What do we think?

[ched999uk]

Energy price increase Can someone explain why Electricity prices are also creeping up. Who is benefitting from all these wind farms

I wish they were creeping up!! I have seen slower rockets!!

Basically they are blaming it on post Covid demand rising and the war in Ukraine as Russia supplied about 50% of Europe's gas! They want to stop buying Russian gas so they have to buy from alternative sources! There isn't enough alternative sources in the world at short notice so demand exceeds supply therefore prices go up!
Gas is used to produce about 40% of UK electricity!
As for renewables (wind and solar) they are sold on same market as any other electricity so they will sell it for best price they can get!!!

If only the UK could only be more self sufficient!!!! Maybe we should have built some nuclear power stations a few years ago!!

If you are really nerdy and want to know more have a look here: G. B. National Grid status and Drax Electric Insights
Have fun ?

 

[johnny bravo]

Thumbs up to you

 

[spruce]

... and Russia is exporting its natural gas to the Middle East who are in turn loading it onto ships to bring it here. So in effect, Britain is still buying natural gas from Russia, but is buying it through a third party at much higher prices. It's called sanctions busting, a term we were very familiar with in the Rhodesian UDI days, using South Africa as the purchasing house.

 

[Chris34]

I've been thinking about these energy cost whilst working today. They say the average bill is going to be around £4,000 per year (about £80 per week) by October and will go higher again next January.

Well that £4,000 is spread out over a year, so people just look at the monthly cost. However when you think about it, say for me and I'm sure many other people do the same, I turn mine off completely in about May and don't turn it back on again until October. So the majority of that £4,000 that they say it's going to cost annually, well the majority of that is between November to March. So the actual monthly cost in the winter is actually going to be about £600 per month for the average household.

Now if it's going to cost £600 per month then it makes sense to buy solar panels with battery storage, because the savings by the end of winter will pay for a big chunk of the upfront costs of it.

I rent and haven't got the money to pay for all that stuff anyway, but I am thinking of asking the landlord if there is a way to install them and maybe meet halfway with some sort of agreement.

 

[ched999uk]

I've been thinking about these energy cost whilst working today. They say the average bill is going to be around £4,000 per year (about £80 per week) by October and will go higher again next January.

Well that £4,000 is spread out over a year, so people just look at the monthly cost. However when you think about it, say for me and I'm sure many other people do the same, I turn mine off completely in about May and don't turn it back on again until October. So the majority of that £4,000 that they say it's going to cost annually, well the majority of that is between November to March. So the actual monthly cost in the winter is actually going to be about £600 per month for the average household.

Now if it's going to cost £600 per month then it makes sense to buy solar panels with battery storage, because the savings by the end of winter will pay for a big chunk of the upfront costs of it.

I rent and haven't got the money to pay for all that stuff anyway, but I am thinking of asking the landlord if there is a way to install them and maybe meet halfway with some sort of agreement.

First thing to look at is insulation. Look at the EPC rating and see if your property has loft, cavity, and floor insulation etc. There are grants under the ECO 4 scheme where you can, with landlords permission, get insulation measures installed for FREE if you are on many types of benefits!! If the rental property has a very low EPC then you can advise the landlord that from 2025 to rent a property out the EPC needs to be a C!!! If it's below that you might be able to persuade them to start improving the energy efficiency before the rules come in as it will probably be cheaper to do it now than in 18 months time!

As for Solar the payback period will be much shorter - I have been looking very seriously recently and say a 4KW system is about £5K installed and should save something like 50% off your electricity bills. So if you have gas and electric and the 'average' bill is going to £4K then that's on average about 60% elec 40% gas. So 60% of 4K is £2400, so saving 50% of that is about £1200 so payback is just over 4 years!

The dilemma is how long are the energy prices going to be £4K - I can't see how many households can sustain £4k energy payments for multiple years! So maybe something will happen to reduce the price thus increasing the payback time!

Then comes the addition of a battery for solar, while that might reduce your electricity bill by maybe 80% (total with solar) you are looking at about £5K for that 30% extra, saving £720 a year - so a payback period of about 7 years and batteries generally only have a 10 year guarantee. So the battery is a higher risk investment. The other twist is that having batteries installed at same time as solar means vat on batteries is Zero. If you add them at a later date then you have to pay the 20% vat on the batteries!!!

Obviously if you heat your home with electricity then the calcs are all wrong but solar produces most energy in the summer and very very little when you really need the power to heat your home.

 

[Pjj]

First thing to look at is insulation. Look at the EPC rating and see if your property has loft, cavity, and floor insulation etc. There are grants under the ECO 4 scheme where you can, with landlords permission, get insulation measures installed for FREE if you are on many types of benefits!! If the rental property has a very low EPC then you can advise the landlord that from 2025 to rent a property out the EPC needs to be a C!!! If it's below that you might be able to persuade them to start improving the energy efficiency before the rules come in as it will probably be cheaper to do it now than in 18 months time!

As for Solar the payback period will be much shorter - I have been looking very seriously recently and say a 4KW system is about £5K installed and should save something like 50% off your electricity bills. So if you have gas and electric and the 'average' bill is going to £4K then that's on average about 60% elec 40% gas. So 60% of 4K is £2400, so saving 50% of that is about £1200 so payback is just over 4 years!

The dilemma is how long are the energy prices going to be £4K - I can't see how many households can sustain £4k energy payments for multiple years! So maybe something will happen to reduce the price thus increasing the payback time!

Then comes the addition of a battery for solar, while that might reduce your electricity bill by maybe 80% (total with solar) you are looking at about £5K for that 30% extra, saving £720 a year - so a payback period of about 7 years and batteries generally only have a 10 year guarantee. So the battery is a higher risk investment. The other twist is that having batteries installed at same time as solar means vat on batteries is Zero. If you add them at a later date then you have to pay the 20% vat on the batteries!!!

Obviously if you heat your home with electricity then the calcs are all wrong but solar produces most energy in the summer and very very little when you really need the power to heat your home.

This is one of the best posts I have read on this subject very informative I totally agree with what you are saying , it’s difficult to know what to do . My electric bill is £50 per week now and we aren’t using much at all , still not sure what the increase in gas will be .

 

[Chris34]

First thing to look at is insulation. Look at the EPC rating and see if your property has loft, cavity, and floor insulation etc. There are grants under the ECO 4 scheme where you can, with landlords permission, get insulation measures installed for FREE if you are on many types of benefits!! If the rental property has a very low EPC then you can advise the landlord that from 2025 to rent a property out the EPC needs to be a C!!! If it's below that you might be able to persuade them to start improving the energy efficiency before the rules come in as it will probably be cheaper to do it now than in 18 months time!

As for Solar the payback period will be much shorter - I have been looking very seriously recently and say a 4KW system is about £5K installed and should save something like 50% off your electricity bills. So if you have gas and electric and the 'average' bill is going to £4K then that's on average about 60% elec 40% gas. So 60% of 4K is £2400, so saving 50% of that is about £1200 so payback is just over 4 years!

The dilemma is how long are the energy prices going to be £4K - I can't see how many households can sustain £4k energy payments for multiple years! So maybe something will happen to reduce the price thus increasing the payback time!

Then comes the addition of a battery for solar, while that might reduce your electricity bill by maybe 80% (total with solar) you are looking at about £5K for that 30% extra, saving £720 a year - so a payback period of about 7 years and batteries generally only have a 10 year guarantee. So the battery is a higher risk investment. The other twist is that having batteries installed at same time as solar means vat on batteries is Zero. If you add them at a later date then you have to pay the 20% vat on the batteries!!!

Obviously if you heat your home with electricity then the calcs are all wrong but solar produces most energy in the summer and very very little when you really need the power to heat your home.

That's great info there cheers.

For me the solar dream has always been a desire of mine, I like the fact that it's free and pure clean energy.

Two things I expect will happen though. The first is that energy will get subsidised my the government at source, so all this handouts here and there won't happen in the future, I expect that the government will just subsidise the actual cost. If this happens then those who have invested in solar are going to be left feeling cheated, as they have splashed the cash only for everyone else to get cheap dirty energy without spending any extra cash. Secondly, I can't remember my second point.

One thing I've thought though, especially for yourself Ched as you probably own your property by the sounds of it so it's a more straight forward choice. You say it's £4k to have a £4k system installed. Well I'd be looking at how much it costs to borrow £4k and then pay it back over 'x' amount of years. So say it costs £350 per month to pay for energy, well if a £4k loan over 4 years cost £100 per month and then you had the said solar system installed, well your total cost of the loan and the reduced dirty energy usage would be around £250 per month, so you would save £100 per month, then after 4 years you would have paid for the loan and your energy bill would still be 60% cheaper ongoing. So without spending a penny you would save £100 per month by just getting a loan. That's how I would be looking into it.

 

[ched999uk]

This is one of the best posts I have read on this subject very informative I totally agree with what you are saying , it’s difficult to know what to do . My electric bill is £50 per week now and we aren’t using much at all , still not sure what the increase in gas will be .

In the last month we have been going round the house looking at what is actually plugged in and on 'standby'. In 'the office' I had PC, monitors, amp, tv, freeview, freesat, laptop, aerial booster, etc all on standby that are only actually used when I'm in the office. So they all went on a smart plug, only gets switched on when needed. That has dropped the base load of electricity by quite a bit!!! Most things that are plugged and switched on at wall will use a little electricity so switching stuff off - things like microwave (clock always on) is now switched off unless it's needed. Just trying to be practical not overly obsessed can lower your usage which is a great way to start saving.
Some of this was prompted by us finally getting a smart meter - avoiding anyone coming in house for last couple of years due to covid risk. It's now quite easy to see daily consumption without getting a spreadsheet out and taking daily meter readings .
I am still weighing up the cost of a few smart plugs vs the standby savings ?

It is difficult to know what to about solar, as @Chris34 said even with the cost of a loan to install solar IF prices stay high then it almost seems too good to be true!

I have a few friends that have solar and batteries that they installed (we all did electronics engineering apprenticeships together about 30+ years ago) they seem to be cutting their bills quite well but they don't get paid for anything that goes back to grid but their install costs were a lot less than having a certified install.

Another alternative calc I did was effectively using what used to be called Economy 7 electricity to overnight charge a battery at a low price to then use it during the day - no solar just using an Octopus go tariff! Currently you can have 00:30 to 4:40 at something like 7.8p per Kw. The calcs came out that IF electricity was 50p per Kw then payback (£5.5K battery, inverter, etc - no solar) would be something like 3.5 years which isn't too bad, batteries only guaranteed for 10 years so not too bad.

It's all so complex, expensive and a gamble it's so difficult to know what to do.....

We are concentrating of getting our daily costs down as a starting point.

 

[johnny bravo]

This is one of the best posts I have read on this subject very informative I totally agree with what you are saying , it’s difficult to know what to do . My electric bill is £50 per week now and we aren’t using much at all , still not sure what the increase in gas will be .

£50 a week lecy im using around £3 a day so £21 a week and crying at that ,. £50 is a lot a week

 

[Pjj]

£50 a week lecy im using around £3 a day so £21 a week and crying at that ,. £50 is a lot a week

Yes I know , and that’s hardly using anything!!!!!

 

[ched999uk]

£50 a week lecy im using around £3 a day so £21 a week and crying at that ,. £50 is a lot a week

I just checked and we are using about £14 of electricity a week so £2 a day but we are still on a fixed tariff of 18p per Kw so about 11Kw a day. If it goes to 50p/Kw then that's more like £5.50 a day!
That said we use the gas combi to heat water so that's a bit extra but with temps so high and quick showers it's not a lot at all in Gas - Winter will be very different for gas but we should have cavity wall insulation and room in roof insulated within next couple of weeks, just waiting for dates.

I'm also considering replacing the radiator trv with 'smart ones' so we can shut down rads in rooms we only use at certain parts of the day i.e. why heat bedroom all day to about 17degC, it just needs to be warm when we get up and a bit before bedtime.

 

[Jonseddo]

Although it's good to know what others charge and how others work it's best to focus on your own business and your own pricing. If you're getting work and keeping customers then that's all that counts, keep increasing your prices and as long as the work keeps coming in then just keep doing what you are doing.

There was a window cleaner in my local area, traditional, charged £6 per house and nice bloke, over 800 houses he had. I've had his ex customers contacting me for quotes as he's packed it in to go and work at Aldi. His ex customers live in houses that are £500k+, big detatched houses, he was charging them £10, my quotes are around £40 to £50 and not one of them has accepted the quote, they believe that £10 is the correct price. I'm not reducing my price to meet their expectations though. The last one I quoted I point blank told them that they've been spoilt with cheap prices and now this is the real price, take it or leave it.

The thing is though, if I wasn't getting any work, I would consider my prices, but I steadily get new work and I'm not losing any, so that's how I know the price is right. But you won't win them all and like others have said, there will always be somebody cheap out there. Just remember though, they can only clean so many houses, it's impossible for them to clean them all.

This is all so true. I’ve had my round for 25 years+ and people only balk at my figures when I quote for the first time after 80 year old crusty Joe has to pack up.
They have to get used to higher prices because we’re not crusty Joe who earns money for a pint and to supplement his pension.

 

[Jonseddo]

You really don't need to worry about it. What matters is whatever your price you charge high or low people are getting value for money and you justify it. If you charged 5 quid for a house then people probably expect a quick job without sills cleaned etc and maybe some are happy with that. Seeing the standard of some cleaners around here it amazes me. But equally there are lots of people who are very happy to pay higher prices because you are regular, text the night before and do a great job. Those are the customers you want and good cleaners certainly in my area are very much in demand.

I've been to many quotes where I quote say 15 to 20 quid and they say we'll the old cleaner did it for 5 or 10 quid. My answer is always the same well stick with the old cleaner then cos I will go bust at that price. The normal response is then oh well he doesn't turn up anymore or he's not any good which then is your chance to say well you get what you pay for and it's no surprise he doesn't come anymore he wouldn't have been earning a living. It's not a race to the bottom at the end of the day.

Bang on

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

In the last month we have been going round the house looking at what is actually plugged in and on 'standby'. In 'the office' I had PC, monitors, amp, tv, freeview, freesat, laptop, aerial booster, etc all on standby that are only actually used when I'm in the office. So they all went on a smart plug, only gets switched on when needed. That has dropped the base load of electricity by quite a bit!!! Most things that are plugged and switched on at wall will use a little electricity so switching stuff off - things like microwave (clock always on) is now switched off unless it's needed. Just trying to be practical not overly obsessed can lower your usage which is a great way to start saving.
Some of this was prompted by us finally getting a smart meter - avoiding anyone coming in house for last couple of years due to covid risk. It's now quite easy to see daily consumption without getting a spreadsheet out and taking daily meter readings .
I am still weighing up the cost of a few smart plugs vs the standby savings ?

It is difficult to know what to about solar, as @Chris34 said even with the cost of a loan to install solar IF prices stay high then it almost seems too good to be true!

I have a few friends that have solar and batteries that they installed (we all did electronics engineering apprenticeships together about 30+ years ago) they seem to be cutting their bills quite well but they don't get paid for anything that goes back to grid but their install costs were a lot less than having a certified install.

Another alternative calc I did was effectively using what used to be called Economy 7 electricity to overnight charge a battery at a low price to then use it during the day - no solar just using an Octopus go tariff! Currently you can have 00:30 to 4:40 at something like 7.8p per Kw. The calcs came out that IF electricity was 50p per Kw then payback (£5.5K battery, inverter, etc - no solar) would be something like 3.5 years which isn't too bad, batteries only guaranteed for 10 years so not too bad.

It's all so complex, expensive and a gamble it's so difficult to know what to do.....

We are concentrating of getting our daily costs down as a starting point.

Do you have a link to any of these batteries? I’m in a flat (mortgaged) but wondering if we can give over a cupboard to house one. I’m with Octopus so switching to the Go tariff wouldn’t be a issue.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I have a 4kw solar system for over 10 years now. Panel still producing the same and two inverters. I can buy batteries to store stuff I don't use but they are expensive and there is supply issues. The future is an electric van more Sunpower Max3 400 series panels and plenty of batteries.

 

[ched999uk]

Do you have a link to any of these batteries? I’m in a flat (mortgaged) but wondering if we can give over a cupboard to house one. I’m with Octopus so switching to the Go tariff wouldn’t be a issue.

Sorry no specific links to batteries. I was just thinking that say I use 10Kw a day then on an Octopus tariff I could charge the battery at low price and then use the stored energy the rest of the day. There are some youtube vids on battery use but mainly with solar, the problem with solar is in winter they don't produce much so people then 'program' the battery to charge on the cheap electricity. Channels like Electric Vehicle Man or The EV Puzzle did some vids on batteries and winter lack of solar.

 

[Stevie G]

Don't worry, concentrate on improving your standards, be reliable, be courteous always. Keep it up. You will soon start picking up work through word of mouth, especially when those others start messing up or give up.

 

[ched999uk]

Do you have a link to any of these batteries? I’m in a flat (mortgaged) but wondering if we can give over a cupboard to house one. I’m with Octopus so switching to the Go tariff wouldn’t be a issue.

Just found one of the vids I watched: Hope that gives you some ideas?

 

[Windowcleaningfleet]

Im actually going to Cancel my TV Licence . Going to use Netflix as my excuse if i ever get a knock on the door. So many people have said they have not had a licence for years. Might not sound much £13+ a month but hey theres so many excuses as to why you dont need one now

God dont mention Spotless water sites to them . Imagine house holders knowing they can just go out and buy a couple of 25ltr drums of pure water now. 70p_ a tub
get a backpack and pole thats them never needing a window cleaner. then lending the gear to there neighbours

I got one in the shop, he spent £400 on a backpack system and pole, he uses Spotless aswell , he uses the system to clean his pastics and his next doors conservatory roof, saves him a few hundred pound a year as he gets his fascias etc cleaned once every 6 months.
He still has his window cleaner aswell Lol

 

[johnny bravo]

Just found one of the vids I watched: Hope that gives you some ideas?

still no wiser

 

[ched999uk]

still no wiser

Basically Octopus and other energy suppliers have an off peak tariff. So their normal tariff is say 28p/Kwh but off peak is 7p/Kwh. Say you use 10Kwh a day, under standard tariff that would cost £2.80. If you have a 12Kw battery and charged it on the off peak tariff over night that would cost you 70p, then during the day you use the battery to power your home (can be set to charge on low tariff and run house automatically) . So you save £2.10 a day by running off the battery. The kicker is the battery, when you can get one, will set you back about £6500!!! So it would take over 8 years to pay back the cost of the battery by the savings made!!!

Batteries generally seem to have 10 year guaranty so they savings aren't great. Plus IF energy prices come down then you might not even break even, or off peak energy tariff could be discontinued!