Pure expectations

[spruce]

40psi is rather boarder line for an HF5 membrane according to Gardiners website specs when they sold membranes.

I would have thought that you should be getting a better performance than you are at 90% efficiency with 40psi though. At 40 psi my HF5 membrane delivers about 95%. As @ks789 says, try to play around with the waste valve and see if you can get better than you are. You need to let the r/o settle each time you make an adjustment. You might have to wait up to 5 minutes before you see a change.

The other issue is that if you have a low flow at the tap, then opening the waste valve more may impact on the pressure on the membrane and reduce its performance even more.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I am running a double DI. My TDS fluctuates so much I can go from 125 to 350 in a matter of hours so if I were to leave the RO filling and go off cleaning I could come back to a spoiled tank.
Personally I only work with 0. When the TDS goes to 1 I give the vessel a shake, when it goes back to 1 I change it


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Would you recommend 25 litre vessels or the smaller ones? It seems to me that folk begin with the small ones and end up buying the 25l ones.

 

[P4dstar]

Would you recommend 25 litre vessels or the smaller ones? It seems to me that folk begin with the small ones and end up buying the 25l ones.

Dunno mate, I've only ever had 11 litre ones. They're decent enough. I think some of the lads who have been given the piddly 1lite ones upgrade fast enough

 

[Suhrly]

I would stick todays response from PF with the rest of the things i've heard about them. The only positives comments I have ever heard are about the trolleys.

Really? What bad things have you heard about PF?

 

[Diamond geezer]

It has been known before that during resin shortages, Pure Freedom have sold low grade resin.

They sold me Toulson resin.        I was only 24hrs away you know.

 

[Diamond geezer]

I think we need @spruce for this one, he will be able to set the record straight! What I can tell you is I got 4PPM today from a 125 input at just 30PSI.My garage is not a factory! I would stick todays response from PF with the rest of the things i've heard about them. The only positives comments I have ever heard are about the trolleys.

I would look into a booster pump. Make do with what you have at least until you have one of them but when it comes time to replace the membrane I would ring Doug at Daqua.

How did u manage to get a 125 input ?

 

[Diamond geezer]

40psi is rather boarder line for an HF5 membrane according to Gardiners website specs when they sold membranes.

I would have thought that you should be getting a better performance than you are at 90% efficiency with 40psi though. At 40 psi my HF5 membrane delivers about 95%. As @ks789 says, try to play around with the waste valve and see if you can get better than you are. You need to let the r/o settle each time you make an adjustment. You might have to wait up to 5 minutes before you see a change.

The other issue is that if you have a low flow at the tap, then opening the waste valve more may impact on the pressure on the membrane and reduce its performance even more.

Interesting,had along chat with P/Freedom this morning as u no, "12years ago valve could be set anywhere,now in run position/hard clockwise,its 60/40 default set"If ive got every thing correct.They said I belive,12yrs ago u can set valve to deliver more pure but shorten life of membrain, whats going on please, don't quite understand yet.Dont no about membrain,but my brain certainly feels like its being shortened!1

 

[P4dstar]

Really? What bad things have you heard about PF?

I bought resin from them, turned up really damp in comparison to what I purchase from Gardiners. Didn't last anywhere near as long. I won't be ordering again from them. Then I looked it up and there are quite a few people complaining they are relabelling resin as higher grade than it actually is. Also this isn't the first time I've seen a complaint about their RO membranes. The ''help'' that they have provided this chap is nothing short of poor. You would be hard pressed to find comments like this about Doug at Daqua. My RO was giving a better output and he was still trying to help me improve it. I understand their trolleys, although expensive, are very well rated. When it comes to RO systems you spend a lot of money and they need to be able to back that up with some support.

How did u manage to get a 125 input ?

I dunno mate, @Part Timer suggested perhaps I am drawing from different reservoirs which is why it fluctuates so much.

 

[spruce]

Interesting,had along chat with P/Freedom this morning as u no, "12years ago valve could be set anywhere,now in run position/hard clockwise,its 60/40 default set"If ive got every thing correct.They said I belive,12yrs ago u can set valve to deliver more pure but shorten life of membrain, whats going on please, don't quite understand yet.Dont no about membrain,but my brain certainly feels like its being shortened!1

I didn't know your setup was from PureFreedom. (We have a number of PF setups locally and the service they get from PF has never been an issue with anyone. But we heard about the relabeled Tulsion resin saga. Apparently it was black in colour and an 'equivalent' from America. If you ordered Tulsion they supplied you with the substitute resin labelled Tulsion I believe.)

The waste valve they sell is an ordinary 1/2"gate valve available at any plumbing store.

Here's an example

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-BSP-Gate-Valve-With-Red-Handle-Female-x-Female/121483348496?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D9e1c9b981f294dfeb807653f21f841f2%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D121483348496&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

To get that 60/40 ratio they drill a hole through the paddle of the valve, so when you completely close the valve some water still 'escapes' through the hole they drilled.

I don't know what size hole they drill tbh.

I have done the same thing with the valve I have but the hole I drilled though the paddle is smaller than the hole PF drill as I can regulate my valve to reduce that ratio to around 20 waste to 80 pure.(It was over 6 years ago I assembled my 4040.) However, I have found that for us our best ratio is 50/50 as this affords best pure output with lowest water consumption. If I close the waste a slight bit more toward the 40 waste 60 pure then my tds of my pure starts to climb. ( With a 40/60 waste to pure my r/o will not be working as efficiently as it would on a 50/50 ratio but reducing overall water consumption, increased resin consumption and reduced membrane longevity could be offset with lower water costs. Its called 'economies of scale'.)  If I go the other way to say 60 waste to 40 pure the pure tds stays the same but my water consumption goes up and so do my water costs if I'm on a water meter.

My first test would be to confirm that the waste to pure ratio is 60/40. Its simply done by filling to 25 liter containers side by side. With a lower water pressure you really need to have a slightly better control over this ratio.

How many liters of pure do you get a minute?

However, this still doesn't detract from your low water pressure. Your gauge is recording this pressure, but is the pressure higher elsewhere in the house? If you have a long hose from your tap then you could have issues with lower water pressure at the r/o. The other thing is how the outside tap is plumbed into your water supply. There are DIY kits that supply a clamp valve that puncture a small hole in the pipe. These aren't suitable for feeding a 4040 as they restrict the mount of water going to the tap.

How did you store your membrane before you assembled it? Membranes come is a sealed packet soaked in a preservative. If the membrane dries out (damaged or opened package) then the membrane is basically unserviceable.

Your poor membrane performance is either water pressure or membrane related. I'm not beening judgemental here, but PF would recommend an HF4 at 40psi water pressure. They did with me. So I wonder if you did get an HF5 membrane. (Honest picking errors can happen.) Other than that its time to consider a booster pump. 

 

[Part Timer]

I personally wouldn't buy any resins or filters from PF. I do however think their van systems are good and advice to resolve issues very good. They've talked me through a few and my nearly 8 year old system is still working fine. 

 

[P4dstar]

I personally wouldn't buy any resins or filters from PF. I do however think their van systems are good and advice to resolve issues very good. They've talked me through a few and my nearly 8 year old system is still working fine. 

Never heard of any van issues but I’m sure I saw a post where they told someone else it was normal for their system to only produce 350 litres of pure in nearly 24 hours... don’t think it was a 4040 though. I’m starting to wonder if I’ve remembered it wrong and I’m actually thinking about the window cleaning warehouse ?

 

[Part Timer]

Never heard of any van issues but I’m sure I saw a post where they told someone else it was normal for their system to only produce 350 litres of pure in nearly 24 hours... don’t think it was a 4040 though. I’m starting to wonder if I’ve remembered it wrong and I’m actually thinking about the window cleaning warehouse ?

I have very low water pressure, struggling to get 30psi, so have a booster pump. On a good day it produces circa 300 litres an hour, even bad days it does 250.

 

[Suhrly]

Never heard of any van issues but I’m sure I saw a post where they told someone else it was normal for their system to only produce 350 litres of pure in nearly 24 hours... don’t think it was a 4040 though. I’m starting to wonder if I’ve remembered it wrong and I’m actually thinking about the window cleaning warehouse ?

Maybe you have mate cos I have a Pure Freedom system and with dealing with them personally, they have always been there for me for aftercare support and any questions I've had they have helped me so I can't say a bad word about them thus far. Obviously that's my experience with them at this point so other people might think differently.

 

[doug atkinson]

I noticed some weeks back on Pure Freedom website on their advert for Axeon HF5 membrane this on the bottom "Please note, we have a varying stock of different brands of membrane. The one you receive may vary from the photo. "

So you may or may not get an Axeon membrane. That may be the problem

 

[Diamond geezer]

MMMMmmmmm Pure freadom told me "price of resin has gone up because of SERIOUS health&saftey isues in China." and that they only sell Toulson now their cheeper resin is no longer available (at the moment at least).I was expecting pucker suff ive never bought resin before,stuff I had, came with system.The bags not open yet what do you think I should do?

Thanks for all that info on where the valve should be,its given me certainly, something to think about.

 

[THL4KEL]

So that's who bought the 50 bags of 25kg resin on eBay that were listed a few months back from China 

 

[P4dstar]

MMMMmmmmm Pure freadom told me "price of resin has gone up because of SERIOUS health&saftey isues in China." and that they only sell Toulson now their cheeper resin is no longer available (at the moment at least).I was expecting pucker suff ive never bought resin before,stuff I had, came with system.The bags not open yet what do you think I should do?

Thanks for all that info on where the valve should be,its given me certainly, something to think about.

If you already have it just use it mate. I used my bag, like I say it didn't last as long as the stuff I previously bought from Gardiners. I've recently bought from Daqua, quick delivery and thus far its lasting well.

I didn't know your setup was from PureFreedom. (We have a number of PF setups locally and the service they get from PF has never been an issue with anyone. But we heard about the relabeled Tulsion resin saga. Apparently it was black in colour and an 'equivalent' from America. If you ordered Tulsion they supplied you with the substitute resin labelled Tulsion I believe.)

@spruce I didn't even know black resin existed. If they just sent out lower grade resin that was the same colour as normal resin they would more than likely have got away with it.

 

[doug atkinson]

So that's who bought the 50 bags of 25kg resin on eBay that were listed a few months back from China 

If it was the listing I saw it was Softening Resin not Mixed Bed 

 

[dmw]

Purefreedom supplied me with resin which was basically a black sludge and they gave me the runaround and wouldn't refund me and I'm not the only one.
Would never use these charlatans again.

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[Jango]

I have bought from pure freedom, and they were very good. The problem is once you start selling low quality resin, etc, you suddenly lose your good reputation. Then people go elsewhere. That’s the price you pay. It takes a lot longer to gain back your customers.