not have a window cleaner.

What do you reckon? Any of your own?

 

[Diwrnach]

Don't like WFP Tolish? /emoticons/tongue.png

 

[MrBump]

1. Doesn't affect me, but would be good I guess.

2. Sadly quite likely, but hopefully not... Although hasn't it always been the case anyway? I hear on here all the time, one guy charges £2 per house and another £20 - but its usually the trad guy who's cheapest I thought.

3. Can't see this happening. With window cleaning comes an element of trust needed, custies want to know whos trampling all over their property and having access to seeing inside etc, even with wfp this isn't entirely lost. You won't get that with big business like that of car wash centre with 10 guys on one car type cleaning. Maybe the odd numpty might like that type of budget service, but I reckon the majority of the kind of people that actually want their windows cleaned are the type who want to know the guy doing it, whether for trust reasons or just because they like supporting a local guy/business or maybe with older folk its how its always been done.

Big business would be easier to sell as a one-off, but would quickly get a bad name for one reason or another imo and the average windie will prevail.

Not everything is down to price, many would rather support a local.business at a tenner rather than support big business with a fiver. Especially with a service. Let's hope it doesn't happen, it would be carnage if it did!

 

[TolishAPurd]

Don't like WFP Tolish? /emoticons/tongue.png

No mate, on the contrary, I think its great in the right hands. Its nothing to do with WFP other then the fact that the future is all moving towards it so I think it will have the most influence over the course the industry takes- even all the newbies are buying the gear before they have rounds. I'm just looking at it as the game changer it is. Like how every industry from the dawn of time has changed and evolved and the effects good/bad that it has left behind. In ten years time I wonder if we will look back on old threads and sigh about how much WFPers used to be able to earn before RyanSquirt took over the streets.

Just one of those food for thought threads.

 

[TolishAPurd]

1. Doesn't affect me, but would be good I guess.
2. Sadly quite likely, but hopefully not... Although hasn't it always been the case anyway? I hear on here all the time, one guy charges £2 per house and another £20 - but its usually the trad guy who's cheapest I thought.

3. Can't see this happening. With window cleaning comes an element of trust needed, custies want to know whos trampling all over their property and having access to seeing inside etc, even with wfp this isn't entirely lost. You won't get that with big business like that of car wash centre with 10 guys on one car type cleaning. Maybe the odd numpty might like that type of budget service, but I reckon the majority of the kind of people that actually want their windows cleaned are the type who want to know the guy doing it, whether for trust reasons or just because they like supporting a local guy/business or maybe with older folk its how its always been done.

Big business would be easier to sell as a one-off, but would quickly get a bad name for one reason or another imo and the average windie will prevail.

Not everything is down to price, many would rather support a local.business at a tenner rather than support big business with a fiver. Especially with a service. Let's hope it doesn't happen, it would be carnage if it did!

1) But it will effect you one day mate- it'll be your retirement fund that pays for your whores n viagra :thumbsup: ....maybe thats just my plans.

2) You're right about the trad prices. Its why I think it may happen to WFP. Things have a habit of going full circle.

3) My thinking is that it might be so cheap that it'll be like putting your bins out. People could be so used to the window cleaner coming and cleaning on a certain day that paying anything else would just be dumb. Reminds me of supermarkets overtaking the corner shops. As much as I get on with Apu, I much prefer going into the faceless supermarket and getting nice fresh items instead of the dusty cans and milk thats about to expire. Not saying the service we offer is naff but imagine if it was done on a huge scale with beautiful big trucks that did hot washing as standard and had all the staff in nice uniforms etc. We could be made to look like a tired corner shop of sorts.

 

[MrBump]

That's true, it could happen I guess and I certainly prefer the bigger selection and better price of supermarkets too. But we are a service so hopefully it's slightly different. You can fly easy jet and many do, but many don't and then there's business class, private jets etc. Cheap coffe or starbucks etc or local cafe etc. And which supermarket, lidl, tescos, waitrose, ocado etc. Custies like choice. The only benefit I can see is if the whole street does sign up cos its cheap, at least they are on the windie bangwagon so if the big business ever stalls there are more potential custies out there.

You can't run a business with lots of labour, good equipment, fancy vans etc for cheap money forever, it will crash. If there was a big investor they could do that though to get everyone on board and drive out the small businesses (or get them to be employees) and then drive the prices back up before the business goes under.

It won't affect me though as when I get my 22's I'll have a fancy van, uniform is on its way and I will tell all my custies that hot water can crack glass and damage seals in the winter /emoticons/biggrin.png Don't be the tired old cornershop, be the organic local friendly upmarket free range market shop :thumbsup:

 

[TolishAPurd]

That's true, it could happen I guess and I certainly prefer the bigger selection and better price of supermarkets too. But we are a service so hopefully it's slightly different. You can fly easy jet and many do, but many don't and then there's business class, private jets etc. Cheap coffe or starbucks etc or local cafe etc. And which supermarket, lidl, tescos, waitrose, ocado etc. Custies like choice. The only benefit I can see is if the whole street does sign up cos its cheap, at least they are on the windie bangwagon so if the big business ever stalls there are more potential custies out there.
You can't run a business with lots of labour, good equipment, fancy vans etc for cheap money forever, it will crash. If there was a big investor they could do that though to get everyone on board and drive out the small businesses (or get them to be employees) and then drive the prices back up before the business goes under.

It won't affect me though as when I get my 22's I'll have a fancy van, uniform is on its way and I will tell all my custies that hot water can crack glass and damage seals in the winter /emoticons/biggrin.png Don't be the tired old cornershop, be the organic local friendly upmarket free range market shop :thumbsup:

Exactly what I was thinking;we could end up being thetrendy shop all the students and hippies got to with our couscous, and feta cheese at highly inflated prices. Being a tradder I reckon I could hire myself out for nostalgia parties, or maybe do cleaning work for museums to keep it authentic.

 

[peter rogers]

there is a romanian crew going round south belfast with a mini bus van and bout 10 ladders on a trailer i guess they doin it cheap

wont be long to they catch on to efp and then offer gardening etc indoor cleaning also the women do taht

 

[boarcity]

i dont think the turk/lithu wogs will get a toehold in window cleaning. i say that cos in the 8 yrs iv been a windie iv seen at least 3 of them set up and come and go-one had a 740 volvo estate, 4 up in it, all scowling faces, pound to a pinch theres a machete under the seats

only the other week i was sitting in my van perusing the diary waiting for my workers to arrive ,suddenly approached by a Pole ,tap tap on window ,all smiles,i thought he wanted a light but oh no -hes wanting to canvass for me-i was polite,gave him a biz card and told him to call me up later ,

he never did call and now when i see him he gives me the death stare ,glazed eyes- is he another doper on jimson weed at 8 a.m.? , its possible ,one things for sure his eyes say trouble - see you simply cant help em!

Back in 2011 i even employed one too as a windie for 6 months , rogue almost dragged me under - i know its a generalization but theyre a slimy mob- this doesnt sit well with brit customers who are "cancel happy" at the best of times

the trust just isnt there,the different culture and window clean dont mix well. oil and water

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

For years Tolish I have been an advocate of the 'smart van, right tools uniforms and smiles' but I don't see it happening on a scale that you speak of. Bumpy is right, it is a trust game, home in Jersey there was a Portuguese crew, large company doing almost all the commercial and at least several hundred domestic per month.

Domestic customers did not like them, just used them as that was the only option in the area, only reason domestics did not want them was 'only one of them could speak English' and trying to find him was a nightmare.

When we started touting their customers were biting our hands off just cause they understood us.

I think 2, 3, 4, vans with 2 operators in each, uniformed so the custys always know who but never a return to the prices you talk of.

As for worth big bucks, it's getting there, I just sold a days work £300 for £1600 cause it's too far frm my base camp these days. Depends on quality of round being sold though.

 

[adamangler]

haha boar, i think youre right though whilst some people maybe tolerant, i think the poles/romanians/lithu/pak/indi have that stigma, there plenty of other nationalities about that dont have that stigma as untrustworthy just to add.

but yes i dont think the majority of people will want these types cleaning there windows

however you will always get those who just want cheapest, thats where these guys have a market

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I did say some time ago to Vinnie I used to work with that if you could rock up on a street of 150 terraces and offer a 'front of house' service, front windows, frames and doors. for say £2 £2.50 and get them all on board you'd be laughing.

That would be a mornings work 8am - 1pm walk up one side of the road and back down the other all jobs done £300 - £375 - Only issue I see is collections.

I think that is the route the bin men went, only thing is people like me, I do my bin every 6 months or so, not that bothered, it's a bin and it lives outside! On my street of 40 terraces I think they have 4 customers.

The other reason it wont work Tolish is that Lidl, Aldi etc make their money on by stacking high and the customer going to them with their money, no way they could do the price & service you are thinking of and make it profitable even with their squad of retired wannabees 'When I was in the SAS' types knocking doors in the evening to collect.

The money is just not there to warrant the outlay.

I do see a future for a franchisee opportunity, first one to crack the system can then franchise other areas, so Davey can trade as 'Tolish & Sons Shiny Shiny' smart new van and gear, guaranteed so much income from customers sent in and canvassed by HQ at the same time bringing in his own customers also and doing so under a brand that is gradually getting national recognition. To the point where customer moves house / town they just call 'Tolish and Sons'

'Yes madam, we have an operative covering your area'

 

[Pickingpaul]

Have you have a bad nights sleep? Sounds like a window cleaners nightmare, some monster window cleaning truck pulling up on your round with poles like tenticles stealing all your work lol

I think that wont happen, would cost a fortune to fund that and then to charge less money to use it makes no sense

I dont think any of the fears are true

 

[Damo]

VERY interesting thread. I have had this chat several times over the last year and experienced it myself.

I personally think "patches" will return in a big way! There is soooo much more competition now its unreal. I made my website about 2/3 years years ago and performs very well. Now everyone with £500 can get the same (or better) Compact rounds are a thing of the past unless you are dedicated. I am blessed with my work but i also put in MAD hours to get it where it is.

We managed to look at the recession and work out what todo. Our biggest growth was from 2011 - 2013. Right in the middle of when the news was saying there is no money about.

All i will say is the rich still spend money........

I don't want to go to much into it as i would be helping my local competition. The points made in the OP are what i thought about a few years back. The key is too look at your competition and do the opposite. It honestly has worked for me! With this in mind you can build in a safety net for undercuttters, new technology etc.

 

[Pickingpaul]

if George Orwell had of been a window cleaner he would be thinking like this too

 

[TolishAPurd]

I did say some time ago to Vinnie I used to work with that if you could rock up on a street of 150 terraces and offer a 'front of house' service, front windows, frames and doors. for say £2 £2.50 and get them all on board you'd be laughing.
That would be a mornings work 8am - 1pm walk up one side of the road and back down the other all jobs done £300 - £375 - Only issue I see is collections.

I think that is the route the bin men went, only thing is people like me, I do my bin every 6 months or so, not that bothered, it's a bin and it lives outside! On my street of 40 terraces I think they have 4 customers.

The other reason it wont work Tolish is that Lidl, Aldi etc make their money on by stacking high and the customer going to them with their money, no way they could do the price & service you are thinking of and make it profitable even with their squad of retired wannabees 'When I was in the SAS' types knocking doors in the evening to collect.

The money is just not there to warrant the outlay.

I do see a future for a franchisee opportunity, first one to crack the system can then franchise other areas, so Davey can trade as 'Tolish & Sons Shiny Shiny' smart new van and gear, guaranteed so much income from customers sent in and canvassed by HQ at the same time bringing in his own customers also and doing so under a brand that is gradually getting national recognition. To the point where customer moves house / town they just call 'Tolish and Sons'

'Yes madam, we have an operative covering your area'

Yep, there's someone doing a franchise on Gumtree, but I can't find the link right now, that's a possibility alright.

While everyone is saying about the cost to setup, I'm not so sure it can't be done. Lots and lots of purpose made trucks bought in bulk brings costs down. 'Operatives' on barely over minimum wage. Water produced for pennies at the depot, filling a huge tank with no need to stop or return to base. Every customer on 12 month contract direct debit, and the faceless vans turning up at the same day every month regardless of weather. National advertising. And if it was a store like tesco, you could just have a pack of leaflets at the till with all the bells n whistles to draw people in. You would be advertising to millions of customers every day up and down the country while they do their weekly shop. Thats how I would run it anyway.

Have you have a bad nights sleep? Sounds like a window cleaners nightmare, some monster window cleaning truck pulling up on your round with poles like tenticles stealing all your work lol
I think that wont happen, would cost a fortune to fund that and then to charge less money to use it makes no sense

I dont think any of the fears are true

I think too much when on the windows. /emoticons/biggrin.png

While everyone is saying about the cost to setup, I'm not so sure it can't be done. Lots and lots of purpose made trucks bought in bulk brings costs down. 'Operatives' on barely over minimum wage. Water produced for pennies at the depot, filling a huge tank with no need to stop or return to base. Every customer on 12 month contract direct debit, and the faceless vans turning up at the same day every month regardless of weather. National advertising. And if it was a store like tesco, you could just have a pack of leaflets at the till with all the bells n whistles to draw people in. You would be advertising to millions of customers every day up and down the country while they do their weekly shop. Thats how I would run it anyway.

Take my mate in the car valetting business. He had to pack up shop once the yellow bunch started on every street. He used to be able to charge good money for what he did £30-50.... the 'going rate' got reduced to a fiver in a matter of months. He used to be able toboast about being better quality, but money talks and people still went across to the poles. I saw a lambourgini gallardo being cleaning in our local one a few weeks back. SO even the most richest with the best cars are trusting of them.

VERY interesting thread. I have had this chat several times over the last year and experienced it myself.
I personally think "patches" will return in a big way! There is soooo much more competition now its unreal. I made my website about 2/3 years years ago and performs very well. Now everyone with £500 can get the same (or better) Compact rounds are a thing of the past unless you are dedicated. I am blessed with my work but i also put in MAD hours to get it where it is.

We managed to look at the recession and work out what todo. Our biggest growth was from 2011 - 2013. Right in the middle of when the news was saying there is no money about.

All i will say is the rich still spend money........

I don't want to go to much into it as i would be helping my local competition. The points made in the OP are what i thought about a few years back. The key is too look at your competition and do the opposite. It honestly has worked for me! With this in mind you can build in a safety net for undercuttters, new technology etc.

Yep, doing something different is usually the way to crack it. Right now this industry is run by small businesses, and once established they are all doing well for themselves. So what's the chance that some huge company with a massive budget, the ability to work at a loss for a few years, established familly name, and nationwide advertising can't make a break for it and succeed. Makes you think eh.

 

[TolishAPurd]

if George Orwell had of been a window cleaner he would be thinking like this too

Exactly mate, I'm a visionary./emoticons/biggrin.png

 

[MrBump]

Tolish if a large company started up with all new gear and hired people on minimum wage and sent them out on their own it won't last long. They won't carr about looking after equipment, won't bother doing a decent job, their will be claims from customers for broken bits and pieces, trust on collections and not all custies will want direct debit, they won't care full stop. And once they realise money is to be made and they know what to do they will break away and start their own windie business up. Not much money at the lidl end of the market, too much risk / hassle, at the other end then may be..

 

[TolishAPurd]

Tolish if a large company started up with all new gear and hired people on minimum wage and sent them out on their own it won't last long. They won't carr about looking after equipment, won't bother doing a decent job, their will be claims from customers for broken bits and pieces, trust on collections and not all custies will want direct debit, they won't care full stop. And once they realise money is to be made and they know what to do they will break away and start their own windie business up. Not much money at the lidl end of the market, too much risk / hassle, at the other end then may be..

People can be trained mate, and rewards for the good soldier. Take trigger with his broom, he would get a nice bonus for looking after his tools.:thumbsup:

As for folk breaking away, this is always the case in most businesses, but something that will always stay the same, is for people to want a secure pay check at the end of the month. Its a fear that keeps people on the books and paying their taxes year after year. And with a national company kicking the **** out of the prices it might not be worth it for the average windy.

 

[peter rogers]

ive said before if u have a old guy driving at @10 per hour + holidays and that then a young lad out with him say 18-20 year old and pay him min wage at the high rate min wage at the min for this age group is 5.13 per hour pay him 7 and uel still be msking grand money

if u treat your staff well they wont stray treat them like shite and they will take there chane when they can

 

[TolishAPurd]

ive said before if u have a old guy driving at @10 per hour + holidays and that then a young lad out with him say 18-20 year old and pay him min wage at the high rate min wage at the min for this age group is 5.13 per hour pay him 7 and uel still be msking grand money
if u treat your staff well they wont stray treat them like shite and they will take there chane when they can

Exactly. Driver- older, wiser, and more responsibility. Gopher- trainee, basic money, needs to prove himself to get up to driver job.