Still having pressure problems

[Carts69]

Out of curiosity how many miles are you driving on a weekly basis and are doing a lot of short runs?

Out of curiosity how many miles are you driving on a weekly basis and are doing a lot of short runs?

Yes, relatively short runs I suppose, no real distance as such, but the lesuire battery has good charge, I don’t think that is the issue.

 

[Iron Giant]

Potentially you could be getting by, by the skin of your teeth your battery isn't getting a full charge and you could be killing your van battery at the same time a split relay is pointless on short distances. 

 

[spruce]

We don't do much mileage so our battery gets very little from the vsr. I reckon the 115 amp leisure battery we have would be flat in 5 to 6 working days if I just relied on the alternator to recharge it. It gets bench charged every night in winter and every 2 days in summer. 

 

[matty86]

I think my battery is 120 or 110 amp hour one can't quite remember. Bit am lucky my split charge keeps me going without needing to charge the battery manually. I do only work around 4 hours a day though as that suits me and can earn enough. The battery is 6 years old still going strong. 

Why don't you charge the battery up fully and then see how you go see if the split charger helps keep it topped up? Do you run your pump on full whack?. You said your battery in the back of the van is new is your van battery (starter battery) new too? 

 

[Pjj]

Make sure your battery is fully charged and holding charge I would also re calibrate the controller 

 

[Carts69]

Ok..Thanks for all the above comments, to update this.. firstly I don’t work a full day any day of the week, I’m still building my round hence neither battery gets a pounding, I’ve tested both batteries this morning, both van & leisure batteries are at 12.8 Volts, with engine running both peak at around 14.4 Volts, the spring controller is still flashing CHG after ignition is switched off, I’ve literally stood and watched this for over an hour and it’s still flashing now, god knows how long it’s going to carry on for but surely this is a fault that needs sorting?

 

[matty86]

Ok..Thanks for all the above comments, to update this.. firstly I don’t work a full day any day of the week, I’m still building my round hence neither battery gets a pounding, I’ve tested both batteries this morning, both van & leisure batteries are at 12.8 Volts, with engine running both peak at around 14.4 Volts, the spring controller is still flashing CHG after ignition is switched off, I’ve literally stood and watched this for over an hour and it’s still flashing now, god knows how long it’s going to carry on for but surely this is a fault that needs sorting?

Is your van battery and the battery in the back of the van both recently new or brand New?

 

[Carts69]

Is your van battery and the battery in the back of the van both recently new or brand New?

The lesuire battery is newer than the van battery, but both are pretty recent and both are giving good readings

 

[matty86]

If I remember correctly it may have been changed or updated. I had the same simular issues years ago but both batteries where new the van battery and the window cleaning leisure battery. I didn't have pressure problems or anything but the Chg on the controller wouldn't go out same as you for over an hour. Ian shappered and his team in the end figured out that the controller is programmed to switch chg off when the battery is 12.6 volts if I remember. It's not charging it's just the inital turn off of the memory of the controller, it's because the van battery was new.

 

[Carts69]

Hour & half now.. still flashing GHG ?

If I remember correctly it may have been changed or updated. I had the same simular issues years ago but both batteries where new the van battery and the window cleaning leisure battery. I didn't have pressure problems or anything but the Chg on the controller wouldn't go out same as you for over an hour. Ian shappered and his team in the end fingutes that the controller is programmed to switch chg off when the battery is 12.6 volts if I remember. It's not charging it's just the inital turn off of the memory of the controller, it's because the van battery was new.

Ah.. I’m on 12.7 now.. still flashing

 

[Carts69]

If I remember correctly it may have been changed or updated. I had the same simular issues years ago but both batteries where new the van battery and the window cleaning leisure battery. I didn't have pressure problems or anything but the Chg on the controller wouldn't go out same as you for over an hour. Ian shappered and his team in the end figured out that the controller is programmed to switch chg off when the battery is 12.6 volts if I remember. It's not charging it's just the inital turn off of the memory of the controller, it's because the van battery was new.

Am I right in thinking the controller doesn’t work properly while CHG is flashing, from what I’ve noticed its a bugger to start the pump.. needs 2/3 on/offs to get it running, then whilst in use..I’m losing water pressure once I’ve stopped the flow, return to van to see 31/PS flashing

 

[Pjj]

Ok..Thanks for all the above comments, to update this.. firstly I don’t work a full day any day of the week, I’m still building my round hence neither battery gets a pounding, I’ve tested both batteries this morning, both van & leisure batteries are at 12.8 Volts, with engine running both peak at around 14.4 Volts, the spring controller is still flashing CHG after ignition is switched off, I’ve literally stood and watched this for over an hour and it’s still flashing now, god knows how long it’s going to carry on for but surely this is a fault that needs sorting?

Give ian Sheppard a ring at spring controller s he is a nice and very helpful guy , he will talk you through your problems, I have spoken to him on several occasions and always got the issues sorted 

 

[Aqua]

PS as I've said is telling you the pressure switch has activated and 31 is just the flow you have it set to. As long as its only doing this once you have switched the flow off its not a problem in itself. Basically it just means the pressure switch is kicking in before the dead end is reached. But if its doing it as you've got the water flowing then something is up there. 

First thing I would do is take the battery out and give a proper charge. Then disconnect it from charging off your van, if it all suddenly works then that's your problem. 

 

[matty86]

Hour & half now.. still flashing GHG ?

When your van battery reaches 12.6 volts chg will go off 

 

[spruce]

When your van battery reaches 12.6 volts chg will go off 

[email protected]

If chg is flashing it tells me that there is still a little bit of current passing from the starter battery to the leisure battery. We have noticed that the fuller both batteries are the longer it takes for the split charge relay to break the connection. 

My gut feeling is telling me that you have another problem. I would remove the pressure switch from the circuit and see if this rectifies the issue. We once had a pressure switch making poor contact which was confusing the varistream controller my mate has.

Hence I would be focusing on a poor connection from the controller to the pump and back.  It could also be a bad connection on the controller's motherboard. 

Please email Ian ask all him to look and respond to this thread.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

First thank you to everyone for the advice given to Martin which is much appreciated. 

Reading through the post there seems to be Three points coming up

1. Poor flow on opening the Univalve and or PS displaying

2. CHG displays for long periods after the engine is switched off

3. On first start up the pump does not run straight away with the controller being powered on/off 2 - 3 times

1. The Univalve is a great bit of kit. It does have a spring in it from memory and I am wondering if the valve is not fully reopening or is sticking. If this is the case then there is a restriction in the hose that would cause pressure to build up and this could be activating the pump pressure switch, The controller will detect that and display PS. Another possibility is and depending on flow and cal values, If both cal and flow are high EG 80 + and there is s restriction again the pump pressure switch could be activating.

Third as mentioned already a loose electrical connection would cause the controller to display PS, this could be wiring bullets/connectors or even loose spade connection on the pump.

2. As Matty has commented the charging controller is looking at battery voltages to close/open the charging relay. We use an intelligent relay that ensures current can only pass one way. To start trickle charging the voltage needs to be above 13.2 at the vehicle battery, and the leisure battery has to be a lower voltage than this. For the relay to open again and charging to stop voltage needs to fall below 12.4v at the leisure battery. As your leisure battery is new and holding 12.8 with the engine off CHG will continue to display until volts at the leisure battery fall below 12.4. As Spruce comments there is likely to be a small amount of current being drawn for the leisure battery, But as the alternator is not running the current draw will be insignificant. The two voltages are very close as both show 12.8 with the alternator off and 14.4 with it running. As the two batteries wear a little this will stop happening so nothing to worry about.

The positive here is that the VSR is working as expected and you have two very good condition batteries 

3. This one is interesting, The fact that CHG displays would not normally have ant effect on whether the pump is running, once powered up the controller should drive the pump at your set flow rate. Can I ask what is displayed on the controller when this happens ? I am assuming the control display is on as "Chg" shows does it also show the flow rate "31 add "PS" If its PS displayed then as point 1 check there are no restrictions and that the valve is fully opening it may just be sticking a little and restricting the flow

Hope this all helps

 

[Tuffers]

Welcome to the forum @Ian Sheppard ?. As you are here, can I ask a question about my Spring controller? I have a new model Citroen Dispatch van. I have a Spring controller with charging capacity i.e. a split charge relay in the controller. @spruce has told me that this controller won't charge my leisure battery while I'm driving as the van has regenerative braking. I now charge my battery every night as a precaution. Can you tell me why the braking system I have impacts on charging my battery whilst on the move please.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Welcome to the forum @Ian Sheppard ?. As you are here, can I ask a question about my Spring controller? I have a new model Citroen Dispatch van. I have a Spring controller with charging capacity i.e. a split charge relay in the controller. @spruce has told me that this controller won't charge my leisure battery while I'm driving as the van has regenerative braking. I now charge my battery every night as a precaution. Can you tell me why the braking system I have impacts on charging my battery whilst on the move please.

Hi Tuffers The V11C does work differently to some VSR  as it has a delay that prevents an immediate charger drop out as the alternator output drops during driving And where this alternator voltage drop does happen the charger does kick back in again as the alternator charge voltage then recovered
 

In terms of the V11C we did some testing late last summer using a

A V11 Charger on a Peugeot Euro 6 Van
Model: Peugeot Expert
Engine: 1.6 TDI with air con
Alternator: https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/alternator/valeo-440676_g4_a021440676.html

Information led us to believe that on Euro6 vans the voltage drops in normal driving to below 12.5V, this was not the case. The lowest voltage seen is this van was 12.9V ( this was being measured at the leisure battery)

What we did see was that the alternator dropped out (voltage and charge current dropped to zero) under heavier acceleration. Hence to save fuel when accelerating the alternator was being turned off. In effect the Euro6 operation (on this van at least) is the opposite from what we had been told. The voltage does not spike on braking but drops on acceleration with the V11C pausing charging. Then as the heavier acceleration eases and settles to normal driving speeds the alternator comes back in and the V11 continues to charge the leisure battery.

We found

1. Before Running Van
Van Battery: 12.91V
Leisure Battery: 12.31V

2. Engine Running (Stationary)
Initial values:
Van Battery: 13.31V
Leisure Battery: 13.20V
Charge current: +11A dropping to 8A after 2 minutes.

3. Engine Stopped
Van Battery: 12.76V
Leisure Battery: 12.70V

4. Driving
Van Battery: 13.3-13.4V
Lowest voltage seen: 12.9V
Open load voltage: 14.10V
Leisure Battery: 13.3-13.4V
Charge current: 7.5-8A

 

[Carts69]

First thank you to everyone for the advice given to Martin which is much appreciated. 

Reading through the post there seems to be Three points coming up

1. Poor flow on opening the Univalve and or PS displaying

2. CHG displays for long periods after the engine is switched off

3. On first start up the pump does not run straight away with the controller being powered on/off 2 - 3 times

1. The Univalve is a great bit of kit. It does have a spring in it from memory and I am wondering if the valve is not fully reopening or is sticking. If this is the case then there is a restriction in the hose that would cause pressure to build up and this could be activating the pump pressure switch, The controller will detect that and display PS. Another possibility is and depending on flow and cal values, If both cal and flow are high EG 80 + and there is s restriction again the pump pressure switch could be activating.

Third as mentioned already a loose electrical connection would cause the controller to display PS, this could be wiring bullets/connectors or even loose spade connection on the pump.

2. As Matty has commented the charging controller is looking at battery voltages to close/open the charging relay. We use an intelligent relay that ensures current can only pass one way. To start trickle charging the voltage needs to be above 13.2 at the vehicle battery, and the leisure battery has to be a lower voltage than this. For the relay to open again and charging to stop voltage needs to fall below 12.4v at the leisure battery. As your leisure battery is new and holding 12.8 with the engine off CHG will continue to display until volts at the leisure battery fall below 12.4. As Spruce comments there is likely to be a small amount of current being drawn for the leisure battery, But as the alternator is not running the current draw will be insignificant. The two voltages are very close as both show 12.8 with the alternator off and 14.4 with it running. As the two batteries wear a little this will stop happening so nothing to worry about.

The positive here is that the VSR is working as expected and you have two very good condition batteries 

3. This one is interesting, The fact that CHG displays would not normally have ant effect on whether the pump is running, once powered up the controller should drive the pump at your set flow rate. Can I ask what is displayed on the controller when this happens ? I am assuming the control display is on as "Chg" shows does it also show the flow rate "31 add "PS" If its PS displayed then as point 1 check there are no restrictions and that the valve is fully opening it may just be sticking a little and restricting the flow

Hope this all helps

Hi Ian,

Thank you for the rapid response & jumping aboard on here ?

I have read through your very detailed explanation above,

For reply on 1. I will check the univalve, I also have another pole with a uni...I’ll try that too, failing that I will go through all connections & make sure they are secure.

Regarding 2. I now understand that CHG flashing is not a problem & infact informs me that I have 2 great condition batteries.

Regarding 3. I’ll clarify.. when I reach the first job... the controller is flashing CHG, when I power it up it pulses, so I switch off & on again... it pulses again, finally it will usually start pumping on the third attempt.

But often..not always when I shut the water off with the univalve, on activating the water again nothing comes out the brush head, sometimes it will start flowing after 20/30 seconds, other times it won’t, when it won’t I return to the van to find the controller flashing 30/PS, this is followed by 2/3 on/offs to get it pumping again, I’m sure if I let the water flow all day without touching the univalve.. all would be well!

Also.. when the pump does start pumping.. the CHG flashing disappears

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Ian,

Thank you for the rapid response & jumping aboard on here ?

I have read through your very detailed explanation above,

For reply on 1. I will check the univalve, I also have another pole with a uni...I’ll try that too, failing that I will go through all connections & make sure they are secure.

Regarding 2. I now understand that CHG flashing is not a problem & infact informs me that I have 2 great condition batteries.

Regarding 3. I’ll clarify.. when I reach the first job... the controller is flashing CHG, when I power it up it pulses, so I switch off & on again... it pulses again, finally it will usually start pumping on the third attempt.

But often..not always when I shut the water off with the univalve, on activating the water again nothing comes out the brush head, sometimes it will start flowing after 20/30 seconds, other times it won’t, when it won’t I return to the van to find the controller flashing 30/PS, this is followed by 2/3 on/offs to get it pumping again, I’m sure if I let the water flow all day without touching the univalve.. all would be well!

Ok thank you for the clarification, the pump pulsing is likely to be the controller testing to see if the pump still needs to be in dead end. When flow is stopped and the controller drops the pump into DE the controller then retest the DE state every three seconds. It likely its this pulsing your seeing to start with. It may be that the valve is not fully opening initially, Turning the controller off shuts off to and load on the pump and pressure falls meaning with the controller taking the pump back out of DE.

 

[Tuffers]

Hi Ian,

Thank you for the rapid response & jumping aboard on here ?

I have read through your very detailed explanation above,

For reply on 1. I will check the univalve, I also have another pole with a uni...I’ll try that too, failing that I will go through all connections & make sure they are secure.

Regarding 2. I now understand that CHG flashing is not a problem & infact informs me that I have 2 great condition batteries.

Regarding 3. I’ll clarify.. when I reach the first job... the controller is flashing CHG, when I power it up it pulses, so I switch off & on again... it pulses again, finally it will usually start pumping on the third attempt.

But often..not always when I shut the water off with the univalve, on activating the water again nothing comes out the brush head, sometimes it will start flowing after 20/30 seconds, other times it won’t, when it won’t I return to the van to find the controller flashing 30/PS, this is followed by 2/3 on/offs to get it pumping again, I’m sure if I let the water flow all day without touching the univalve.. all would be well!

Does this problem happen all of the time? I wonder if you disconnected the univalve your problem would stop? I'm starting to think it's the univalve.

@Ian Sheppard, thanks for your reply but I haven't got a scooby what it all means ?