Pricing please help

[Woody1981]

I only started less than 12 months ago with a generous budget of almost 25k and its been the worst decision ever. Got a newish van all professionally wrapped and all clothing printed and always mentioned when giving quotes that I clean the windows, frames, sills and doors using purified water that dries leaving the glass perfectly clean. My idea was to offer a "better" service at a slightly higher price. On a lot of quotes even though the potential customer wasn't happy with their current/previous window cleaner they weren't happy to pay any more for a better service. After 10 months and 80,000 leaflets delivered and many hundreds of doors knocked I'd only got 86 customers (Didn't really warrant the reelmaster )
Out of those 86 customers only 1 agreed to set-up a direct debit. Now 26 of these 86 customers have either constantly failed to leave gates unlocked for access despite me texting them the evening before or have failed to pay via BACS or over 2 months or keep wanting to skip a clean, so I've got rid of all 26 leaving me with 60 customers Out of these 60 customers the majority of them have awkward access or are awkward in some way or other. In other words they are jobs that a well established window cleaner wouldn't take on.
If an area is flooded with cleaners it's almost impossible to build up a round. It's certainly impossible to build up a compact round.
I recently did 9 x £10 jobs and it took 5hrs due to having to get back in the van and sit in traffic between each job. That's £18 per hour
You read on the forums about lads with hundreds of customers, all compact work, hardly needing to move the van all day, and all on GoCardless ...unfortunately that ain't happening where I am. To be honest I wouldn't want hundreds of customers if the prices are too low as there's no way am I standing there scrubbing windows on a 4 / 5 bedroom detached house with conservatory for £15 like most here are. Should have tested the water with just a backpack and worked from the car to start with instead of diving straight in.
Anyways light at the end of the tunnel...spent a few grand on a couple of triple motor gutter vacs, carbon poles and generator and the money is finally coming in.
These people who refuse to spend £20 having the windows on their 5 bedroom detached houses cleaned will happily pay £100 having their gutters vacuumed even though it takes roughly the same time as cleaning their windows, so that's the direction I've gone down.
A lot of these really good compact rounds were built many year's ago, often started as traditional gradually moving customers over to wfp. I guess some parts of the UK like Cornwall for example have a shortage of cleaners and building a good compact round there could be done rapidly with good prices earning over £60 per hour no problem, but there are other areas that building any sort of a round is near impossible. I tried various areas within 10 miles of where I live. The tank and the reelmaster have gone, the vans suspension is much happier for it, and I'll continue to do the few good paying decent customers I have with the Nano trolley just to give me a bit of a change from the gutters. I've only had 20,000 gutter cleaning leaflets delivered and they've given better results than the 80,000 I had delivered for windows and no more chapping doors!!

Can I ask where you are in the country because I’m planning on starting up in Somerset in the new year but reading this has given me some doubts that it could be a bad idea.

 

[doce]

I did initially offer choice of either 4 or 8 weekly cleans. I did one quote on a house consisting of 24 windows, 4 skylights and big conservatory.
She said her previous window cleaner charged £15 and it took him 15 minutes. I asked her was she happy with the service and she said no all the glass is streaky and he kept staring at me I explained that it would take me longer than 15 minutes to do a proper job and that I couldn't do it for less than £25.
She said that she would have to discuss it with her husband as it was £300 a year. For the next few weeks she text me 3 times to say she and her husband were still undecided and were still in discussions
Anyway they eventually agreed to the £25 clean. Anyway, I recently did their gutters with the vac and asked her husband could he plug the extension lead in. He opened the garage door and there was a stunning red ferrari inside a kind of see through tent which he explained kept the dust off and the heated garage kept "his baby" at the perfect temperature

And that, of course, is precisely how the well off become and remain well off. Tight financial control.

 

[dazmond]

Can I ask where you are in the country because I’m planning on starting up in Somerset in the new year but reading this has given me some doubts that it could be a bad idea.

I started up in jan 1993 just after Xmas and went canvassing on an estate in thick snow. I got 3 customers. I now clean 80+ houses on this estate and have done for most of the last 32 years....

These days you need
EVERYTHING! (website,Facebook,canvassing,leaflets and ads in local magazines in your chosen area) if your not buying a small round to start you off

 

[dazmond]

I worked full time for a local window cleaner for 12 months before starting on my own then he sold me a days work for £80. I went canvassing every week for 6 months while continuing to work for him a few days a week until I had enough work to go it alone.This took another few years.

I've only ever canvassed and done a small amount of leafleting but these days having an online presence,Facebook,etc is essential if you want to make it work.

You have to live,breathe and sleep window cleaning for years to become successful

By the way once you have a solid base of customers you ll find your round is self generating with no need for advertising(apart from a clean,tidy sign written van)and work will come to you through recommendation and walk ups(and most of these will be turned away).

 

[Chris Ashurst]

Can I ask where you are in the country because I’m planning on starting up in Somerset in the new year but reading this has given me some doubts that it could be a bad idea.

I'm in the North West in Lancashire.
You might do far better down in Somerset.
Too many window cleaners charging too low unfortunately where I am. Low prices and spaced out work is a disaster.
I drove down to Staffordshire the other day to buy a generator off someone who was just calling it a day with exterior cleaning and selling up. He was doing window cleaning, gutter cleaning, pressure washing, roof cleaning and carpet cleaning. He started 3 years ago and quit his job as a primary school teacher but is now going back to teaching. He said others were offering these services ridiculously cheap and he couldn't make it pay. Said he's going to continue doing the odd roof clean at the weekends as there's only one other person offering that service in his area. Don't know why people charge so cheap as it's all physical hard work that deserves paying well. Decent kit is expensive and needs servicing and replacing.

 

[spruce]

I'm in the North West in Lancashire.
You might do far better down in Somerset.
Too many window cleaners charging too low unfortunately where I am. Low prices and spaced out work is a disaster.
I drove down to Staffordshire the other day to buy a generator off someone who was just calling it a day with exterior cleaning and selling up. He was doing window cleaning, gutter cleaning, pressure washing, roof cleaning and carpet cleaning. He started 3 years ago and quit his job as a primary school teacher but is now going back to teaching. He said others were offering these services ridiculously cheap and he couldn't make it pay. Said he's going to continue doing the odd roof clean at the weekends as there's only one other person offering that service in his area. Don't know why people charge so cheap as it's all physical hard work that deserves paying well. Decent kit is expensive and needs servicing and replacing.

Unfortunately, this can be the effect of supply and demand.

New window cleaners do charge lower prices to help to get a round started. When they have built their round, they then drop those low paid jobs. Their old customer then looks for a new window cleaner, thinking he shouldn't pay any more than the previous guy charged. I've been told that if I could match the price the previous window cleaner charged, he would give me the job.
I've seen a couple become shocked when I quote my price. I now make a note of where all the local defibrillators are situated in case I need one. Our local job centre was encouraging jobseekers to become window cleaners at one time, charge rock bottom prices for bungalows and take the jobs from existing window cleaners as they could afford to lose the jobs as they had plenty of work. I lost a couple due to this.

It can also be the result of new window cleaners, having worked for an employer on minimum wage, figuring out that he can earn £20 cleaning 3 houses an hour which is twice what he was earning when employed.

In our area, it's also what potential customers believe they should pay for a window clean. I don't know where their perceived window cleaning price comes from, but it's there.

Most of the houses on our estate are 1960's 3 bed semis.
One example was that a window cleaner was charging £12 for his clean. He put the price up to £15 and the customer immediately cancelled. As far as he was concerned, £12 was the absolute limit. I know that this window cleaner has a new van he is paying off, so, as his expenses are high, he needs a higher price. I totally get that. But the customer isn't interested in the window cleaner's financial expenses.
According to a price per window quote formula put on here recently, that house would be charged at £17. Some comments were that that pricing structure was way too low. But I am pretty sure that someone quoting £17 for houses on this estate won't get one job.

We have the occasional how much do you pay for window cleaning on our local Facebook page. If some of the prices posters said they were paying were true, then I just shake my head. I got involved once and got accused of being a rip-off-merchant. I don't get involved now.

A number of years ago, Martin Lewis, the much revered financial guru, intimated on his TV show that people shouldn't be paying any more than £5 for a window clean of a 3 bed semi. I immediately thought of some window cleaners on income support charging £5 a 3 bed semi for cash in hand beer money to the east of us. This guy is a multi-millionaire and he is advising this. From that day on, the wife watches his show, but I don't.

 

[RyeCleanLiam]

Unfortunately, this can be the effect of supply and demand.

New window cleaners do charge lower prices to help to get a round started. When they have built their round, they then drop those low paid jobs. Their old customer then looks for a new window cleaner, thinking he shouldn't pay any more than the previous guy charged. I've been told that if I could match the price the previous window cleaner charged, he would give me the job.
I've seen a couple become shocked when I quote my price. I now make a note of where all the local defibrillators are situated in case I need one. Our local job centre was encouraging jobseekers to become window cleaners at one time, charge rock bottom prices for bungalows and take the jobs from existing window cleaners as they could afford to lose the jobs as they had plenty of work. I lost a couple due to this.

It can also be the result of new window cleaners, having worked for an employer on minimum wage, figuring out that he can earn £20 cleaning 3 houses an hour which is twice what he was earning when employed.

In our area, it's also what potential customers believe they should pay for a window clean. I don't know where their perceived window cleaning price comes from, but it's there.

Most of the houses on our estate are 1960's 3 bed semis.
One example was that a window cleaner was charging £12 for his clean. He put the price up to £15 and the customer immediately cancelled. As far as he was concerned, £12 was the absolute limit. I know that this window cleaner has a new van he is paying off, so, as his expenses are high, he needs a higher price. I totally get that. But the customer isn't interested in the window cleaner's financial expenses.
According to a price per window quote formula put on here recently, that house would be charged at £17. Some comments were that that pricing structure was way too low. But I am pretty sure that someone quoting £17 for houses on this estate won't get one job.

We have the occasional how much do you pay for window cleaning on our local Facebook page. If some of the prices posters said they were paying were true, then I just shake my head. I got involved once and got accused of being a rip-off-merchant. I don't get involved now.

A number of years ago, Martin Lewis, the much revered financial guru, intimated on his TV show that people shouldn't be paying any more than £5 for a window clean of a 3 bed semi. I immediately thought of some window cleaners on income support charging £5 a 3 bed semi for cash in hand beer money to the east of us. This guy is a multi-millionaire and he is advising this. From that day on, the wife watches his show, but I don't.

I can't stand Martin Lewis. I'm all for saving money and getting good deals, but not at any cost. All Martin encourages people to do is look for the cheapest way of doing everything. Some things it's good to look for the best deal, in other ways I don't believe it pays to look for the cheapest, and tradesman is one of those areas. I do believe he's responsible for creating a very poor customer mindset, look for the cheapest and complain about everything.

 

[PC]

I agree with some of the comments above regarding starting off from scratch. Really really difficult these days. When I started (a very long time ago) all you had to lay out for was a ladder and some trad gear and a crappy car to get you about. So minimal expenses. These days it’s a few grand before you even start.
The only way you can get off to a flyer imo is to buy a well established round. These customers will be solid and reliable. From this base you can then build it up.
Just do all the basics right. Turn up on time, do a good job, be friendly and look the part. And earn their trust.
Once you are running like this then people will pay a bit more for the service.
To get the perfect round takes years and as has been said above it is hard work. But once that solid work is there you never lose it. Even if someone comes in with a cheaper quote they won’t jump ship to save a few pounds. You will of course always get the odd one.
I’m always getting people leafleting areas I do but I don’t worry about it anymore.

 

[Chris Ashurst]

Unfortunately, this can be the effect of supply and demand.

New window cleaners do charge lower prices to help to get a round started. When they have built their round, they then drop those low paid jobs. Their old customer then looks for a new window cleaner, thinking he shouldn't pay any more than the previous guy charged. I've been told that if I could match the price the previous window cleaner charged, he would give me the job.
I've seen a couple become shocked when I quote my price. I now make a note of where all the local defibrillators are situated in case I need one. Our local job centre was encouraging jobseekers to become window cleaners at one time, charge rock bottom prices for bungalows and take the jobs from existing window cleaners as they could afford to lose the jobs as they had plenty of work. I lost a couple due to this.

It can also be the result of new window cleaners, having worked for an employer on minimum wage, figuring out that he can earn £20 cleaning 3 houses an hour which is twice what he was earning when employed.

In our area, it's also what potential customers believe they should pay for a window clean. I don't know where their perceived window cleaning price comes from, but it's there.

Most of the houses on our estate are 1960's 3 bed semis.
One example was that a window cleaner was charging £12 for his clean. He put the price up to £15 and the customer immediately cancelled. As far as he was concerned, £12 was the absolute limit. I know that this window cleaner has a new van he is paying off, so, as his expenses are high, he needs a higher price. I totally get that. But the customer isn't interested in the window cleaner's financial expenses.
According to a price per window quote formula put on here recently, that house would be charged at £17. Some comments were that that pricing structure was way too low. But I am pretty sure that someone quoting £17 for houses on this estate won't get one job.

We have the occasional how much do you pay for window cleaning on our local Facebook page. If some of the prices posters said they were paying were true, then I just shake my head. I got involved once and got accused of being a rip-off-merchant. I don't get involved now.

A number of years ago, Martin Lewis, the much revered financial guru, intimated on his TV show that people shouldn't be paying any more than £5 for a window clean of a 3 bed semi. I immediately thought of some window cleaners on income support charging £5 a 3 bed semi for cash in hand beer money to the east of us. This guy is a multi-millionaire and he is advising this. From that day on, the wife watches his show, but I don't.

You're definitely correct with what you say regarding anyone coming from minimum wage jobs being happy with £20 an hour. Or even a young lad still at home with little outgoings.
There's one cul-de-sac I do that was previously done by a retired firefighter in his 50's who was happy with a few quid, tea & biscuits and a bit of a natter. You can imagine the shock when I went in with quotes of £15 for the 3 bed semis and £20 for the two 4 bed detached
Like you say a lot of potential customer's already have a price in their head for window cleaning which is often 70% short
You can explain to them until your blue in the face about the process of having to purify the water and that you clean all windows, frames, sills and doors.
One window cleaner fairly local to myself has been going for many years, and his father had the round before him. Has thousands of customers and has recently put his prices up to £8 for a 3 bed semi. But for elderly customer's who have been with him many years it's still a fiver. He does one house I know of with 29 windows for £18!
Up until few months ago he was cash only but he's just got a card reader. Doesn't do BACS. Still enjoys going round collecting payments.
He has a couple of lads working for him who are both sent on their way with the biggest home made trolley systems you've ever seen with what must be at least 80L of water
His rusty van is over 20yrs old and all the trolleys his lads use are rusty and obviously home made. Despite these low prices he's done very well for himself over the year's. Big detached house and a nice collection of classic cars.
A mate of mine has a very good job as a Hydrolics Engineer earning over 80k. Lives in a nice 3 bed semi in a really nice area and like everyone else in his street has always paid £5 for his windows cleaned.
When I told him I try and get £15 for similar house he can't even get his head around it.
He just says it's always been just a fiver under the plant pot
Interestingly he was quite happy to pay Ben's Gutters £120 for his gutters cleared

 

[Iron Giant]

One window cleaner fairly local to myself has been going for many years, and his father had the round before him. Has thousands of customers and has recently put his prices up to £8 for a 3 bed semi. But for elderly customer's who have been with him many years it's still a fiver. He does one house I know of with 29 windows for £18!
Up until few months ago he was cash only but he's just got a card reader. Doesn't do BACS. Still enjoys going round collecting payments.
He has a couple of lads working for him who are both sent on their way with the biggest home made trolley systems you've ever seen with what must be at least 80L of water
His rusty van is over 20yrs old and all the trolleys his lads use are rusty and obviously home made. Despite these low prices he's done very well for himself over the year's. Big detached house and a nice collection of classic cars

Cash Only!! says it all the vast majority were cash in hand and didn't declare a lot of income.

 

[spruce]

Cash Only!! says it all the vast majority were cash in hand and didn't declare a lot of income.

Tbh, we don't actual know this.

 

[Iron Giant]

Tbh, we don't actual know this.

In this case we don't, but the something just doesn't add up rock bottom prices, a nice house and a collection of classic cars, the other option is his dad invested money into the stock market over decades and made a fortune and his son inherited everything.

where I grew up it was the norm for people to be on the fiddle one way or another I know one business owner who amounted a serious amount of cash enough to buy a house with cash, his brother was the same and another big window cleaner was well known for not declaring all his earnings but no one batted an eyelid,

The above is still probably going on just as it was years ago which is why in some industries like ours people are charging rock-bottom prices but have lots of compact work and are smashing the work out fast to yield enough income within a working day and in some cases also pay staff cash in hand.

 

[Part Timer]

The above is still probably going on just as it was years ago which is why in some industries like ours people are charging rock-bottom prices but have lots of compact work and are smashing the work out fast to yield enough income within a working day and in some cases also pay staff cash in hand.

There is a company that does a lot near me, one of his lads, he had 5 at the last count, said they were on 16 hour contracts and got cash for the rest.
With the new NI rules starting I wonder what happens now.

 

[spruce]

In this case we don't, but the something just doesn't add up rock bottom prices, a nice house and a collection of classic cars, the other option is his dad invested money into the stock market over decades and made a fortune and his son inherited everything.

where I grew up it was the norm for people to be on the fiddle one way or another I know one business owner who amounted a serious amount of cash enough to buy a house with cash, his brother was the same and another big window cleaner was well known for not declaring all his earnings but no one batted an eyelid,

The above is still probably going on just as it was years ago which is why in some industries like ours people are charging rock-bottom prices but have lots of compact work and are smashing the work out fast to yield enough income within a working day and in some cases also pay staff cash in hand.

All the company needs is a disgruntled employee spilling the proverbial beans to the tax man.
Ever since I have lived in this country, the government has been on about business transactions not being declared for tax purposes - the cash in hand culture.

Only time will tell about how effective the new government initiative of having access to our banks accounts will be to root out these tax avoidance schemes.