Start up RO system?

[Ana]

Hi all

slowly but surely I'm getting my equipment in order to start up my WFP cleaning business. Between this months pay and the next I'm intending on buying said equipment and my RO and DI system. The DI I'm fairly set on an unger system or similar, but I'm having trouble finding a good quality RO system for my start up.

A fellow WFP cleaner has suggested I get the best RO I can afford, he uses a merlin system, pumping out 1000 litres and then using his nLite he polishes his water well. 

Can anyone suggest to me a good starting off RO system? Are merlins the best way to go? 

 

[Cookie]

What's your TDS level? If it's below 100 you can probably get away without an RO to start off with (use double DI like I do).

If you're getting an RO system this should get your TDS to below 5ppm anyway. You really only need a standard DI vessel and some resin in order to polish up the water (this would be much cheaper than buying an Unger DI system).

I can't really advise on RO systems since I don't use one. I'm sure somebody will be on here soon to advise....

Good luck in your new venture ?

 

[Ana]

Hi @Cookie

my tds is 230 so I will need a RO. The cleaner I've been speaking to has only just started using a DI as he was offered if for free, he likes it and has kept up with its use, however he stated you could easily get way without even using it.

yeah i think a standard vessel is perfectly adequate for my small scale purposes. I've found a decent looking kit on eBay including one already.

sure someone will advice me on the RO situation, I'm ok for time as I won't be starting my new venture just yet.

thanks for the good wishe Cookie   

 

[Clisty1989]

Give daqua a ring, many members on here highly recommend them.

@spruceis our resident ro expert, maybe he can help

 

[Ana]

Thanks @Clisty1989 for the info, just want to get a good to great system. I'd sooner spend well on a RO than cheap on it, only to need replacing further down the line.

i currently work at this place and we sell RO system, this is one I had my eye on (staff discount too)

https://www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk/products/growmax-mega-grow-1000-1000-litres-day-reverse-osmosis-system?taxon_id=96

would this be a good investment ? 

 

[spruce]

Hi all

slowly but surely I'm getting my equipment in order to start up my WFP cleaning business. Between this months pay and the next I'm intending on buying said equipment and my RO and DI system. The DI I'm fairly set on an unger system or similar, but I'm having trouble finding a good quality RO system for my start up.

A fellow WFP cleaner has suggested I get the best RO I can afford, he uses a merlin system, pumping out 1000 litres and then using his nLite he polishes his water well. 

Can anyone suggest to me a good starting off RO system? Are merlins the best way to go? 

Hi @Ana, imho no. They will work as your fellow wfp cleaner has demonstrated, but they are not very efficient at removing minerals and dissolved solids from your water. They were designed to be under counter r/o units in American kitchens; a third tap on the kitchen sink. In this application they don't have to strip everything from the water.

A fellow window cleaner a couple of stones throw away is on his second one. Both of them remove/d around 90% of the dissolved solids in our water where both my old 450gpd and my current 4040 remove/d 98%.

That 8% at 230ppm tap water is an extra 18ppm that your resin has to polish off. Whilst that doesn't seem much, it soon adds up over the course of the life of the r/o.

Its always very difficult to recommend an r/o to someone just starting out. We originally started out with a 275gpd r/o and processed water directly into out trailer tanks overnight. It wasn't very successful tbh. If I forgot to switch on the tap before going to bed then I had no water the next day.

I purchased a used 1000 liter IBC tank and stored it in the garage. At the same time I replaced the 3 membranes to 150gpd each which increased the production rate a bit. It took around 28 hours to fill the IBC tank in summer and about 36 hours to fill it in winter when the water is much colder. We have a transfer pump and transfer water to the van's tank as required. A 450gpd is enough to keep you with enough water as a single operator using a 1000 liter IBC tank.

However, I found we could just about manage with the r/o when son joined the business although I had to 'ration' water by the end of the week. I had both vans on my driveway and would fill mine on Saturday and his on Sunday. That would give us a full IBC tank on Monday afternoon. I have an auto fill so when we draw water the r/o automatically switches on and when the tank is full it automatically switches off. I found with 2 of us that the only time the r/o stopped was on Monday. If the weather was good then the r/o ran 24 hours a day until the following Monday.

So I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 450gpd as I believe its a good starter r/o. When you get ontop of your business and you need more water, you can sell that on ebay and invest in a 4021 or my preference, a 4040.

There are many r/o's being sold cheaply by numerous suppliers. They are cheap because they are fitted with cheap chinese manufacturered membranes. I was advised years ago that the best membranes are made in the USA and are more expensive initially. Over time however, they save money.

Personally, I would only go to a recognised wfp supplier for an r/o. Doug at Daqua would be my first stop. Genuine guy with a quality product. Yes it will cost more than an Ebay supplier initially but you will get top notch service.

www.daqua.co.uk

I would also forget an Unger r/o. Changing resin is easy but they are expensive and the resin bags are expensive as well. I would use a bog standard di vessel. Yes emptying and replacing resin is a little more tedious but its not an every day job. I have a 7 liter vessel and change resin once a year. ( Our tap water tds is half of yours.)

Your most important consideration atm is customers. Having the best equipment is great, but it won't help you if you have no customers. Try and start by canvassing and cleaning windows on your day off or over weekends and keep your job going. I know its hard work doing that, especially if you have family responsibilities, but it will still give you a measure of security knowing you haven't burnt your proverbial bridges.

 

[spruce]

Thanks @Clisty1989 for the info, just want to get a good to great system. I'd sooner spend well on a RO than cheap on it, only to need replacing further down the line.

i currently work at this place and we sell RO system, this is one I had my eye on (staff discount too)

https://www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk/products/growmax-mega-grow-1000-1000-litres-day-reverse-osmosis-system?taxon_id=96

would this be a good investment ? 

Personally I believe that unit isn't big enough. Also, I would try to find out what membranes are inside the unit and where they are made.

1000 liters a day translates into 1000 liters per 24 hour day. (An r/o production day is 24 hours). Using the same formula my old 450 gpd r/o was producing 1800 liters. You would have a little to spare with a 450 gpd. The absolute minimum you could get away with is a 300gpd but I wouldn't recommend that to you. Another windie has a 300gpd and he needs a booster pump to produce enough water for his daily window cleaning needs. He also does carpet cleaning so isn't on the glass every working day. At best an r/o will produce between 25 and 33% of the manufacturers production claims in our window cleaning application. It reminds me of manufacturers fuel consumption claims for new vehicles. The average man in the street will never achieve those.

I also don't believe the r/o is efficient enough. They state that it will remove 95% of the minerals in the water. It was recommended that it was time to replace membranes in my 275gpd r/o once they drop to around 94% efficiency.

A 450gpd r/o from Daqua costs £223.00 including VAT and delivery. 

 

[Ana]

Hi @spruce

thanks for the reply, I will look into d aqua and the RO units, I'm sure there will be a filter to suit my small but hopefully ever expanding needs. It's just good to know that any questions I might have (and the will be many more I'm sure) are answered so throughly here.

so we're saying a minimum of 450 gpd is required, that is fine, ideally I will go for more than that to make sure of a higher flow rate. I don't have any problem getting the 4040 gear if required as I've allocated money first and foremost for the RO unit, everything else can come after, clean water is my primary goal.

ill forget the unger unit, read a few negative reviews on those and a standard vessel will do me just fine. Makes little odds to me if it is harder to fill? As for work, the window cleaner I've approached has offered me some work already, free of charge. He's full up so sort of doing him a favour. Plus I've got a few neighbours I can ask as well, so work wise I should have something to go at.

thankfully my over heads are low (home owner, no rent or mortgage etc) so I can take my time to an extent finding and doing work. Just want out of the 9-5 office environment and back to running my own show.  

Thanks for looking at the link, that's a no then haha, might as well ask huh.

 

[spruce]

Hi @spruce

thanks for the reply, I will look into d aqua and the RO units, I'm sure there will be a filter to suit my small but hopefully ever expanding needs. It's just good to know that any questions I might have (and the will be many more I'm sure) are answered so throughly here.

so we're saying a minimum of 450 gpd is required, that is fine, ideally I will go for more than that to make sure of a higher flow rate. I don't have any problem getting the 4040 gear if required as I've allocated money first and foremost for the RO unit, everything else can come after, clean water is my primary goal.

ill forget the unger unit, read a few negative reviews on those and a standard vessel will do me just fine. Makes little odds to me if it is harder to fill? As for work, the window cleaner I've approached has offered me some work already, free of charge. He's full up so sort of doing him a favour. Plus I've got a few neighbours I can ask as well, so work wise I should have something to go at.

thankfully my over heads are low (home owner, no rent or mortgage etc) so I can take my time to an extent finding and doing work. Just want out of the 9-5 office environment and back to running my own show.  

You will notice that we usually only have 2 prefilters on our r/o's specifically for window cleaning. I certainly need a sediment filter and a good carbon block that removes chlorine. Chlorine destroys membranes. Some of us only need a carbon block if our water is very clear, but unfortunately on Teesside, our water is full of sediment.

The problem is that an r/o also needs to work. Having a 4040 is great as mine produces about 2 lpm of pure, but as a new starter, you aren't going to be using that much water to begin with. Then of course, you might find out that you don't like window cleaning. ?

After all its not the most mentally challenging job around. My son says I'm the only one he has ever seen who can slip into a coma and still remain standing upright.

 

[Ana]

So what is your tds up there @spruce mine is 230 down in Stoke? I'll stick with a 450 or upwards for the time being, from d aqua so I know it's providence. 

I like window cleaning as I've done it for six years prior to my fall, after which I sold the round and got a office job. Although it's going to be different, this type of cleaning over trad.  

 

[Guest]

450 from daqua if you are a single user.

 

[spruce]

So what is your tds up there @spruce mine is 230 down in Stoke? I'll stick with a 450 or upwards for the time being, from d aqua so I know it's providence. 

I like window cleaning as I've done it for six years prior to my fall, after which I sold the round and got a office job. Although it's going to be different, this type of cleaning over trad.  

Ours fluctuates a fair bit depending on which dams/reserviors the water board is drawing water from. It is usually between 120 and 150 although I have seen it at 79. When we first started window cleaning it was around 250ppm.

Our water is better when they draw water from Kielder in the Scottish Boarders. I understand that the majority of our water in our village of Saltburn comes from the small reservoirs that are scattered around the edge of the North Yorkshire moors on the northern side.

The other consideration is your water pressure.

Another point. How will you manage handling a pole having had an injury from a fall in a previous 'life'? As a single operator I would say that an SLX25 would handle the majority of your requirements but its a weight when used all day.

 

[Ana]

So is my starting water quite high then @spruce ? I've seen it said elsewhere that you want as low a starting water as possible to keep your filter and Di going as long as possible.

can I check my water pressure at all?

i am fully recovered now thanks for asking, I routinely handle heat weight even in my office job. The cleaner I've talked to has given me a old pole to handle and get a feel of if you will, seems fine to me. Ultimately putting my hip and leg through some further exercise is very good for its long term recovery. 

 

[P4dstar]

Do not get an Unger DI if its the one i've seen about. Those resin bags cost a fortune compared to just buying a bag of Tulsion and filling your own vessel. 

Another vote for Daqua on the RO. I spent just over £650 on a 4040 with a HF5 membrane, cracking piece of kit and could purify much more water than I need at the moment.

 

[spruce]

So is my starting water quite high then [mention=125]spruce[/mention] ? I've seen it said elsewhere that you want as low a starting water as possible to keep your filter and Di going as long as possible.
 
can I check my water pressure at all?
 
i am fully recovered now thanks for asking, I routinely handle heat weight even in my office job. The cleaner I've talked to has given me a old pole to handle and get a feel of if you will, seems fine to me. Ultimately putting my hip and leg through some further exercise is very good for its long term recovery. 

It isn't as high as some people have in the South. Hartlepool is 20 miles from is by road  (a couple of miles across the tees bay) and their council draw water from boreholes. Last time I heard their water was 550ppm.
Water pressure is important. The very minimum is 40psi with a small r/o. I just managed with my 450gpd on that. Anything lower will need a booster pump. You can get a gauge and connector from Screwfix. When I asked our water authority what my pressure should be they hadn't a clue.

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