Water Marks Leaded Light Window

[Dabber]

Did a first clean on this house, no problems. Did a second clean and got called back so went over it again and still these water marks are visible. Any ideas ?

 

[Cleanco]

unger rub out and plenty of elbow grease should sort it out. Charge well for it though as it may take a while. It would’ve been better for you if you could’ve pointed it out on the first clean though as they could suspect that you’ve caused it and may want it included in with your regular clean price.

 

[Dabber]

unger rub out and plenty of elbow grease should sort it out. Charge well for it though as it may take a while. It would’ve been better for you if you could’ve pointed it out on the first clean though as they could suspect that you’ve caused it and may want it included in with your regular clean price.

 

[Dabber]

Everything was fine on the initial clean so didn’t expect any issues going forward. He’s going back to cleaning them himself now so no bad feelings but I just wanted to understand what’s happened with the marks/ stains.

 

[clearview]

Looks like someone’s been outside with a pressure washer or hose pipe as that looks like limescale spots to me.

 

[Scrubsy]

Hard water stains. Hosepipes, pressure washing, hanging baskets all cause it.

 

[Chris34]

It's the lead on the window, it's supposed to have a coating on the lead but on some leaded windows the coating has been removed exposing the lead, when you clean with the purified water it absorbs the minerals in the lead and the water is no longer clean, it's contaminated and therefor dries as if you have just cleaned them with tap water, actually it's worse than tap water...

You can use bar keepers cream to remove it, I've never used unger rub out but you can try it. But moving forward this window will do this every time you try and clean it. I've got one on ground level, just two windows and I clean them normally but dry them immediately after using kitchen roll, if I don't dry it thoroughly and carefully then they look terrible.

If I had a whole house like that then I'd just tell them it's not possible and explain the reason why.

 

[Pjj]

It's the lead on the window, it's supposed to have a coating on the lead but on some leaded windows the coating has been removed exposing the lead, when you clean with the purified water it absorbs the minerals in the lead and the water is no longer clean, it's contaminated and therefor dries as if you have just cleaned them with tap water, actually it's worse than tap water...

You can use bar keepers cream to remove it, I've never used unger rub out but you can try it. But moving forward this window will do this every time you try and clean it. I've got one on ground level, just two windows and I clean them normally but dry them immediately after using kitchen roll, if I don't dry it thoroughly and carefully then they look terrible.

If I had a whole house like that then I'd just tell them it's not possible and explain the reason why.

We clean loads of leaded windows with some really poor lead on them and never had a single issue with any mineral deposits on the glass . But here’s the strange thing we have many conservatories that have lead flashing going onto the glass roof and the mineral deposits on the roof are horrendous, but it’s not sports it’s dark long lines that you can feel raised on the surface of the glass

 

[Chris34]

We clean loads of leaded windows with some really poor lead on them and never had a single issue with any mineral deposits on the glass . But here’s the strange thing we have many conservatories that have lead flashing going onto the glass roof and the mineral deposits on the roof are horrendous, but it’s not sports it’s dark long lines that you can feel raised on the surface of the glass

I think it is down to the manufacturer, it's a common problem around my way, they are damaged and cause the above results, when I say common it's probably 1 window out of 20 leaded window houses.

I think it's probably down to the manufacturer but I also wonder whether it's harsh chemicals that have been used on them in the past which has removed the coating, The strange thing is one window might cause issues but the rest can be fine even though they were installed at the same time by the same manufacturer.

I had a new customer last year that had bi-fold doors, 5 big panes of glass with a balcony above. They were filthy on the first clean and took ages to clean. The next clean they seemed a lot better, they were scratched but cleaning wise they looked pretty much spot on. The third clean (I think it was), half an hour after leaving the customer contacted me and sent me photo's, he wasn't happy, really bad spotting and they looked really bad. I went back to try and find out what had caused it. They were black pvc and I noticed at the top just where they meet the brickwork there was a thin line of rusty corrosion. Straight away I suspected that was the problem, exposed metal of the lintel contaminating the water and dripping down on the glass.

It took me forever to remove the marks, think I spent about an hour and chucked everything at it, I could only reduce it but told the customer what I thought the issue was and he then painted the exposed metal, once that was done then the marks disappeared quite quickly over the next few cleans and now they look perfect every time. I don't touch water on the bit that he painted and because of the balcony it's pretty much sheltered from rain etc.

It's definitely helpful to have these problems because you learn a lot. If I hadn't have had that problem with the leaded window then I would have struggled to diagnose the problem with the black bi-folds.

I've never seen lead build up on glass but can definitely imagine it. It must just be dodgy builders / manufacturers operating in certain areas at some point in the past and causing all these problems that only affect certain areas of the country. Like the leaded windows that cause me problems are all very similar, the lead probably comes from the same supplier...

 

[Cleanco]

Everything was fine on the initial clean so didn’t expect any issues going forward. He’s going back to cleaning them himself now so no bad feelings but I just wanted to understand what’s happened with the marks/ stains.

Probs for the best then pal as it’ll be a pain to remove if it’s a re occurring problem or as others have said him trying to clean them himself has more than likely caused it. I’ve had one similar recently and even though I did explain that the window units where pretty much all water stained on the property upon completion of the first clean due to leaking gutters and her husband cleaning them with the jet wash she still questioned it on the next visit and I think she thought that by having them cleaned it would get better over time. When I explained that they would need restoring and gave her my price and also explained that the root of the problems need sorted first at more cost or it would just come back she spat her dummy out and decided to go back to her husband doing them Some seem to think we are miracle workers and are just not worth the hassle.

 

[Cleanco]

I think it is down to the manufacturer, it's a common problem around my way, they are damaged and cause the above results, when I say common it's probably 1 window out of 20 leaded window houses.

I think it's probably down to the manufacturer but I also wonder whether it's harsh chemicals that have been used on them in the past which has removed the coating, The strange thing is one window might cause issues but the rest can be fine even though they were installed at the same time by the same manufacturer.

I had a new customer last year that had bi-fold doors, 5 big panes of glass with a balcony above. They were filthy on the first clean and took ages to clean. The next clean they seemed a lot better, they were scratched but cleaning wise they looked pretty much spot on. The third clean (I think it was), half an hour after leaving the customer contacted me and sent me photo's, he wasn't happy, really bad spotting and they looked really bad. I went back to try and find out what had caused it. They were black pvc and I noticed at the top just where they meet the brickwork there was a thin line of rusty corrosion. Straight away I suspected that was the problem, exposed metal of the lintel contaminating the water and dripping down on the glass.

It took me forever to remove the marks, think I spent about an hour and chucked everything at it, I could only reduce it but told the customer what I thought the issue was and he then painted the exposed metal, once that was done then the marks disappeared quite quickly over the next few cleans and now they look perfect every time. I don't touch water on the bit that he painted and because of the balcony it's pretty much sheltered from rain etc.

It's definitely helpful to have these problems because you learn a lot. If I hadn't have had that problem with the leaded window then I would have struggled to diagnose the problem with the black bi-folds.

I've never seen lead build up on glass but can definitely imagine it. It must just be dodgy builders / manufacturers operating in certain areas at some point in the past and causing all these problems that only affect certain areas of the country. Like the leaded windows that cause me problems are all very similar, the lead probably comes from the same supplier...

Lead build up on glass is more common on atriums and conservatory roofs where lead flashing has been used to seal the tops as when it rains its runs down off the lead and onto the glass. It’s not as common on regular windows as you don’t get as much rain running down then but I have seen it on some of my older property’s.

 

[Dabber]

Thanks for all the replies. Always good to hear the experiences of others which helps to explain what was going on here. The customer is a lovely chap so it will be helpful for me to explain the reasons why WFP doesn’t always work.

 

[Chris34]

Thanks for all the replies. Always good to hear the experiences of others which helps to explain what was going on here. The customer is a lovely chap so it will be helpful for me to explain the reasons why WFP doesn’t always work.

Just make sure you state that it's their windows that are faulty, it's not the WFP system as such. Reason being is they will go around telling everyone they've had WFP cleaners and the WFP system is **** ... We need to educate them otherwise it gives our method a bad name when it's not actually our fault (their windows shouldn't be like that).

 

[Septimus Meek]

Just make sure you state that it's their windows that are faulty, it's not the WFP system as such. Reason being is they will go around telling everyone they've had WFP cleaners and the WFP system is **** ... We need to educate them otherwise it gives our method a bad name when it's not actually our fault (their windows shouldn't be like that).

I'm not criticising wfp but the problem is a combination of the windows themselves and the method used to clean them. It wouldn't have happened if they were cleaned trad.

 

[Part Timer]

I'm not criticising wfp but the problem is a combination of the windows themselves and the method used to clean them. It wouldn't have happened if they were cleaned trad.

And I bet you'd love to do them traditionally, loads of small panes and loads of detailing

 

[Septimus Meek]

And I bet you'd love to do them traditionally, loads of small panes and loads of detailing

 

[Septimus Meek]

The modern ones aren't a problem tbh as the lead sits almost flush to the glass. It's just a case of a few straight pulls with the squeegee using a lot of pressure and the water comes of cleanly around the lead. The older ones where the lead sits proud of the glass are a nightmare and would get better results done by wfp.

 

[Part Timer]

The modern ones aren't a problem tbh as the lead sits almost flush to the glass. It's just a case of a few straight pulls with the squeegee using a lot of pressure and the water comes of cleanly around the lead. The older ones where the lead sits proud of the glass are a nightmare and would get better results done by wfp.

There's an estate up here where we do most of the houses that get done using WFP and one company, traditional, that does most of the rest. He always tells anyone with the small leaded panes to ring us as they're a nightmare for him

 

[Septimus Meek]

There's an estate up here where we do most of the houses that get done using WFP and one company, traditional, that does most of the rest. He always tells anyone with the small leaded panes to ring us as they're a nightmare for him

I've got three customers with the older style ones where the lead sits proud of the glass which as I say are a nightmare trad. I've told all of them they'd get better results wfp in the hope they'd change but they haven't. Trouble is I've been doing them all 30 years plus and haven't got the heart to drop them.