Two Customers Ruin My Day

[adamangler]

Interesting.

I'm looking for a double cab to replace my Peugeot partner van and my car as a one vehicle solution.

Inalos need more space and payload for an employee.

The one I'm looking at is the Renault traffic sport double cab. Just deciding whether to buy or lease it..

I considered a pickup but are a bit more to buy plus more on insurance, tax and fuel.

Also I think they are a bit small in the load area although the they carry the weight.

 

[Dave Shaw]

No kids and for 17 years my wife and I just used the one vehicle as a dual purpose motor.

She is looking to change jobs so she got a little car and I switched on to a van as no point in having a 17ft truck with 5 seats just for me.

Yes it will be big enough for 3 kids in the back. Plus a 650ltr system in the Load bed if you get a custom built system with 2 reels easily doable.

County Durham Lad

Thanks for the advice[emoji106]


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Interesting.
 
I'm looking for a double cab to replace my Peugeot partner van and my car as a one vehicle solution.
 
Inalos need more space and payload for an employee.
 
The one I'm looking at is the Renault traffic sport double cab. Just deciding whether to buy or lease it..
 
I considered a pickup but are a bit more to buy plus more on insurance, tax and fuel.
 
Also I think they are a bit small in the load area although the they carry the weight.

Your situation sounds similar to mine. I’m in no rush as of yet so I’m just gonna keep gathering info on it.


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[Iron Giant]

Interesting.
 
I'm looking for a double cab to replace my Peugeot partner van and my car as a one vehicle solution.
 
Inalos need more space and payload for an employee.
 
The one I'm looking at is the Renault traffic sport double cab. Just deciding whether to buy or lease it..
 
I considered a pickup but are a bit more to buy plus more on insurance, tax and fuel.
 
Also I think they are a bit small in the load area although the they carry the weight.

A one vehicle solution may not work for you with kids all the time, Day to day most likely no issues at all, but shopping or going on holidays you may have no space for kids buggies or luggage etc.

County Durham Lad

 

[adamangler]

A one vehicle solution may not work for you with kids all the time, Day to day most likely no issues at all, but shopping or going on holidays you may have no space for kids buggies or luggage etc.

County Durham Lad
 

To be honest I was thinking the opposite. For just nipping to town or shops we would just go in r lasses car.

The van would be ideal for day trips/holidays/going fishing, taking the bikes etc as there is bags of room in a lwb crew van. I only really do windows so there only a tank,backpack,poles and couple of reels in there 

 

[Iron Giant]

 
 
To be honest I was thinking the opposite. For just nipping to town or shops we would just go in r lasses car.
 
The van would be ideal for day trips/holidays/going fishing, taking the bikes etc as there is bags of room in a lwb crew van. I only really do windows so there only a tank,backpack,poles and couple of reels in there 

Sorry mate I was meaning a truck, but the point can still be valid whether a truck or van depending on personal circumstances.



County Durham Lad

Not another price debate. Getting boring these now[emoji42]
I’ve learnt a lot through getting into these on here recently. Way too many variables and that’s why there’s no correct answer and so many different price scales. Seems to be though that most have roughly the same or near enough the same hourly rate no matter what they are charging and that’s what really matters.


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Not a price debate as such, just I think some contributiors pull stuff out of thin air for the sake of it.

I know I can waffle on with longwinded posts at times but I try to be as fact based as possible and hopefully as helpful as I can be to other lads.

County Durham Lad

 

[Iron Giant]

Yeah I guess once you factor in travelling between the villages etc, there aren't many places around here that are built up enough to have a compact round... I'll be a little more price conscious when I head into the new estates in Gloucester I think.
 
I really can't get my head around the £1 a window thing though.... I have been working on a time factor. For the first clean I charge a little more and am happy to work for £20 an hour but on existing customers I want to be at £30 which is giving me about £25 with travel time.

I would typically never encourage anyone to go in lower to get a job, But I just thought it might worth some consideration with you needing to build a round fast.

And possibly stick a extra quid on in the outlining areas if you think you could manage to swing it with new jobs, so as to even things up. Just worth considering a broader view that you not may yet have considered. Best of luck mate is all I can say.

County Durham Lad

 

[spruce]

I would typically never encourage anyone to go in lower to get a job, But I just thought it might be worth some consideration with you needing to build a round fast.

And possibly stick a extra quid on in the outlining areas if you think you could manage to swing it with new jobs, so as to even things up. Just worth considering a broader view that you not may yet have considered. Best of luck mate is all I can say.

County Durham Lad

As per @Iron Giant. Sometimes you also need to 'rob Peter to pay Paul.' The supermarkets play this game all the time. They have a couple of specials they use to draw customers in and tweak the price on other essential items to compensate.

In the North East we find that prices are tighter in some areas more so than in others. So we priced a 3 bed semi in a 'poorer' area lower than the same house in a more affluent area. But we also found that we got paid on the day for 90% of the houses in the poorer area and those in would pay for the ones not in. We generally found that after 3 or 4 days of work, we only had a couple of collections to do on a Friday evening. We found we had to chase payments in the more affluent areas.

So often the price we quote is influenced by the area. For us for example, Loftus is a really bad area for pricing, so we stay away from there as the majority seem to be unemployed. Guisborough can attract a higher price per house, but we also have more competition.

IMHO its also all about being flexible and make the most of your situation.

 

[P4dstar]

I would typically never encourage anyone to go in lower to get a job, But I just thought it might worth some consideration with you needing to build a round fast.

And possibly stick a extra quid on in the outlining areas if you think you could manage to swing it with new jobs, so as to even things up. Just worth considering a broader view that you not may yet have considered. Best of luck mate is all I can say.

Nah I think it is worth cutting a couple of quid to get into an area but I want to price it right in the first place. I have taken the advice of all of you experienced guys and stuck to my guns on price since I started. I lost the ''my mate does it at £1 a window'' chap but I also know I undercut the other windy by £10. If that wasn't enough to seal it then its not worth having.

As per @Iron Giant. Sometimes you also need to 'rob Peter to pay Paul.' The supermarkets play this game all the time. They have a couple of specials they use to draw customers in and tweak the price on other essential items to compensate.

In the North East we find that prices are tighter in some areas more so than in others. So we priced a 3 bed semi in a 'poorer' area lower than the same house in a more affluent area. But we also found that we got paid on the day for 90% of the houses in the poorer area and those in would pay for the ones not in. We generally found that after 3 or 4 days of work, we only had a couple of collections to do on a Friday evening. We found we had to chase payments in the more affluent areas.

So often the price we quote is influenced by the area. For us for example, Loftus is a really bad area for pricing, so we stay away from there as the majority seem to be unemployed. Guisborough can attract a higher price per house, but we also have more competition.

I think its the pain barrier too... I've got one to quote tomorrow and its up a huge hill, miles from my house but in an area I have already started to pick up quite a few customers. I know its going to be a 4/5 window 2 door newish build and listening to what people are saying on here i'm gonna price it competitively because if I can pick up more in the area its a massive estate all close together and all new build UPVC frames, easy access etc.

I think I need to drop this price per window idea as no one seems to be able to explain it to me haha. I can't understand how we can say £1 a window is about right but a 3 bed semi at £15 is about right too... I passed GCSE maths you know  :1f602:

 

[spruce]

Nah I think it is worth cutting a couple of quid to get into an area but I want to price it right in the first place. I have taken the advice of all of you experienced guys and stuck to my guns on price since I started. I lost the ''my mate does it at £1 a window'' chap but I also know I undercut the other windy by £10. If that wasn't enough to seal it then its not worth having.

I think its the pain barrier too... I've got one to quote tomorrow and its up a huge hill, miles from my house but in an area I have already started to pick up quite a few customers. I know its going to be a 4/5 window 2 door newish build and listening to what people are saying on here i'm gonna price it competitively because if I can pick up more in the area its a massive estate all close together and all new build UPVC frames, easy access etc.

I think I need to drop this price per window idea as no one seems to be able to explain it to me haha. I can't understand how we can say £1 a window is about right but a 3 bed semi at £15 is about right too... I passed GCSE maths you know  :1f602:

£1 per window was bantered about many years ago. Back then a small toilet window was 75p and they also added extra for the door and for a bay window. I think it sounded good in theory but was too confusing to work in practise. But that's my opinion. It got even more confusing when the customer wanted his conversatory windows cleaned as well. Most conservatories have more glass than the house does. Saying to a customer that the house will cost £8 and the conservatory windows £12 so £20 in total would mean we wouldn't get the job. (So in our area, we try for £9 to £10 for the house and £12 to £15 for the house and conservatory. That's the going rate. Go in at £20 and we will get nothing.)

We have a new small estate in our area. 3 story 3 bed terraced houses - master bedroom in the loft, they clean the velux window at the back. I got asked to quote for 3 in a row. I went it at £8 each 4 years ago. One of the other local cleaners with a brand new van was quoting £15 for the same house. He got one customer and he lost that to someone who quoted cheaper. I admire the £15 quote because that is what the job is worth, but we haven't got the proverbial hope in hell's chance of getting a price like that.

In the early days we asked other cleaners what they were getting for a house in the area. Often we worked on the principle of;

If you get every job you quote for, you are too cheap.

If you get none of the jobs you quote for, then you are too expensive.

If you get between 40 and 60% of your quotes then you are in the right zone.

If you want to grow your round quicker, then look at getting about 70% of the quotes you do. You can always tweek it with price increases once you become established.

.

 

[P4dstar]

£1 per window was bantered about many years ago. Back then a small toilet window was 75p and they also added extra for the door and for a bay window. I think it sounded good in theory but was too confusing to work in practise. But that's my opinion. It got even more confusing when the customer wanted his conversatory windows cleaned as well. Most conservatories have more glass than the house does. Saying to a customer that the house will cost £8 and the conservatory windows £12 so £20 in total would mean we wouldn't get the job. (So in our area, we try for £9 to £10 for the house and £12 to £15 for the house and conservatory. That's the going rate. Go in at £20 and we will get nothing.)

We have a new small estate in our area. 3 story 3 bed terraced houses - master bedroom in the loft, they clean the velux window at the back. I got asked to quote for 3 in a row. I went it at £8 each 4 years ago. One of the other local cleaners with a brand new van was quoting £15 for the same house. He got one customer and he lost that to someone who quoted cheaper. I admire the £15 quote because that is what the job is worth, but we haven't got the proverbial hope in hell's chance of getting a price like that.

In the early days we asked other cleaners what they were getting for a house in the area. Often we worked on the principle of;

If you get every job you quote for, you are too cheap.

If you get none of the jobs you quote for, then you are too expensive.

If you get between 40 and 60% of your quotes then you are in the right zone.

If you want to grow your round quicker, then look at getting about 70% of the quotes you do. You can always tweek it with price increases once you become established.

Well... I've got 95% of my quotes... Or thereabouts. So I must be doing something right. Or perhaps its the 10 years experience in sales that does it haha.

As always i've picked up a lot of advice from this but I have come to the conclusion there isn't a one size fits all. I quoted a new build bungalow, 4 windows, 2 doors £8 every 4 weeks £10 every 8... The I went out into the sticks and quoted a cottage, 4 windows, 1 door and an extension with about 6 windows all close together like a conservatory (and a little skylight), £18 every other month... Feel guilty about the second one now. I haven't cleaned it yet but I was thinking about the time factor. Can't park the van near the property so it may take longer to clean. If it doesn't take as long as I anticipated I may cut that down by a couple of quid because I don't want someone coming along and undercutting me.

 

[Part Timer]

Well... I've got 95% of my quotes... Or thereabouts. So I must be doing something right. Or perhaps its the 10 years experience in sales that does it haha.

As always i've picked up a lot of advice from this but I have come to the conclusion there isn't a one size fits all. I quoted a new build bungalow, 4 windows, 2 doors £8 every 4 weeks £10 every 8... The I went out into the sticks and quoted a cottage, 4 windows, 1 door and an extension with about 6 windows all close together like a conservatory (and a little skylight), £18 every other month... Feel guilty about the second one now. I haven't cleaned it yet but I was thinking about the time factor. Can't park the van near the property so it may take longer to clean. If it doesn't take as long as I anticipated I may cut that down by a couple of quid because I don't want someone coming along and undercutting me.

Do the job before you drop the price, I've done it before when I'd done the job a few times. And before people ask why, the answer is it was way over my target rate. So if someone undercuts me I can walk away knowing that I have lost it because someone wants to work for less than I do. 

 

[P4dstar]

Do the job before you drop the price, I've done it before when I'd done the job a few times. And before people ask why, the answer is it was way over my target rate. So if someone undercuts me I can walk away knowing that I have lost it because someone wants to work for less than I do. 

Yeah thats what I mean dude... If it only takes me 45 minutes I can justify taking it down to say £15 because next time it will only take half hour (And I charge a first clean surcharge). I have them booked in so I doubt they will drop me before the first clean.

 

[Skxawng]

I really can't get my head around the £1 a window thing though.... I have been working on a time factor.

I've never got the £1 per window rate that's given as advice to newbies pretty often. What is a window? A pane? A compound window with 3 or 4 panes? A bay window with maybe 10 or 12 panes? Its not accurate enough.

I count the individual panes. Each pane of glass is 1 point. Big panes, doors, awkward ones or 3rd level are all 2 points each. Either divide the total by 4 to know how much to charge at £30ph or Divide the total by 2 and that's how many minutes roughly it'll take and apply your own hourly rate.

 

[Iron Giant]

Well... I've got 95% of my quotes... Or thereabouts. So I must be doing something right. Or perhaps its the 10 years experience in sales that does it haha.

As always i've picked up a lot of advice from this but I have come to the conclusion there isn't a one size fits all. I quoted a new build bungalow, 4 windows, 2 doors £8 every 4 weeks £10 every 8... The I went out into the sticks and quoted a cottage, 4 windows, 1 door and an extension with about 6 windows all close together like a conservatory (and a little skylight), £18 every other month... Feel guilty about the second one now. I haven't cleaned it yet but I was thinking about the time factor. Can't park the van near the property so it may take longer to clean. If it doesn't take as long as I anticipated I may cut that down by a couple of quid because I don't want someone coming along and undercutting me.

No mate don't get nervy, keep it at that price everyone wants compact work and these are the jobs you need to add a little more on to compensate for the others that you may price lower on new builds and travel time etc. 

 

[Iron Giant]

£1 a window try 50p a window in the North East or less in some cases, not mine though.  But their is a guy with add on a local fb selling page with a price of £12.00 so I assume that's his minimum as he he lives around 10 miles away and I have heard he is gaining work. 

But in my area a firm with 4 vans moved in and had quite a few houses on a newish estate they got less regular and lost work which I gained they have since turned up again and only have 2 houses on that estate that I know off .This also happened on another estate and I gained work, Also had enquires on another estate saying they hadn't being seen for 2-3 months. Their is one man bands trying their luck as well but are failing because I am guessing they aren't gaining the work to justify the travel.

Price is relative to an area with varying factors, I have gained every job I have quoted this week bar 1 who was a price shopper who contacted me about 10 months ago and his wife said I was to expensive and this time he never bothered replying when I provided a price. Who knows I may have unknowingly undercut that £12 guy but I know what a job is worth and these jobs are a 5 minute drive from my house on a growing development i have covered for over 5 years. 

 

[dmw]

If you can gain local work at good prices it doesn't get much better, most of my work is within 3 miles and I never venture beyond 5.

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[P4dstar]

If you can gain local work at good prices it doesn't get much better, most of my work is within 3 miles and I never venture beyond 5.

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

Miles between villages round here so that doesn’t always work. There is a chap in the next village to me who appears to be dropping everyone who isn’t actually in his village. Lovely idea if it works

 

[Iron Giant]

Miles between villages round here so that doesn’t always work. There is a chap in the next village to me who appears to be dropping everyone who isn’t actually in his village. Lovely idea if it works

As long as you are picking up the work he is dropping at good prices  :1f603:

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

If it only takes me 45 minutes I can justify taking it down to say £15 because next time it will only take half hour

30 minute job? That's £30 please! 

I always aim for £1 per min when 'on the glass 

 

[adamangler]

Compact is king for sure, I was targeting a 10 mile radius until this year. But since I've took on a lad it's really hit home that I need more compact work. So instead of looking for new areas im now just re marketing to existing ones.

A lost hour on driving per day is nothing when you are solo, when paying someone on the clock it's a bit different.

 

[P4dstar]

As long as you are picking up the work he is dropping at good prices  :1f603:

Yeah man. I took your advice about charging extra for an 8 week cycle too. They all seem to be just paying the extra instead of going to 4 though.