Which sized lesuire battery?

[spruce]

Sorry to not be around.

Had some major work on son's Berlingo van for MOT. No one wanted the job to replace front and rear-wheel bearings, rear brake shoes and drums, as well as sanding and painting some surface rust on the brake pipes I replaced last year.
No one wanted the job as replacing wheel bearings is time-consuming when they can do other easier jobs for the same money. So I've spent the past 2 weeks dodging the rain to do the job on the front driveway.

With regard to leisure batteries, a higher CCA rating isn't necessary in our application @marlowswindows . It just gives the extra amps needed when starting the electric reel. I still believe charging your battery every night is best, but every second night is better than once a week. The split charge relay should put a little power back each journey.

It's those heavy use days we have occasionally where we have taken 12 amps from our battery at the end of the day, that the trip home of 10 miles won't replace any more than 3 or 4 amps tops, leaving a deficit. Yes, we will put a little more back into the battery on the way to work the next day, so the deficit shouldn't be much of an issue long term.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Sorry to not be around.

Had some major work on son's Berlingo van for MOT. No one wanted the job to replace front and rear-wheel bearings, rear brake shoes and drums, as well as sanding and painting some surface rust on the brake pipes I replaced last year.
No one wanted the job as replacing wheel bearings is time-consuming when they can do other easier jobs for the same money. So I've spent the past 2 weeks dodging the rain to do the job on the front driveway.

With regard to leisure batteries, a higher CCA rating isn't necessary in our application @marlowswindows . It just gives the extra amps needed when starting the electric reel. I still believe charging your battery every night is best, but every second night is better than once a week. The split charge relay should put a little power back each journey.

It's those heavy use days we have occasionally where we have taken 12 amps from our battery at the end of the day, that the trip home of 10 miles won't replace any more than 3 or 4 amps tops, leaving a deficit. Yes, we will put a little more back into the battery on the way to work the next day, so the deficit shouldn't be much of an issue long term.

Perfect thanks credit to your knowledge though held on along as I could before ordering haha.
Fingers crossed its a decent battery will trial this next week and see how it behaves.

Thanks to everyone for help and advice.

 

[Iron Giant]

It's those heavy use days we have occasionally where we have taken 12 amps from our battery at the end of the day, that the trip home of 10 miles won't replace any more than 3 or 4 amps tops, leaving a deficit. Yes, we will put a little more back into the battery on the way to work the next day,

If a Split charge relay system is fitted these will put back 5 to 7 amps for each hour the engine is running But they will only charge a battery to 70% Or 80% of its capacity and a bench charge will improve the battery life and condition. Lots of short l journeys of say 10 minutes a time will put very little energy back into a battery.

The above was cheekily Copy & Pasted from FB and was what Ian Sheppard wrote!!

 

[Deleted member 12462]

My plan is too bench charge every two nights. I've got a decent charger.

Hands up I've had to batteries expedition plus fairly cheap batteries so I've just happily killed then but the plan now is too have the one decent battery power everything and then get my self in to habit of charging up...... see how long I last ?

 

[spruce]

If a Split charge relay system is fitted these will put back 5 to 7 amps for each hour the engine is running But they will only charge a battery to 70% Or 80% of its capacity and a bench charge will improve the battery life and condition. Lots of short l journeys of say 10 minutes a time will put very little energy back into a battery.

The above was cheekily Copy & Pasted from FB and was what Ian Sheppard wrote!!

A split charge relay can only do what the alternator does.
In other words, my Peugeot Boxer van's alternator only generates at 13.9v. A maintenance free leisure battery needs to be charged at 14.2v. in winter it needs a fractional higher voltage.

My b2b battery charger boosts that voltage from 13.9 to 14.2v so my leisure battery gets a slightly faster charge. But the kicker is that a leisure battery will only accept a diminishing charge rate the fuller the battery gets. So if I've got a 98% fully charged battery, the battery will only accept a charge rate of a couple of amps (that's an hour), even although I have a 160 amp alternator.

So basically having a facility (split charge relay or a b2b charger) of the alternator charging the leisure battery doesn't work well for most of us. However, we have had a leisure battery fail twice in the days when we just bought what was available from a caravan sales outlet off the A1. In both cases we were able to finish the job with the van's engine running. One job was miles away.

If I decided to go to lithium I wouldn't have to bench charge my battery very often as they will accept a charge rate (amps) of what ever the alternator will throw at it until it's nearly fully charged. But lithium comes with other problems (protecting the alternator is one). Also, the cost of a 100amp battery is prohibitive for our industry imho.

 

[Iron Giant]

If I decided to go to lithium I wouldn't have to bench charge my battery very often as they will accept a charge rate (amps) of what ever the alternator will throw at it until it's nearly fully charged. But lithium comes with other problems (protecting the alternator is one). Also, the cost of a 100amp battery is prohibitive for our industry imho.

I had a quick look online at a 100ah lithium battery Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 105AhDefault Title

It has a 10 year warranty not sure how that would pan out against let's say a small 80-90ah lead acid battery which is around £80 which is what I'm stuck with, with my Facelift compact system as there is only a smallish area in the side of the tank to house a system battery,

Mine was down to 11.5 volts yesterday after a full day's work with my electric reel, I can almost see it struggling through the winter,

If I had to replace my battery every 2 years then the lithium battery would work out a tad cheaper and have more surplus capacity

 

[Deleted member 12462]

I had a quick look online at a 100ah lithium battery Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 105AhDefault Title

It has a 10 year warranty not sure how that would pan out against let's say a small 80-90ah lead acid battery which is around £80 which is what I'm stuck with, with my Facelift compact system as there is only a smallish area in the side of the tank to house a system battery,

Mine was down to 11.5 volts yesterday after a full day's work with my electric reel, I can almost see it struggling through the winter,

If I had to replace my battery every 2 years then the lithium battery would work out a tad cheaper and have more surplus capacity

I was tempted with a lithium battery but are they now more likely to be a fire hazard?

 

[Iron Giant]

I was tempted with a lithium battery but are they now more likely to be a fire hazard?

Really not sure on this at all about the volatility of them based on let's say how they are stowed away in a vehicle and the amount of movement they are going to get chucked at them within normal driving conditions.

The jury is out!!

 

[Deleted member 12462]

So battery's arrived been sorting all wiring a fuses making it neater.

I have but all wire back on.

I've put the engine on and the split charger worked and was showing 14.4 volts on my volt reader that is wired to the battery.

Normally when I plug my charger in it would show on the volt meter what voltage it's putting through its not showing that and its showing 12.8 v and the charger is charging still.

What's gone wrong?

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I bought my system and thought I would get away without charging my batteries. Think they last two years and I ended up buying two 110amp AGM batteries. I charge them all night after I have been using them with a slow charger and never had any problem with them. I think they are 3 or 4 years old but if you look after them by charging them then they will last a good while. You can buy an expensive Lithium Battery and it will last but the downside is a fire, stolen vehicle or worse someone nicks it.

 

[Pjj]

I bought my system and thought I would get away without charging my batteries. Think they last two years and I ended up buying two 110amp AGM batteries. I charge them all night after I have been using them with a slow charger and never had any problem with them. I think they are 3 or 4 years old but if you look after them by charging them then they will last a good while. You can buy an expensive Lithium Battery and it will last but the downside is a fire, stolen vehicle or worse someone nicks it.

From my limited experience with lithium batteries on my trollys they don last any longer than lead acid , the problem has been with the regulator built into them , my mate who’s a marine electrician and does all my vans tested the batteries and said they are ok it’s the regulator that’s shutting down giving the impression that the battery is flat when it’s fully charged , pure freedom don’t want to know and say 3 years is normal life . The regulator cannot be replaced .

 

[scottish cleaning service]

From my limited experience with lithium batteries on my trollys they don last any longer than lead acid , the problem has been with the regulator built into them , my mate who’s a marine electrician and does all my vans tested the batteries and said they are ok it’s the regulator that’s shutting down giving the impression that the battery is flat when it’s fully charged , pure freedom don’t want to know and say 3 years is normal life . The regulator cannot be replaced .

Is the regulator the thing in the battery that provides the info to the battery charger?

 

[Pjj]

Is the regulator the thing in the battery that provides the info to the battery charger?

Not sure but if it thinks the battery is below a set figure it shuts its self down to prevent damage , even when it’s fully charged it gets wrong readings and cannot be bypassed it’s a safety feature

 

[ched999uk]

It's normally called a BMS (Battery Management System). Lithium batteries need special charging system that not only monitors the battery voltage but also each cells voltage and balances the charge to them, it also has a low voltage cut off as taking a Lithium batteries too low will destroy it.
'Playing' with Lithium batteries is dangerous as their instantaneous discharge currents are very high plus pulling too much current can cause a fire. Same as puncturing a lithium can cause it to combust. It can probably be fixed but there is always a risk when repairing something like that.
The main advantages of Lithium batteries are their energy density is very high so you can have a smaller lighter battery than the equivalent lead acid, plus you can take them down to 20% of capacity vs lead acids 50%.

 

[Pjj]

It's normally called a BMS (Battery Management System). Lithium batteries need special charging system that not only monitors the battery voltage but also each cells voltage and balances the charge to them, it also has a low voltage cut off as taking a Lithium batteries too low will destroy it.
'Playing' with Lithium batteries is dangerous as their instantaneous discharge currents are very high plus pulling too much current can cause a fire. Same as puncturing a lithium can cause it to combust. It can probably be fixed but there is always a risk when repairing something like that.
The main advantages of Lithium batteries are their energy density is very high so you can have a smaller lighter battery than the equivalent lead acid, plus you can take them down to 20% of capacity vs lead acids 50%.

They are good but very expensive and not that reliable according to my mate they are now starting to go away from lithium in the marine Industry they have had so many issues with them . They are very difficult to charge using wind turbines like they have on boats . I think the more time that passes they will prove to be a major fire starting issue lead acid batteries rarely catch fire but lithium is a totally different animal , also virtually imposable to put out as well .

 

[spruce]

I had a quick look online at a 100ah lithium battery Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 105AhDefault Title

It has a 10 year warranty not sure how that would pan out against let's say a small 80-90ah lead acid battery which is around £80 which is what I'm stuck with, with my Facelift compact system as there is only a smallish area in the side of the tank to house a system battery,

Mine was down to 11.5 volts yesterday after a full day's work with my electric reel, I can almost see it struggling through the winter,

If I had to replace my battery every 2 years then the lithium battery would work out a tad cheaper and have more surplus capacity

Provided it lasted 10 years and they accept the warranty claim.

 

[spruce]

Perfect thanks credit to your knowledge though held on along as I could before ordering haha.
Fingers crossed its a decent battery will trial this next week and see how it behaves.

Thanks to everyone for help and advice.

At one time we had access to the NCC verified leisure battery scheme, which left manufacturers to test and report the performance of their leisure batteries in 3 classes.

This seems to have disappeared from the web, as each caravan website's link to the chart doesn't work.

I thought it was a good guide, but I always believed it was a case of the 'fox being put in charge of the hen house.'

Here's a comment from a poster on Practical Caravan in July 2020; "Everything to do with the NCC is flawed -it exists solely to protect and promote the interests of its member, the caravan industry - it doesn't exist to protect the consumer, caravanners."

Maybe this is the reason why it's disappeared.

Here's a copy of the last one I downloaded from 2020.

 

[spruce]

Personally I believe 10 years is too far into the future with Lithium. I don't think the lithium industry has a secure future. At least lead acid batteries have been around for decades, albeit rather old, poor performing technology.

According to some sources, the insurance industry is starting to kick against lithium due to risk and replacement costs. That on its own doesn't inspire confidence in me. I think that more existing customers are going to stop buying EV's due to high depreciation rates, which will impact the industry in general.

This is my feeling and my opinion. Other's might believe differently; so be it.

 

[Iron Giant]

Provided it lasted 10 years and they accept the warranty claim.

It's a long way into the future and even in 10 years I'll still be a greedy northerner who wouldn't part with over £300 for a battery, I'll see how this winter goes and may have to consider upgrading the battery and putting it in a box

 

[Deleted member 12462]

All wired in. I've built a box around the battery I've insulated around the bottom half and I've put a few cloths on the top part ( is it safe to do?) and vaseline around the terminals.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

All wired in. I've built a box around the battery I've insulated around the bottom half and I've put a few cloths on the top part ( is it safe to do?) and vaseline around the terminals.

I think any battery needs ventilation so it can dissipate heat when charging. Never heard anyone insulating around a battery. ?