Van rain / condensation on the roof - solved.

[ched999uk]

Well last night (and the one before) was pretty damn cold here in my area. Went out to check the van late at night as there is always condensation on the roof in those temperatures.

None. Not a drop. The clingfilm over the tank was covered in water again and the van hasn't moved for days.

If the van hasn't moved their shouldn't be much condensation. Condensation forms when moisture laden air (air always has moisture in the UK) hits a surface that is below the due point. This is relative to the air temp vs the body metal work. So say you had filled up with water that was at 8 Degrees C and the outside air temp was 5 Deg C. That would increase the air temp inside the van over a period of time when the tank was cooling to ambient. That warmed air would then rise and hit the cold roof, this is where condensation forms as the moisture drops out of the air.

So if your van is cold inside and the water in the tank is at ambient temp then any condensation will be minimum. It's mainly about warmer water in your tank heating the air outside the tank (like a domestic radiator, heats the air but the water stays inside the radiator). So if you can contain all residual heat within the tank by mega insulation then that will reduce condensation. Alternatively if you can stop the moist air hitting the cold surface again by insulating the steel roof then condensation will reduce. 

Very little pure will evaporate as the temps are way too low. That said I will be interested in how you get on when you fill up and then the temp drops as it's always good to learn from peoples experiences.

 

[Pjj]

If the van hasn't moved their shouldn't be much condensation. Condensation forms when moisture laden air (air always has moisture in the UK) hits a surface that is below the due point. This is relative to the air temp vs the body metal work. So say you had filled up with water that was at 8 Degrees C and the outside air temp was 5 Deg C. That would increase the air temp inside the van over a period of time when the tank was cooling to ambient. That warmed air would then rise and hit the cold roof, this is where condensation forms as the moisture drops out of the air.

So if your van is cold inside and the water in the tank is at ambient temp then any condensation will be minimum. It's mainly about warmer water in your tank heating the air outside the tank (like a domestic radiator, heats the air but the water stays inside the radiator). So if you can contain all residual heat within the tank by mega insulation then that will reduce condensation. Alternatively if you can stop the moist air hitting the cold surface again by insulating the steel roof then condensation will reduce. 

Very little pure will evaporate as the temps are way too low. That said I will be interested in how you get on when you fill up and then the temp drops as it's always good to learn from peoples experiences.

You are wasting your breath he won’t listen and probably won’t reply to you , have you noticed he’s been quick to answer most of my posts but ask ware In the country he is and he avoids it and doesn’t answer , some people have no conception of common sense and talk utter rubbish but if cling film works for him we better just humour him and let him carry on believing in it , don’t think science is his strong point ????

 

[Tuffers]

I'm either being thick or I'm missing something here. Is OP putting cling film over his tank hole? I have a plastic bag over mine to stop the water sloshing out of the vented lid. I do have a vent pipe coming out of the tank to avoid a vacuum. I still get condensation on my van roof. I also get condensation on the inside of my windscreen when it's cold.

@spruceit was @steve garwoodwho put the swimming caps over his brushes.

 

[Part Timer]

You are wasting your breath he won’t listen and probably won’t reply to you , have you noticed he’s been quick to answer most of my posts but ask ware In the country he is and he avoids it and doesn’t answer , some people have no conception of common sense and talk utter rubbish but if cling film works for him we better just humour him and let him carry on believing in it , don’t think science is his strong point ????

A bit harsh, if he thinks it works for him then I don't understand why you should criticise him for posting it. If you disagree, which obviously you do, then either ignore the post or say you disagree. Belittling people is usually associated with the FB pages

 

[steve garwood]

I'm either being thick or I'm missing something here. Is OP putting cling film over his tank hole? I have a plastic bag over mine to stop the water sloshing out of the vented lid. I do have a vent pipe coming out of the tank to avoid a vacuum. I still get condensation on my van roof. I also get condensation on the inside of my windscreen when it's cold.

@spruceit was @steve garwoodwho put the swimming caps over his brushes.

Yes true. Most members on here called me a genius ?

A bit harsh, if he thinks it works for him then I don't understand why you should criticise him for posting it. If you disagree, which obviously you do, then either ignore the post or say you disagree. Belittling people is usually associated with the FB pages

Thought it was a bit strong myself 

 

[Pjj]

I'm either being thick or I'm missing something here. Is OP putting cling film over his tank hole? I have a plastic bag over mine to stop the water sloshing out of the vented lid. I do have a vent pipe coming out of the tank to avoid a vacuum. I still get condensation on my van roof. I also get condensation on the inside of my windscreen when it's cold.

@spruceit was @steve garwoodwho put the swimming caps over his brushes.

No you are right in what you are thinking that’s exactly what he’s saying 

 

[Pjj]

A bit harsh, if he thinks it works for him then I don't understand why you should criticise him for posting it. If you disagree, which obviously you do, then either ignore the post or say you disagree. Belittling people is usually associated with the FB pages

What I put wasn’t meant to belittle anyone but simple science will prove who is right or wrong in this case as has been pointed out by at least two other  posters , if someone continues to argue against scientific fact then they need to go away and do a bit of research for themselves as they make themselves look very foolish , but the op continues to argue against these things , again he’s entitled to his opinion as I stated , if what I have said comes over as harsh then I apologise as that wasn’t how I meant it to come over , I was just frustrated that he seams unable to grasp basic facts . 

 

[Part Timer]

What I put wasn’t meant to belittle anyone but simple science will prove who is right or wrong in this case as has been pointed out by at least two other  posters , if someone continues to argue against scientific fact then they need to go away and do a bit of research for themselves as they make themselves look very foolish , but the op continues to argue against these things , again he’s entitled to his opinion as I stated , if what I have said comes over as harsh then I apologise as that wasn’t how I meant it to come over , I was just frustrated that he seams unable to grasp basic facts . 

By saying just humour him is belittling, it is up to everyone on here to either follow his advice or ignore it. You have alot of followers and with that, in my opinion, you have extra responsibilities. Some might try his idea, most probably won't but we have far whackier posts that don't attract the same criticism.

 

[Pjj]

By saying just humour him is belittling, it is up to everyone on here to either follow his advice or ignore it. You have alot of followers and with that, in my opinion, you have extra responsibilities. Some might try his idea, most probably won't but we have far whackier posts that don't attract the same criticism.

It wasn’t said to belittle anyone , but after trying to reason with him and he simply wouldn’t have any of it and that’s his choice so let him think what he wants is why I said just humour him , it wasn’t  derogatory just a simple statement meaning there is no point in trying to explain it to him further , if that is offensive then so be it . 

 

[Tuffers]

You are wasting your breath he won’t listen and probably won’t reply to you , have you noticed he’s been quick to answer most of my posts but ask ware In the country he is and he avoids it and doesn’t answer , some people have no conception of common sense and talk utter rubbish but if cling film works for him we better just humour him and let him carry on believing in it , don’t think science is his strong point ????

Spelling and punctuation isn't your strong point but no one points it out and then follows it up with loads of ? do they. This is what I think Part Timer is getting at. 

 

[Part Timer]

It wasn’t said to belittle anyone , but after trying to reason with him and he simply wouldn’t have any of it and that’s his choice so let him think what he wants is why I said just humour him , it wasn’t  derogatory just a simple statement meaning there is no point in trying to explain it to him further , if that is offensive then so be it . 

I have reread all the posts, the only thing he didn't reply to was what area are you from, he's in London. He asked you if you'd tried it and you didn't reply either. I don't believe it would work but without trying I wouldn't say anything. 

There's lots of wacky ideas on here, 99.99% won't help anyone but, by all means question it, if you haven't tried it don't knock the poster because someone might actually finds it helps, or thinks it does.

Time to go back on the beer as I'm working away.

 

[Pjj]

Spelling and punctuation isn't your strong point but no one points it out and then follows it up with loads of ? do they. This is what I think Part Timer is getting at. 

Yes I know exactly what he’s saying , and I will repeat what I have already said no offence was meant by what I said if it came over that way then I apologise. 

 

[Pjj]

I have reread all the posts, the only thing he didn't reply to was what area are you from, he's in London. He asked you if you'd tried it and you didn't reply either. I don't believe it would work but without trying I wouldn't say anything. 

There's lots of wacky ideas on here, 99.99% won't help anyone but, by all means question it, if you haven't tried it don't knock the poster because someone might actually finds it helps, or thinks it does.

Time to go back on the beer as I'm working away.

No I haven’t tried it but from a basic understanding of science and evaporation know it won’t work, I have had vans with water tanks in for the best part of 20 years , since having hot water we never get any condensation in the vans sounds daft but it’s a fact , but it’s ventilation that’s the key to preventing it  , I think it was @ched999ukthat gave a good explanation in simple English of how this wouldn’t work . I don’t need to put my hand in the fire to know it will get burnt , and it’s the  same hear . As you say ones think it will help , the word placebo comes to mind . Anyway I have had enough of this tiresome subject , ones are free to do what they want , I have said my piece and that it . Again no offence was meant . 

 

[steve garwood]

No I haven’t tried it but from a basic understanding of science and evaporation know it won’t work, I have had vans with water tanks in for the best part of 20 years , since having hot water we never get any condensation in the vans sounds daft but it’s a fact , but it’s ventilation that’s the key to preventing it  , I think it was @ched999ukthat gave a good explanation in simple English of how this wouldn’t work . I don’t need to put my hand in the fire to know it will get burnt , and it’s the  same hear . As you say ones think it will help , the word placebo comes to mind . Anyway I have had enough of this tiresome subject , ones are free to do what they want , I have said my piece and that it . Again no offence was meant . 

You have hot water? ?

 

[Pjj]

You have hot water? ?

No but it sounds good ?

 

[Tango]

Wow.. all kicked off since i was last here. Who'd think that providing childcare was acceptable these days?  

What part of the country are you in ?? 

I'm not really entirely sure that matters does it? But as you asked, I'm in the south east.

If the van hasn't moved their shouldn't be much condensation. Condensation forms when moisture laden air (air always has moisture in the UK) hits a surface that is below the due point. This is relative to the air temp vs the body metal work. So say you had filled up with water that was at 8 Degrees C and the outside air temp was 5 Deg C. That would increase the air temp inside the van over a period of time when the tank was cooling to ambient. That warmed air would then rise and hit the cold roof, this is where condensation forms as the moisture drops out of the air.

So if your van is cold inside and the water in the tank is at ambient temp then any condensation will be minimum. It's mainly about warmer water in your tank heating the air outside the tank (like a domestic radiator, heats the air but the water stays inside the radiator). So if you can contain all residual heat within the tank by mega insulation then that will reduce condensation. Alternatively if you can stop the moist air hitting the cold surface again by insulating the steel roof then condensation will reduce. 

Very little pure will evaporate as the temps are way too low. That said I will be interested in how you get on when you fill up and then the temp drops as it's always good to learn from peoples experiences.

I've got to be completely honest and say I don't understand it all as clearly as you certainly do but since i've started covering my tanks hole with clingfilm and then screwing the lid down over it, my van roof no longer rains on me.

It's been nearly two weeks since i posted this topic but longer than that since i first trialled it and i've had no rain for weeks. I can't explain how it works as in-depth as you could but it seems to work for me.

I never completely fill the tank but usually go to 3/4 full. No probs so far. You say very little pure will evaporate as the temperature is way too low, so why does the leaky footwell in my car result in a windscreen covered in water in these temperatures? There is a common theme here whether anyone wants to admit it or not, water rising upwards. 

You are wasting your breath he won’t listen and probably won’t reply to you , have you noticed he’s been quick to answer most of my posts but ask ware In the country he is and he avoids it and doesn’t answer , some people have no conception of common sense and talk utter rubbish but if cling film works for him we better just humour him and let him carry on believing in it , don’t think science is his strong point ????

I read what he said and I did reply. I may well have answered your posts quicker if i was online at the time but I am not always online and even if I am, I don't sit here on windowcleaningforums hitting refresh just in case you have posted something for me to reply to.

If you read above, i have answered you - I am in the south east. So sorry I couldn't answer you earlier, I've been looking after a young child - if that's acceptable?

As for talking utter rubbish, well you've not seen how bad my van was getting. I've taken the lid off, put clingfilm over it and screwed the lid back on tight so the rubber seat compresses the clingfilm against the plastic. For me, this works well.

Further, at night, the clingfilm rises up into the shape of the black lid - a dome shape and is covered in water - irrespective of the vehicle moving, tank being full, half empty etc. Like i said to @ched999ukI can't explain that as clearly as he could but it seems to work for me.

Finally, yes i've had a **** life. I was bullied out of school at 13 and literally don't have a single GCSE to my name - thanks to people like you. Go ahead, mock me, you're just a window cleaner too, the difference between me and you is i'm not afraid to try something controversial and make it public. You're stuck in your comfort zone.

I got into three public sector organisations, passed their aptitude tests, clearly didn't talk rubbish, proved myself to be logical and landed the jobs over many other candidates. I'm now working part time in another large organisation which is all over the country who are also very hard to get into. I passed their aptitude and psychometric testing too. Admittedly i'm completely stumbling on getting into the railways but their testing is well known for being bloody hard to crack for the average joe yet alone someone like me - who learnt his english grammer from Microsoft Word 97.

No I haven’t tried it but from a basic understanding of science and evaporation know it won’t work, I have had vans with water tanks in for the best part of 20 years , since having hot water we never get any condensation in the vans sounds daft but it’s a fact , but it’s ventilation that’s the key to preventing it  , I think it was @ched999ukthat gave a good explanation in simple English of how this wouldn’t work . I don’t need to put my hand in the fire to know it will get burnt , and it’s the  same hear . As you say ones think it will help , the word placebo comes to mind . Anyway I have had enough of this tiresome subject , ones are free to do what they want , I have said my piece and that it . Again no offence was meant . 

I'm talking rubbish and I have no common sense yet you can't even try it yourself? because "you know". Do you? Do you know how daft you sound stating that?

You know it won't work.. but you've not tried it.. I have and I have found my results to be promising. Where once there was rain every day in my van, now there is none. You ridicule me for the sake of what? - Do you realise that many people / inventions have been ridiculed in history, including Thomas Edisons lightbulb. I'm not claiming to change the world with a sheet of clingfilm but your statement that you know it won't work (even though you've not tried it and I have) is uncalled for.

I'm not dismissing your hot water / heated van thing either before you think it - on the contrary, unlike you I find that quite an acceptable idea and can see the logic to it.

Ched himself said that not much pure would evaporate. But it's an accumulative effect - day after day after day. It doesn't just decide to hang on the roof and then go back to sleep in the tank does it. No, it stays in the van and continues to build up with each day as more evaporates from the tank.. or am i talking rubbish again? Next thing you know i'll even think that a sink or bath can fill up if you leave the plug in the hole, turn the tap on and let the water build up over time. I must be mad.

I'm either being thick or I'm missing something here. Is OP putting cling film over his tank hole? I have a plastic bag over mine to stop the water sloshing out of the vented lid. I do have a vent pipe coming out of the tank to avoid a vacuum. I still get condensation on my van roof.

I don't put the film over the hole (I did last year though with an upside down celebrations tub over it). I take off the black lid, place the film over the round hole, then screw the lid back on over it so that the rubber seal applies pressure to the film to keep it tight against the plastic. This seems to be important in the evening but not in the day.

During the day I just poke my finger through the lids hole to make a hole in the clingfilm so there is no vacuum. I have another way of stopping spillages which is also very simple but i don't dare mention it or i'll be slagged off yet again.

 

[ched999uk]

As I said earlier keep us posted as to how you find the cling film working for you long term. 

While I may know lots of techy and theoretical stuff sometimes in practice we see different things happen to what we thought would happen!

I worked for a good few years testing gas turbine, jet engines and afterburners. The main reason for all the testing was to validate mathematical modelling i.e. they predicted what would happen then tested it in a controlled environment and tweaked the model to more accurately reflect rear world. 

So I am very open to having my knowledge tweaked with practical real world experience!

I hope I didn't post anything that offended as that is never my intention. I love to learn new stuff and to hear about peoples experience.

Have a great Christmas.

 

[Pjj]

Wow.. all kicked off since i was last here. Who'd think that providing childcare was acceptable these days?  

I'm not really entirely sure that matters does it? But as you asked, I'm in the south east.

I've got to be completely honest and say I don't understand it all as clearly as you certainly do but since i've started covering my tanks hole with clingfilm and then screwing the lid down over it, my van roof no longer rains on me.

It's been nearly two weeks since i posted this topic but longer than that since i first trialled it and i've had no rain for weeks. I can't explain how it works as in-depth as you could but it seems to work for me.

I never completely fill the tank but usually go to 3/4 full. No probs so far. You say very little pure will evaporate as the temperature is way too low, so why does the leaky footwell in my car result in a windscreen covered in water in these temperatures? There is a common theme here whether anyone wants to admit it or not, water rising upwards. 

I read what he said and I did reply. I may well have answered your posts quicker if i was online at the time but I am not always online and even if I am, I don't sit here on windowcleaningforums hitting refresh just in case you have posted something for me to reply to.

If you read above, i have answered you - I am in the south east. So sorry I couldn't answer you earlier, I've been looking after a young child - if that's acceptable?

As for talking utter rubbish, well you've not seen how bad my van was getting. I've taken the lid off, put clingfilm over it and screwed the lid back on tight so the rubber seat compresses the clingfilm against the plastic. For me, this works well.

Further, at night, the clingfilm rises up into the shape of the black lid - a dome shape and is covered in water - irrespective of the vehicle moving, tank being full, half empty etc. Like i said to @ched999ukI can't explain that as clearly as he could but it seems to work for me.

Finally, yes i've had a **** life. I was bullied out of school at 13 and literally don't have a single GCSE to my name - thanks to people like you. Go ahead, mock me, you're just a window cleaner too, the difference between me and you is i'm not afraid to try something controversial and make it public. You're stuck in your comfort zone.

I got into three public sector organisations, passed their aptitude tests, clearly didn't talk rubbish, proved myself to be logical and landed the jobs over many other candidates. I'm now working part time in another large organisation which is all over the country who are also very hard to get into. I passed their aptitude and psychometric testing too. Admittedly i'm completely stumbling on getting into the railways but their testing is well known for being bloody hard to crack for the average joe yet alone someone like me - who learnt his english grammer from Microsoft Word 97.

I'm talking rubbish and I have no common sense yet you can't even try it yourself? because "you know". Do you? Do you know how daft you sound stating that?

You know it won't work.. but you've not tried it.. I have and I have found my results to be promising. Where once there was rain every day in my van, now there is none. You ridicule me for the sake of what? - Do you realise that many people / inventions have been ridiculed in history, including Thomas Edisons lightbulb. I'm not claiming to change the world with a sheet of clingfilm but your statement that you know it won't work (even though you've not tried it and I have) is uncalled for.

I'm not dismissing your hot water / heated van thing either before you think it - on the contrary, unlike you I find that quite an acceptable idea and can see the logic to it.

Ched himself said that not much pure would evaporate. But it's an accumulative effect - day after day after day. It doesn't just decide to hang on the roof and then go back to sleep in the tank does it. No, it stays in the van and continues to build up with each day as more evaporates from the tank.. or am i talking rubbish again? Next thing you know i'll even think that a sink or bath can fill up if you leave the plug in the hole, turn the tap on and let the water build up over time. I must be mad.

I don't put the film over the hole (I did last year though with an upside down celebrations tub over it). I take off the black lid, place the film over the round hole, then screw the lid back on over it so that the rubber seal applies pressure to the film to keep it tight against the plastic. This seems to be important in the evening but not in the day.

During the day I just poke my finger through the lids hole to make a hole in the clingfilm so there is no vacuum. I have another way of stopping spillages which is also very simple but i don't dare mention it or i'll be slagged off yet again.

Well that’s some reply ?? I will however only bother replying to a few points .

i don't  need to try something to know it won’t work as an example I don’t need to put my hand in the fire to know it will get burnt , nor do I need to jump off a cliff to understand how gravity works and that I will face plant the sand below . Evaporation and condensation and temperature are complex  issue and I cannot be bothered to write an essay explaining it all but the information is out there to read if you want to look it up .

I have not bullied you at all you have always portrayed yourself as a victim on this forum and CIU , i don’t  have any problems discussing and listening to others views as we call all learn new things regardless of age or experience from each other , but when someone tries to say that something that is scientifically proven is wrong then I will stick to my guns . Again if I have offended you with what I have said Ime sorry that was never my intention, but do feel maybe you have taken to heart a throw away comment that was said with no malice . 

Like you I have chosen to be a window cleaner not done it beacause I cannot do anything else , I am also a watch manager in the fire service so am very used to dealing with difficult and complex situations, but what we chose to do for a living shouldn’t define who we are as people and just beacause we choose to clean windows  doesn’t mean we are sum club wielding Neanderthal . 

I am sorry that you had a bad time at school and hope that things have improved for  you during adult life theses experiences can scar ones permanently , I am well aware of that . I am also glad that you have found a solution to your problem of rain in your van and wish you well for the future . 

 

[steve garwood]

Merry Christmas everyone! ?

 

[RWCleaning]

? Tis the season to be jolly ?

 

[ched999uk]

After coming up for 12 months how has your cling film worked @Tango ?
Now I have a van I have condensation issues although one reason is I have a leak from my hose reel but that should be sorted when I fit my new reel.

It's always good to hear how practical solutions are working irrespective of if they make sense to me. Sometimes stuff just works despite what people may think and theorise about.