Which sized lesuire battery?

[Deleted member 12462]

I think any battery needs ventilation so it can dissipate heat when charging. Never heard anyone insulating around a battery. ?

They don't like cold weather so just something to keep the edge off you can actually buy battery covers. So it won't do any harm the battery can stil ventilate

 

[ched999uk]

I think any battery needs ventilation so it can dissipate heat when charging. Never heard anyone insulating around a battery. ?

A lot of modern cars have insulated jackets around the starter batteries to protect them from the engine bay heat and the cold temp in winter. They do need ventilation though but that's not a huge amount of air flow - some batteries come with a small plastic tube to vent through.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

A lot of modern cars have insulated jackets around the starter batteries to protect them from the engine bay heat and the cold temp in winter. They do need ventilation though but that's not a huge amount of air flow - some batteries come with a small plastic tube to vent through.

I will take the lid off then. Not tight to the battery is the insulation so should be okay.just freezing in back of a van that's been sat since Friday.?

 

[ched999uk]

I will take the lid off then. Not tight to the battery is the insulation so should be okay.just freezing in back of a van that's been sat since Friday.?

As long as the vapours can escape then it should be fine.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Used today for first time probably 4 or 5 hours work due to weather.

Went out battery was at 12.8v I've been home 3 hours now all 3 volt readers are showing 12.7v.

I'm happy at that. I've got a victron charger so will leave that in van and hopefully charge every two days.

Would you say 12.4v is 50 percent charged?

 

[ched999uk]

Used today for first time probably 4 or 5 hours work due to weather.

Went out battery was at 12.8v I've been home 3 hours now all 3 volt readers are showing 12.7v.

I'm happy at that. I've got a victron charger so will leave that in van and hopefully charge every two days.

Would you say 12.4v is 50 percent charged?

About 12.1 is 50% charge on a sealed Lead Acid - It does very depending on which chart you look at. 12.89v is 100% charge again varies of which site you look at.
AGM is a little lower on both.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

About 12.1 is 50% charge on a sealed Lead Acid - It does very depending on which chart you look at. 12.89v is 100% charge again varies of which site you look at.
AGM is a little lower on both.

I found that it varied so next best thing was you guys.

 

[spruce]

Used today for first time probably 4 or 5 hours work due to weather.

Went out battery was at 12.8v I've been home 3 hours now all 3 volt readers are showing 12.7v.

I'm happy at that. I've got a victron charger so will leave that in van and hopefully charge every two days.

Would you say 12.4v is 50 percent charged?

There are a couple of different charts that give slightly different values for each state of charge.

This one attached seems to follow my Victron Battery Monitor results pretty closely, so it's the one use.

When testing a battery's state of charge, we have to wait at least 4 hours before checking the battery voltage. During that time, the battery needs to be fully rested. When arriving home, my battery will show a voltage of 13.3 or 13.4v because of the residual charge still in the battery and needs those 4 hours or more to completely dissipate.


The chart shows 12v as completely flat. These are at rest voltages, which are different to voltages under load. For example, Spring controllers are factory programmed to switch off at an under load voltage of 10.4/10.5v. Our Webasto diesel heater and other diesel air heaters do the same. 10.4v is considered to be flat when the battery is under load. Once the load is removed, the battery can quickly return to a voltage indicating a 50% state of charge. I experienced this myself a few years ago with my diesel heater and a 5-year-old leisure battery.

When a battery is new, a fully charged leisure battery charged with a smart charger should also be the capacity of the battery. When the battery starts to age, (or wear out), its capacity reduces. So you can have a fully charged old 110 amp battery reading 12.7v or above, but only have a capacity of say 20 amps. That 20 amp capacity would still keep our pumps running all day with the odd bit of alternator charging during the day, but add a load, such as our diesel heater, and the power needed for that will show the true state of that battery, capacity wise.

ps. I don't know what happened here, but I lost a whole lot of my response after this.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Happy with my set up now I've done a day and a half's work since putting it in fully charged. Last night it was showing 12.7 after 3 hours stationary.

Today full day fair bit of driving 4 hours rested showing 12.7v so for me split charger does help if I can get another day with out charging I will be very happy

 

[spruce]

Re: Battery boxes.
I have my leisure battery mounted on the frame on the side of the tank. It just means that the battery isn't sitting on the freezing van floor like it did with my previous van. I do have a cover across the top which protects the terminals of the battery against being shorted out with metal or carbon fibre.

 

[Deleted member 12462]

Think it's time to lock this post now I'm sure your all getting fed up with my nightly updates.

Hopefully good reading content for people

 

[Limbo_117]

Ive been recommneded to get one of these does anybody have one? Any good?View attachment 29366

I had nothing but problems with these! Had two connected in parallel (260ah bank)
Only lasted 6 months, after that capacity drops off.
They're religiously charged at end of every day with a 15amp Victron smart charger. I do have powered reel & diesel heater so pulling 50-60ah in a day (heaters pulls constant 5amps) but fully charged by next day.

So only using 25% of total capacity.
Alpha replaced them with a 250ah carbon gel.
That has only lasted 5 months! Same problem.
Also have a smart shunt to monitor usage, so I know what I'm using from them. I would avoid

 

[spruce]

I had nothing but problems with these! Had two connected in parallel (260ah bank)
Only lasted 6 months, after that capacity drops off.
They're religiously charged at end of every day with a 15amp Victron smart charger. I do have powered reel & diesel heater so pulling 50-60ah in a day (heaters pulls constant 5amps) but fully charged by next day.

So only using 25% of total capacity.
Alpha replaced them with a 250ah carbon gel.
That has only lasted 5 months! Same problem.
Also have a smart shunt to monitor usage, so I know what I'm using from them. I would avoid

Before giving up on them, I would try each battery individually. All that is needed in a battery bank is that one bad cell will drain both batteries.

My opinion is that the leisure battery market isn't now what we perceived it to be many years ago. But added to this is that consumers now place different demands on a leisure battery.

The leisure battery market centres around motor home and caravan usage. A leisure battery gets charged on route to the campsite and then mostly plugged into an electrical connection at the campsite. On the couple of occasions when electricity isn't available, the leisure battery will manage. Most people these days have additional small portable power sources and/or portable solar panels to supplement their power needs. A neighbour down the road from us complains that he has to replace his caravan leisure battery after each winter because it won't hold a charge. It goes into storage, but he pulls it home every month and recharges the battery on the driveway. They also won't warranty his battery either as he isn't maintaining it correctly.

Window cleaners come along and require a power source that isn't a fit with the demands of the current leisure market. So battery manufacturers accuse us of being battery abusers and reject any battery warranty claims, even if the claim is justified. It's the way it is. Once one supplier/manufacturer takes the no warranty for window cleaners step, they all follow.

We have always had good service from Numax leisure batteries. Having a diesel heater, I always chose a combination battery with a CCA rating. They are a compromise between a starter and leisure battery, so aren't perfect as a starter or a leisure battery. But they gave us around 3 years of service before they had to be replaced.

I fitted a Lithium phosphate 100 amp battery last December, which so far has worked faultlessly. My b2b charger has had to be switched off as the battery accepts a much higher charge rate than the lead acid leisure batteries did. However, I do expect to have to supplement that battery charge over winter, as that's when I mainly use the diesel heater.
The lithium battery I purchased has an internal warming blanket included, which, in my opinion, is a must. When the battery temperature is below 5 degrees, the battery BMS directs current to warm the battery first, and only then does the battery get charged. So when I think the battery is getting a 10 amp charge, it isn't. I do have a special lithium battery charger, so it's no problem switching it on in winter when I put the heater into the van to stop everything from freezing.

 

[Limbo_117]

Before giving up on them, I would try each battery individually. All that is needed in a battery bank is that one bad cell will drain both batteries.

My opinion is that the leisure battery market isn't now what we perceived it to be many years ago. But added to this is that consumers now place different demands on a leisure battery.

The leisure battery market centres around motor home and caravan usage. A leisure battery gets charged on route to the campsite and then mostly plugged into an electrical connection at the campsite. On the couple of occasions when electricity isn't available, the leisure battery will manage. Most people these days have additional small portable power sources and/or portable solar panels to supplement their power needs. A neighbour down the road from us complains that he has to replace his caravan leisure battery after each winter because it won't hold a charge. It goes into storage, but he pulls it home every month and recharges the battery on the driveway. They also won't warranty his battery either as he isn't maintaining it correctly.

Window cleaners come along and require a power source that isn't a fit with the demands of the current leisure market. So battery manufacturers accuse us of being battery abusers and reject any battery warranty claims, even if the claim is justified. It's the way it is. Once one supplier/manufacturer takes the no warranty for window cleaners step, they all follow.

We have always had good service from Numax leisure batteries. Having a diesel heater, I always chose a combination battery with a CCA rating. They are a compromise between a starter and leisure battery, so aren't perfect as a starter or a leisure battery. But they gave us around 3 years of service before they had to be replaced.

I fitted a Lithium phosphate 100 amp battery last December, which so far has worked faultlessly. My b2b charger has had to be switched off as the battery accepts a much higher charge rate than the lead acid leisure batteries did. However, I do expect to have to supplement that battery charge over winter, as that's when I mainly use the diesel heater.
The lithium battery I purchased has an internal warming blanket included, which, in my opinion, is a must. When the battery temperature is below 5 degrees, the battery BMS directs current to warm the battery first, and only then does the battery get charged. So when I think the battery is getting a 10 amp charge, it isn't. I do have a special lithium battery charger, so it's no problem switching it on in winter when I put the heater into the van to stop everything from freezing.

Thank you for your insights.
The original two are due for scrap heap I'm afraid.
The current battery in use is the replacement they sent:
250AH Expedition Plus Lead Carbon Gel Ultra Deep Cycle Battery (EXP12-250C)
5 months in service, not lasting the day

I'm currently in communication with the supplier who have advised that I charge the battery on a different setting to what I had set it to ( AGM Spiral ) which has a charge voltage higher than documented on the datasheet?
Dutifully set that last night and (too early to say but...) seems to of made a bit of a difference so suspect the higher voltage is needed for abit of de-sulphation.
But will seek clarification if that is a long term solution.
I don't have b2b, the system is completely separate as I plug the van in at end of day. Victron 15A Blue smart charger.
Having a smart shunt gives you a bit of leverage with the supplier as you can send the data to prove that you have looked after the battery and not discharged it too much.

I think after this, I will certainly be looking at lithium, what make / model have you fitted?

Winter not an issue as have a fan heater fitted, this all runs off a commando plug.

 

[Pjj]

Thank you for your insights.
The original two are due for scrap heap I'm afraid.
The current battery in use is the replacement they sent:
250AH Expedition Plus Lead Carbon Gel Ultra Deep Cycle Battery (EXP12-250C)
5 months in service, not lasting the day

I'm currently in communication with the supplier who have advised that I charge the battery on a different setting to what I had set it to ( AGM Spiral ) which has a charge voltage higher than documented on the datasheet?
Dutifully set that last night and (too early to say but...) seems to of made a bit of a difference so suspect the higher voltage is needed for abit of de-sulphation.
But will seek clarification if that is a long term solution.
I don't have b2b, the system is completely separate as I plug the van in at end of day. Victron 15A Blue smart charger.
Having a smart shunt gives you a bit of leverage with the supplier as you can send the data to prove that you have looked after the battery and not discharged it too much.

I think after this, I will certainly be looking at lithium, what make / model have you fitted?

Winter not an issue as have a fan heater fitted, this all runs off a commando plug.

I have recently gone away from the AGM batteries and gone for one 100 ah lithium battery and after a full days work using two reels, two pumps , and 9 kw boiler it’s still showing 60 % charge , I don’t fully understand the set up but a mate of mine is a marine electrician and he has changed the system over. Another intriguing thing is it recharges in a couple of hours much quicker than the AGM batteries ever did . The lithium battery is so lite as well you can pick it up with one finger , had this set up now a few months will see how it goes but so far I can’t fault it , I would certainly recommend it

 

[spruce]

I have recently gone away from the AGM batteries and gone for one 100 ah lithium battery and after a full days work using two reels, two pumps , and 9 kw boiler it’s still showing 60 % charge , I don’t fully understand the set up but a mate of mine is a marine electrician and he has changed the system over. Another intriguing thing is it recharges in a couple of hours much quicker than the AGM batteries ever did . The lithium battery is so lite as well you can pick it up with one finger , had this set up now a few months will see how it goes but so far I can’t fault it , I would certainly recommend it

Hi P. You only charge your batteries at night as you don't have a b2b charger on your van/s.

When I used to supplement the charging of my lead acid battery, I just plugged the charger in and left it all night.

Fogstar, the supplier of my battery recommend I charge it until it's full and switch the 230v charger off. Someone stated on a YouTube video that you don't want the battery bms to be the last point of the control chain. This is one reason I monitor my b2b charger and switch it off when the battery is full.

I have often wondered what Sterling recommended you did.

 

[spruce]

Thank you for your insights.
The original two are due for scrap heap I'm afraid.
The current battery in use is the replacement they sent:
250AH Expedition Plus Lead Carbon Gel Ultra Deep Cycle Battery (EXP12-250C)
5 months in service, not lasting the day

I'm currently in communication with the supplier who have advised that I charge the battery on a different setting to what I had set it to ( AGM Spiral ) which has a charge voltage higher than documented on the datasheet?
Dutifully set that last night and (too early to say but...) seems to of made a bit of a difference so suspect the higher voltage is needed for abit of de-sulphation.
But will seek clarification if that is a long term solution.
I don't have b2b, the system is completely separate as I plug the van in at end of day. Victron 15A Blue smart charger.
Having a smart shunt gives you a bit of leverage with the supplier as you can send the data to prove that you have looked after the battery and not discharged it too much.

I think after this, I will certainly be looking at lithium, what make / model have you fitted?

Winter not an issue as have a fan heater fitted, this all runs off a commando plug.

I purchased a Fogstar 100amp battery from Fogstar along with a Fogstar 20 amp lithium charger.
I already had a Sterling b2b so just altered it's charging profile to suit lithium.

(The reason why I purchased a b2b charger was that I was drawn along by the hype that a b2b charger could/would charge a lead acid battery up to 5 times faster than a scr. It didn't for me.)

@Pjj has a battery from Sterling.

I was nervous about changing from lead acid to lithium, especially considering the bad press lithium ion is getting. However lithium phosphate (Lifepo4) doesn't have the same safety risks, although it still needs to be treated with respect.

It's my recommendation for anyone going this lithium route is to purchase a battery from a local manufacturer/supplier. I would be hesitant to buy a cheaper product from a supplier from Amazon or Ebay.

I would always recommend that the battery be ordered with an internal heating blanket. In winter, my van is always just above freezing as I've set the froststat on my heater to come on at 2 degrees. The froststat on my diesel heater comes on at 3 degrees, it's never toasty warm in the back.

Fogstar also have an app you can download so you can keep track of what's going on, even down to the battery's internal temperature.

I also have a Victron battery monitor on board, but the two apps don't always agree. Atm my Fogstar app, which takes its information from the bms, is reading an 80% state of charge where my Victron app is reading 75% state of charge. As the bms (which is a well known and respected make) is the heart of the battery, I mainly tend to use that.

Fogstar isn't a well-known battery manufacturer/assembler/supplier in the UK. There was another cleaner who purchased the same battery a year previously and he recommended the product. They also have a very helpful technical team.

I have also needed the help of Sterling with my battery 2 battery and again, George Sterling jnr is extremely helpful.

At the time the Sterling battery was £200 more expensive than the Fogstar battery.

 

[Iron Giant]

(The reason why I purchased a b2b charger was that I was drawn along by the hype that a b2b charger could/would charge a lead acid battery up to 5 times faster than a scr. It didn't for me.)

It's interesting that you say this, off the subject a little I purchased a new Victron blue smart charger I read from reviews that it was charging batteries really fast, the first time I used it my battery after a full days work charged battery in under 1hr, then since then it's taken hours to charge,

Up until yesterday, I had issues with the app so I was leaving the battery charger on all night but as of yesterday I was getting the correct data it's taking 8hrs 50 mins, my old Numax charger used to be done it about 3hrs.

 

[Jpb]

Seeing as this post is resurrected then. I’ve still been confused with most of what read. If I wanted a battery that I’d happily charge every night to cope with a one man system (no B2B or anything) working a 7 hour day (including travel) a 100a or over Numax would be a good buy?
Would an electric reel make a difference?

 

[Iron Giant]

Seeing as this post is resurrected then. I’ve still been confused with most of what read. If I wanted a battery that I’d happily charge every night to cope with a one man system (no B2B or anything) working a 7 hour day (including travel) a 100a or over Numax would be a good buy?
Would an electric reel make a difference?

Yes, https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/numax/xv31mf/ this one has twin terminals which is better in my opinion as depending on how you connect your electrics system and in the future an electric reel I have my reel and system electrics connected to the standard post terminal and my battery charger permanently connected to the threaded terminals also this battery is part cold cranking and part leisure battery which is better suited when using an electric reel

 

[ched999uk]

Just so everyone is aware Fogstar are now selling 'budget' lithium leisure batteries under their brand 'Drift ECO' these don't have battery heaters or bluetooth to the bms. I think they are mainly designed for motorhomes/campervans probably not for chilly vans .
Fogstar are fast becoming the premium brand for LiFePO4 batteries among motorhomes/campervan users. They do have a very good reputation. The problem with budget brands from the likes of Amazon are you have no idea what bms (Battery Management System) they are using. Some claim to have low temp cut offs to prevent charging at low temps when some youtubers have tested them there is no low temp cut offs - so you could be damaging the cells if you attempt to charge at low temps. Similarly the cell balancing, max charge discharge etc might not be managed correctly.

I will be looking very closely at the Fogstar Drift Eco when my van leisure battery fails as I'm not keen on the 'smart split charge relay' that I currently have so might disconnect it and just buy a lithium and lithium charger. So although the purchase cost would probably be double a decent lead acid it should last 6 to 10 years!