Running an electric van

[Extremecleansussex]

To go to Exeter and back is 220 miles according to manufacturers figures it has a range of 214 miles combined , so in real world driving up all the hills we have doubt it would 150 miles , I have a number of customers that have electric cars several have Tesla s that cost over 100 k and the range is appalling although they are very rapid , charging points are non existent   I know of 4 in our area and 3 of theses haven’t worked for well over a year , one is in a pub car park and you have to use the pub to be able to charge the car and it costs £10 per hours charge , the other is in my local Tesco car park again you have to go shopping to use it again what’s the point putting it on charge for 15-30 muinits whilst shopping, the amount of charge is minimal in that time . Again there is only one charging point in a car park that regularly has at least 200+ cars in it in the summer there is at least double that number , Ime not against theses cars but just saying they arnt suitable for distance travel , ok if you want to just go shopping a couple of miles down the road , but traveling a few hundred miles totally impractical, therecwill need to be hundreds of millions spent on infrastructure to make this work , then how will we produce more electric to charge all there vehicles ?. It’s all Ill thought out . 

No chargers in or west of Exeter!






 

It’s not my place to argue why you could go electric if you want to. But if you do want to change over then you may find it’s doable. Every one runs their business differently and I can only say that I wanted to make it work for me, made a few minor changes and, five years on, would never willingly go back to ICE. 

 

[dazmond]

An electric van would suit me as I do very little mileage(around 3000 miles a year)but there are 2 problems for me....payload on these Van's are usually ****.... I need at least 900-1000kg payload and i use a diesel heater for heating water....

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Just gonna add a few details in here. Just from what I’ve read/heard:

Increased Electrical Use: They say the increase use of electricity is being offset by the decrease use in domestic homes due to all the work being done to insulate them better. Also, even if short term it means we need to reply on fossil fuels to run the power stations, that is something that can be dealt with overtime. But once a car is built with a ICE engine it can’t then be switched to electric. So better get electric cars out while they sort out the power stations.

Public Chargers: A lot of these chargers found at supermarkets, public car parks etc are rapid chargers. They can often take a car up to 50% or more in 30 minutes. Ideal if your on a journey and just stopping for a break or just popping to the shops. 

Range: Most electric cars now have a range that will last the average driver a week of normal use. So that means one street charger can possibly provide power for multiple households as not everyone will need to use it every night. Of course there are logistical issues with this, humans are humans after all, but from a technical perspective it would work. 

Used Batteries: Batteries are expected to retain at least 80% of their capacity during the normal life of the car. Then, they won’t be wasted, rather they will be used in applications where a battery running at 80% is fine as physical room isn’t a issue. So it may be large power banks (used to store solar or wind generated energy until needed) or in domestic homes for the same purpose, to store solar panel energy until needed. So the packs won’t go to waste, at least not initially.

My personal take away is this, we’ll be some of the last to go electric. And that’s ok. If we need to keep using diesel for another 10 years or so, so be it. But Mary the retiree who only drives to the shops & the cafe, or John the fashion designer who lives and works all in the city, don’t. They can switch to electric no bother. And already reports are showing a lot of electric cars are being used who drive long distance motorway a lot. It saves them money and they can plan charging around rest brakes anyway. And that’s better than all of us using fossil fuels. As the infrastructure grows so will those who will switch. Eventually we’ll be able to move over.
 

I’ll be sad, cause I love the sound of my car, but I also love the planet and my home more, we need to save it (yeah I know that’ll take big industry making changes, but I can’t control that). 

An electric van would suit me as I do very little mileage(around 3000 miles a year)but there are 2 problems for me....payload on these Van's are usually ****.... I need at least 900-1000kg payload and i use a diesel heater for heating water....

A ability to use the batteries to heat the water would be nice. Especially as you can then leave it plugged in overnight and use the frost prevention. 

 

[Martyn]

An electric van would suit me as I do very little mileage(around 3000 miles a year)but there are 2 problems for me....payload on these Van's are usually ****.... I need at least 900-1000kg payload and i use a diesel heater for heating water....

You could fit a fuel tank just for the heater but payload is an issue if you need a lot of water or a two man van.

 

[ched999uk]

I think this is a very interesting discussion. 

If you look at how quick technology advances it's amazing.

Electric vehicles have 2 main issues, range and payload.

Range can be resolved by having more chargers, maybe even 'wireless' chargers similar to some mobile phones. So you just park in a space and charging starts. Maybe one day this could even be done at say traffic lights for a megga quick top up.

Power to charge all the electric cars plus heat everyones homes once gas boilers are no longer used will be a big issue. UK have been trying to build 2 or 3 new nuclear reactors for about 10 years and none are anywhere near ready. There is a great site that shows the UK's power generation and useage that can be seen live here:  http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ It suggests that from 9am to 8pm we are using 95% of our capacity - including buying from France and Belgium! Overnight that drops to more like 55% of capacity so in theory we do have significant 'spare' capacity to charge electric vehicles overnight! That is the problem, overnight is fine but during the day when people might want to extend range we haven't got much spare capacity.

So we need to build more power stations - hopefully Rolls Royce Power systems will come good with mini reactors (they have history building our submarines reactors for a good few years). 

As for payload, I think Ford have started using a loop hole to somehow enable people to drive vehicles that are over 3.5ton on a 'standard' UK licence and also enables them to be used commercially without an operators licence. So they are making vehicles with similar payload to a 3.5ton van but with battery power not taking any of the pay load.

I do wonder if somehow vehicle batteries will also start having a 'power takeoff' to power things like gutter vacs, pressure washers etc? It could be that in future our vans become the powerbank to power all we need plus give us decent range...... Only time will tell but it's interesting times ahead.

If they were cheaper to buy I would definitely buy an electric van. OK so for an odd occasion like visiting family I might have to hire a more suitable vehicle but 99% of time 100 mile range would suit me fine. Not that keen on family anyway ? 

 

[Pmac]

Extreme clean thanks for the info the van looks mint, did you have any worries about having the batteries on the underneath of the van and the tank being above, what method did you choose to go for on the inside ie, fibreglass, line x. Also with the grant of 20% off was that just on the newer vehicles? 

 

[Extremecleansussex]

Extreme clean thanks for the info the van looks mint, did you have any worries about having the batteries on the underneath of the van and the tank being above, what method did you choose to go for on the inside ie, fibreglass, line x. Also with the grant of 20% off was that just on the newer vehicles? 

That van was written off earlier this year when a woman ran into the back of me whilst I was parked up. I’ve now got a similar van only eight month newer. I’d taken the previous van from 4500 miles to 49,998 over the five years I owned it and had no plans to change it. My replacement van had 32,000 miles on it when I bought it and is now up to 37,000. 
 

The batteries are sealed inside a protective case which is subject to everything that the underside of any vehicle is subjected to. I’ve seen Leafs being driven through 3-4ft of water without issue so the water tank above isn’t going to be an issue. 
 

Both vans are ply lined; the floor of the first one was looking pretty much the worse for wear once I took the tank out. I’ve sealed this one with a waterproof sealant and also put 3mm aluminium checker plate on top of it, primarily to protect the wood at the rear where I lift the hose reel in and out. 
 

I didn’t get the grant because I bought it at twelve months old but the grant certainly helps on new vehicles. 
 

as an aside, I calculated that I save about £2500 pa in fuel which meant that the fuel savings alone covered the cost of the previous van over the five years I had it. I paid £10,400 plus VAT when I bought it and the insurance paid out £9,700 plus VAT when it was written off so it really has been very cheap motoring. 

 

[ched999uk]

I calculated that I save about £2500 pa in fuel

It's great to hear about your experience with the EV as manufactures will extoll the virtues of EV but real world is different.

I am a little confused by you saying you saved £2500 pa in fuel. The published figures for an 2015 nv200 1.5diesel are Urban 50mpg, Extra Urban 65mpg and Combined at 58mpg, OK so we all know these figs are not real world.

You say 10,000 miles a year (roughly)  So even at half the Urban fuel consumption 25mpg say £5 a gallon of diesel that would only cost £2000! (£6 a gallon = £2400) At say 40mpg then 10K miles would be near £1250 (£6 a gallon = £1500) . I am not even going to go into the recharge costs.

So how do you get that you saved £2,500 pa?

I am not trying to have a go just trying to understand the costs of running an electric vehicle.

 

[Davy G]

For sure, the days of the oil burning engine being the mainstay of road transport are numbered. I've rarely been more sure of anything. It took several millions of years for fossil fuels to be laid down and we've been burning it in its various forms (gas, liquid, coal) at an incredible rate for the past two hundred years. It's not possible to replace it at anything like the rate we burn it. I don't know what fuel we will be using for general electricity generation. Might be : solar, wind, residual heat from underground, hydrogen, nuclear, or some other sources. Most likely a combination of many different types. I think oil will soon most likely mainly be used for lubrication.

Road transport will be adapted to use different means of power than oil or gas and it will happen rapidly once it gets going properly. The infrastructure will be developed to viably support it, for the user and the provider. The only question is what the power/fuel source or sources will be.

Recent history shows us that life changing technology comes in waves and once it gets established it happens quickly. Steam powered mills took over from water powered at rapid speed. Followed soon after by the railway making canal transport largely redundant. The first motorists had to buy their fuel from chemist shops for their short journeys. The first digital watches and pocket calculators in the 1970s were, to us at the time, like something from a science fiction film but were very soon followed by the PC. The first mobile phone users had to stand outside one of a network of shops that had a special capability to receive and share a signal, while holding a phone the size of a house brick.

The smartphone I'm writing this post on gives me all the information I need to plan tides, weather, locations, distances, for planning sea kayak trips. It allows me to research any subject that interests me. The evolution of the mobile phone from first being widely used by the general public to present seems no time at all.

Change is coming, guys. Good or bad. Who knows? ?

 

[Extremecleansussex]

It's great to hear about your experience with the EV as manufactures will extoll the virtues of EV but real world is different.

I am a little confused by you saying you saved £2500 pa in fuel. The published figures for an 2015 nv200 1.5diesel are Urban 50mpg, Extra Urban 65mpg and Combined at 58mpg, OK so we all know these figs are not real world.

You say 10,000 miles a year (roughly)  So even at half the Urban fuel consumption 25mpg say £5 a gallon of diesel that would only cost £2000! (£6 a gallon = £2400) At say 40mpg then 10K miles would be near £1250 (£6 a gallon = £1500) . I am not even going to go into the recharge costs.

So how do you get that you saved £2,500 pa?

I am not trying to have a go just trying to understand the costs of running an electric vehicle.

I had an 05 Renault Trafic which was doing around 20mpg with all the stop/start driving. I was spending around £60 per week. 

 

[NewGuy]

I haven't even got a full round and I'm spending around £300 per month on fuel!

I would love an electric vehicle for work but I don't  think I could cope with "range anxiety" every day!

 

[Pmac]

Been going back and forth with having one but thee worrying factor on the 24kwh batteries in the nv200 is how do they last before replacing them? I read one thread saying 8 years for some, I tried to speak to nissan if they had any statistics or testing but refused to comment which is fair enough with lilabilty but for how expensive they are, its worth looking at it from that view with new batteries possibly costing £5000

 

[ched999uk]

Been going back and forth with having one but thee worrying factor on the 24kwh batteries in the nv200 is how do they last before replacing them? I read one thread saying 8 years for some, I tried to speak to nissan if they had any statistics or testing but refused to comment which is fair enough with lilabilty but for how expensive they are, its worth looking at it from that view with new batteries possibly costing £5000

If they are same batteries as the Leaf there are companies that sell used batteries and even some youtube vids on fitting them and upgrading to 40Kwh ones!!! Swapping like for like doesn't seem too bad a job, easier than changing an engine!

 

[Extremecleansussex]

I haven't even got a full round and I'm spending around £300 per month on fuel!

I would love an electric vehicle for work but I don't  think I could cope with "range anxiety" every day!

What I did was to record the mileage I did every day for a couple of months. Most days I do between 30 and 40 miles but two days a month I do around 60. I therefore was confident that I could do my rounds without a problem although I do take my ladders off the roof for the two long rounds (not that it’s strictly necessary). 
I recently found out that there’s now a rapid charger at the school in the village where my last few cleans are so I can top up if necessary. 
 

I do almost exactly 9000 miles per year. 

 

[Nik]

Extremecleansussex 
Thanks for all the info it's been very helpful. Did you buy a lining kit to fit out the inside with ply, what did you use on the floor...Protectacoat? What size tank do you have in the van?
I plan to fit X-Line's 350 or 500 litre tank.  My Transit uses about the same amount of fuel as your Trafic did as I'm spending between £50-£70 per week, how much does your servicing on the Nissan cost, I was told service intervals are 18,000 miles.

 

[Extremecleansussex]

Extremecleansussex 
Thanks for all the info it's been very helpful. Did you buy a lining kit to fit out the inside with ply, what did you use on the floor...Protectacoat? What size tank do you have in the van?
I plan to fit X-Line's 350 or 500 litre tank.  My Transit uses about the same amount of fuel as your Trafic did as I'm spending between £50-£70 per week, how much does your servicing on the Nissan cost, I was told service intervals are 18,000 miles.

Both vans were already ply lined so I didn’t have to buy a kit or have them fitted. 
I used some spare blackjack that I had in the garage and then put a full length sheet of aluminium checker plate down over it. 
 

I out a 400 litre flat tank in the van but moved all my filters etc into the garage with a 1000 litre storage tank. In the van, I’ve just a battery, pump and controller. 
 

I don’t have the van serviced as the 24kwhr battery only had a five year warranty so it’s now out of warranty. Nissan servicing is a con as it’s just a quick visual check for which they charge a silly price. I have the van MOTD, although it’s actually exempt (pre April 2015) which is a far more thorough check for considerably less money. 

 

[Pmac]

Handy to know there are defiently big savings to be had for sure, a do think with a few years to come goverment will have more of an incentive. 

 

[Extremecleansussex]

If they are same batteries as the Leaf there are companies that sell used batteries and even some youtube vids on fitting them and upgrading to 40Kwh ones!!! Swapping like for like doesn't seem too bad a job, easier than changing an engine!

They are the same as the Leaf but with thermal management so they last longer. There are companies who offer a 40kwhr swap along with various additional packs but the standard battery will usually last longer than the life of the vehicle so worrying about battery replacement costs is less relevant than worrying about the cost of replacing the engine or gearbox on a standard vehicle. 

 

[Iron Giant]

out a 400 litre flat tank in the van but moved all my filters etc into the garage with a 1000 litre storage tank. In the van, I’ve just a battery, pump and controller.

I am guessing you don't have your tank bolted in then ? which is where an EV would fall at the first hurdle as a window cleaning van. 

 

[ched999uk]

the standard battery will usually last longer than the life of the vehicle so worrying about battery replacement costs is less relevant than worrying about the cost of replacing the engine or gearbox on a standard vehicle

Cheers. It's a bit like back in early 90's I was considering buying a Saab 900 turbo. I didn't buy one, as people kept saying 'if the turbo goes it will cost £1000 to replace'. That was before it was easy to get turbo refurbs or refurb kits etc. Now it's 'oh what happens if the battery fails' it's just the unknown that people are scared of. We generally don't like change, we are creatures of habit.

To be fair on a 5 year old vehicle I would probably do an engine or gearbox change myself and buy a used one or rebuild myself. Now we have You Tube there is so much more info out there most vehicle things can be repaired after watching a few vids as long as you have a few skills and decent tools. 

So batteries shouldn't really worry us. For me it's just the cost that puts me off. A diesel 2016 EV200 is about £8.5K vs a 2016 e-EV200 is £13K So that's £4K difference and a battery that's 4 years old. So the fuel costs I would guess would be about £1k cheaper on the electric plus a saving in road tax and servicing? So while I would save over 4 years I would worry about how good an 8 year old battery would be. Plus value of 8 year old electric van vs 8 year old diesel van - No idea on that one.

 

[dazmond]

I haven't even got a full round and I'm spending around £300 per month on fuel!

I would love an electric vehicle for work but I don't  think I could cope with "range anxiety" every day!

I put around £100-£120 a month in mine and I use a diesel heater to heat my water every day!