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Thinking of up grading to a facelift hot water system

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scottish cleaning service said:
I did a test on dirty PVC gutters to see what degreaser was the best to use. In the end they were all very similar but what made a difference was the temperature of the water I mixed it with. The higher the temperature the easier the dirt came off. If you can afford a hot system then go for it because it wont disappoint especially in the winter months. :1f609:  
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If you have hot water then I personally wouldn't use any degreaser.

 
scottish cleaning service said:
I did a test on dirty PVC gutters to see what degreaser was the best to use. In the end they were all very similar but what made a difference was the temperature of the water I mixed it with. The higher the temperature the easier the dirt came off. If you can afford a hot system then go for it because it wont disappoint especially in the winter months. :1f609:  
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Do you have a hot water unit?

County Durham Lad

 
I had fitted new PVC gutters and fascia on our lockups around our backdoor. Not very high so mate and I decided to do a test with 3 types of degreaser and different temperature of water. All mixed up and put in separate spray bottles. Reaction times where quicker if the temperature of the water was higher. A bit like making a cup of tea, hotter the water then the more flavor comes out of the bag.

 
Hot water will only make a difference to very dirty work(first cleans, salty costal windows,industrial etc)on regular well maintained glass you won't see much if any difference.

Every year the forums are littered with hot water topics in the believe that your 5k unit will keep you working

The recirculation will help stop the pump and hose freezing when driving from job to job but once the temp falls below -0 it will freeze to the glass weather it's hot or cold.

Hot water will actually freeze quicker than cold.

I actually had a demo a for hot diesel system.They came out to one of my sites and I got to test it on my own work.The product was great and a lovely piece of kit.The soft hose and slightly warm pole was nice but in my opinion it worked out as a very expensive pair of gloves for the type of work I do it made no different to speed and the ability to work in minus degrees.

 
I like the idea of hot on first cleans but how many first cleans are needed when your rounds are full to capacity as mentioned above would like hot water system but I'm never going to pay that sort of money for something that would only be a benefit from time to time. 

Also I do lots of old listed buildings with really old glass would worry me in the winter months. 

 
Den said:
I like the idea of hot on first cleans but how many first cleans are needed when your rounds are full to capacity as mentioned above would like hot water system but I'm never going to pay that sort of money for something that would only be a benefit from time to time. 

Also I do lots of old listed buildings with really old glass would worry me in the winter months. 
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We do a lot of heratage buildings for English nature , national trust, converted churches that are all leaded we use hot water on them all year round not been a problem I would say the more important thing rather than hot water is being careful with scrubbing not to damage the lead , some windows will leak more with hot water as it’s thinner than cold but the results on this type of glass are much better with hot as it helps get the dirt out of the pits in the old glass that cold doesn’t 

 
Pjj said:
We do a lot of heratage buildings for English nature , national trust, converted churches that are all leaded we use hot water on them all year round not been a problem I would say the more important thing rather than hot water is being careful with scrubbing not to damage the lead , some windows will leak more with hot water as it’s thinner than cold but the results on this type of glass are much better with hot as it helps get the dirt out of the pits in the old glass that cold doesn’t 
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That’s an interesting reading and informative. Some of the older window panes not leaded have lots of imperfections and would be worried  that the hot water would break them as obviously not like a modern double glazing unit, I have never used hot water and could easy be corrected. 

 
Den said:
That’s an interesting reading and informative. Some of the older window panes not leaded have lots of imperfections and would be worried  that the hot water would break them as obviously not like a modern double glazing unit, I have never used hot water and could easy be corrected. 
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As they are thin then more than likely, if the house is heated, the panes themselves won't be as cold as good double glazed windows so therefore less likely to crack. Also as @Pjjsaid you won't need to apply as much pressure to get the same results. Don't really know why I have posted this as you're far to tight to spend the money anyway ?

 
Just had my grippatank 9kw heater fitted to my existing waterworks setup. 

Been using it for two weeks now and I love it. 

Id far recommend grippatank over facelift and ionics in my opinion. 

8230E298-34DD-4CDC-9AB0-63505799E562.jpeg

 
I went down to Cambridge and had my hot water system fitted to my current waterworks setup two weeks ago now. My oh my...... I love it. 

If anyone is thinking about it, my advice would be go for it. 

9kw webasto heater 

frost stat (no more messing with oil radiators)

battery to battery charger 

2x 115amp batteries 

hot water hoses

pumps relocated inside the cabinet for frost protection. 

Diesel feed taken from the vans tank. 

I now just turn the pumps on, jump in the van and off I go. Piping hot water all day, totally controllable from Luke warm, to so hot you literally can’t put your hand under the jets. 

I did a Pvc clean last week for the first time

ever with no chemicals. The hot water just melted the green. 

I know it’s a topic of contention for many. Skme

feeling it’s a waste of money, and hot doesn’t clean any better than cold bla bla bla, but my experience so far has been very positive. 

Grippatank were true professionals, I couldn’t fault them. Now I’ve used hot, I don’t think I’ll never go back to cold water now. I’ve messed about with immersions and lpg heaters in the last, but this system is just another level. 

Cant recommend Grippatank enough. 

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/hydroheat-9kw-hot-water-heater

3A2B484E-BF26-42F0-9BC4-DF1B213CDC45.jpeg

BE7ECAAD-E0F5-4666-BC91-FF693D1447BF.jpeg

 
Oli said:
Very nice mate.
Am I correct in thinking this system needs a £500 service every year?
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There's nothing to service. You would just need to ensure that its not damaged by frost, the antifreeze is 'fresh' in the hot water circuit and that you run it on the right fuel. It will need servicing or repairing when it stops working. You will know it needs attention/servicing when it starts to smoke excessively on startup which is due to carbon build-up in the ignition chamber.

 
Is that the 700 litre or 525l waterworks really fancy one of them myself what van you using Jonny.

 
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scottish cleaning service said:
Does it go through much fuel and what size is the tank? many thanks
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It doesn't come with a fuel tank.

The usual practice is to 'tap' into the van's fuel tank. In doing so you will use ordinary road diesel.

In the early days many Webasto, Eberspatcher and TR users had problems with red diesel. This seems to have improved as red diesel sold on inland marinas and other farmers outlets now has to meet better standards criteria. But the situation when I last investigated this situation was the marina's on the coast are still able to sell the 'rubbish' red diesel as it is being used at sea.

I also understand that heating oil kerosene 28 is also fine but buying it in small quantaties is an issue in our part of the world.

It is perfect legal to use heating oil and declare its use as such. But you will need a dedicated tank fitted that will only supply the heater. The advantage of this is cost saving fuel wise. As a heating oil users your details are logged by the supplier for the Receiver's reference. So I would also expect a visit at some time and your van tank's fuel dipped and checked to ensure you aren't using this fuel in your van's engine.

The cleaners who run diesel heaters from their fuel tank seem to average about £5 a day or about £80.00 of diesel a month. But this would also depend on the operator and what he is asking the system to do and how often he is using it. In other words, using £10 of diesel today and nothing tomorrow averages out at £5 over 2 days.

 
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Thanks @spruce I thought cherry was just the same as diesel but with a dye through it? I meant to say tank of water it is heating but after looking over their website it mentions 400 litres. Probably the same cost of electricity to heat the tank but an easier clean so less water needed. I see it as the future especially up here where its a lot colder and would be warmly welcomed. I will be interested next year if I keep getting new customers. Thanks for the info.

 
scottish cleaning service said:
Thanks @spruce I thought cherry was just the same as diesel but with a dye through it? I meant to say tank of water it is heating but after looking over their website it mentions 400 litres. Probably the same cost of electricity to heat the tank but an easier clean so less water needed. I see it as the future especially up here where its a lot colder and would be warmly welcomed. I will be interested next year if I keep getting new customers. Thanks for the info.
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If you go onto the boating forums and see what live-a-boards have to say about their Webasto heaters. This was before red diesel was upgraded. In fact there is a report of a boater who was taking Webasto to court as he argued that they were selling a product to boaters that wasn't fit for purpose.

The complaint was that these heaters were sooting up rather quickly and were failing to start. Webasto took that same heater repaired it and ran it on white (road) diesel for the same period as the unit was running on red diesel. They opened it up and the unit was virtually carbon free inside. I don't know what happened to the court case tbh, but I think the Webasto reworded their instructions to make it more clear that the buyer took responsibility to ensure that the correct quality of fuel was used. If it wasn't then it would negate the warranty.

Doing a Google search on "webasto heaters and red diesel" brings up some interesting stories. But the situation seems to have got better since 2011 when the new regulations came into effect. But even then there was a twist with FAME being added to the better diesel.

https://www.abnb.co.uk/submenupages/red_diesel.html

Here's an updated situation with regard to the taxing of red diesel and how crazy its all got with EU legislation. It would appear that the EU wants all diesel used for propulsion charged and taxed at road diesel prices. The only red diesel sold will be for heating. So just how this will play out is anyone's guess especially when we consider Britian leaving the EU.

https://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_EU

We have a local lad who has a hot box which he uses to heat water as and when. In the early days the roof of his Transit van was black with soot that came from the roof mounted exhaust. The roof of his new van is better as his fuel supplier has changed. But the garage marina on the coast that sells fuel to the fishing boats still sells terrible stuff he tells me.

The beauty about diesel is that its a safe fuel and you heat on demand. The cons are that diesel isn't cheap and the price per liter seems to be on the rise. Using an electric element is a cheaper setup option even if you have to get an electrician to install a 16amp outlet. The downside is that you heat a full tank of water which you may plan to use that day but don't.

 
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