Whose responsibility to cover window cleaners with insurance

[Erika]

As dodgy as it sounds, it's pretty common for small business owners to seek some form of contribution, if you can call it so, from employees who caused a problem while at work.

Yes, you're covered by insurance, but they will have to pay an excess and then the yearly premium goes up as well. I think if your boss is not a complete donkey and you're a reasonable person yourself, then there's nothing wrong with offering some sort of financial contribution for solving the problem, but this of course hugely depends on the scale of the problem and whether it's genuinely your fault.

I guess I will just invite him for a 1-1 meeting to discuss about all this information what I just got from everybody. Meanwhile still Do my research on the topic. Thanks for your information 

 

[Part Timer]

I totally agree with everything you say and what you say is right. What I'm sharing is not really advice, but just personal experience working for small based businesses and how various problems can be settled by having a decent relationship with your employer.

Like I said, it all depends on individual circumstances, but I believe the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes in various situations, and not just thinking about yourself, will help you to progress well not just in business, but in life in general.

But his "boss" is trying to do him out of what he's entitled to. He isn't a decent person and needs to be stopped. What would happen if the OP is seriously injured working for him. Would his boss be a decent upstanding employer when he's trying to cheat the system.

I'm all for finding a fair and amicable solution, I've been self employed for 21 years and made a good living by being able to do so, but in this situation the OP is peeing against the wind with this clown.

 

[adamangler]

I have a lad just started working for me this week. He worked previously for a big ish window cleaning company for 6 months before. I asked him for a p45 and they didn't give him one. Further digging and they didn't give him an employment contract, In fact they made him invoice them! I asked if he was registered as self employed... Which he wasn't, so he has paid no tax on his earnings and neither had the company who "employed" him. They got rid of him with no notice and no holiday pay. He was completely oblivious to it and just did as they asked. 

Told him that they would be ****** if he reported them. He's owed a weeks notice and 6 months accrued holiday pay by law.. 

So same applies here, they are breaking laws and if they ask you to pay just laugh and point out there stupidity. If they get rid of you ask for what you are owed as per your statutory rights or you will be reporting them!

 

[Cghwindowcleaning]

I have a lad just started working for me this week. He worked previously for a big ish window cleaning company for 6 months before. I asked him for a p45 and they didn't give him one. Further digging and they didn't give him an employment contract, In fact they made him invoice them! I asked if he was registered as self employed... Which he wasn't, so he has paid no tax on his earnings and neither had the company who "employed" him. They got rid of him with no notice and no holiday pay. He was completely oblivious to it and just did as they asked. 

Told him that they would be ****** if he reported them. He's owed a weeks notice and 6 months accrued holiday pay by law.. 

So same applies here, they are breaking laws and if they ask you to pay just laugh and point out there stupidity. If they get rid of you ask for what you are owed as per your statutory rights or you will be reporting them!

I think a high majority still work this way.

I have had a chat just today with a lad who has 4 lads working for him in 2 vans and is not vat registered.How is that even possible even if they only done 25k each which  is shocking that's 100k turnover alone.

It really shouldn't bother me as I've been going long enough and am busy enough not to worry.But they are dragging prices down.I can't compete they have cheap labour and dodge massive amounts in tax, insurance and vat which allows them to price cheap.

 

[adamangler]

I think a high majority still work this way.

I have had a chat just today with a lad who has 4 lads working for him in 2 vans and is not vat registered.How is that even possible even if they only done 25k each which  is shocking that's 100k turnover alone.

It really shouldn't bother me as I've been going long enough and am busy enough not to worry.But they are dragging prices down.I can't compete they have cheap labour and dodge massive amounts in tax, insurance and vat which allows them to price cheap.

Probably by taking a large chunk of his income in undeclared cash and paying his lads mostly cash in hand.

I know of cleaners that do that or have done it this way but personally i couldnt sleep at night worrying that the tax man might come knocking. Best to just do everything above board.

 

[ched999uk]

It really shouldn't bother me as I've been going long enough and am busy enough not to worry.But they are dragging prices down.I can't compete they have cheap labour and dodge massive amounts in tax, insurance and vat which allows them to price cheap.

To a certain degree it should bother you. Not only are they dragging your prices down but they are also depriving the gov of desperately needed income.

One good think is if they are not declaring income properly then they wouldn't have been able to claim 80% of their normal income on either Furlow or SEISS, just 80% of what they declared ?

 

[Erika]

I think a high majority still work this way.

I have had a chat just today with a lad who has 4 lads working for him in 2 vans and is not vat registered.How is that even possible even if they only done 25k each which  is shocking that's 100k turnover alone.

It really shouldn't bother me as I've been going long enough and am busy enough not to worry.But they are dragging prices down.I can't compete they have cheap labour and dodge massive amounts in tax, insurance and vat which allows them to price cheap.

Funny thing . As of today I find out that the company has not a single insurance at all ... also , the window cost 1300£ . Interesting fact . The lady who claims that I’ve scratched her window wanna deal with the fixing issue but I have to pay (lol ?)  , same as my company ... I was like wtf ? So basically everyone wants me to pay but they either claim insurance (apparently the lady has got one but not covers that Lol again ) or just do tax return on it ... I have literally laughed and walked out saying no I’m not paying and seeking for advice at citizen advisor bureau ?
The game is on MF 

 

[Part Timer]

I think a high majority still work this way.

I have had a chat just today with a lad who has 4 lads working for him in 2 vans and is not vat registered.How is that even possible even if they only done 25k each which  is shocking that's 100k turnover alone.

It really shouldn't bother me as I've been going long enough and am busy enough not to worry.But they are dragging prices down.I can't compete they have cheap labour and dodge massive amounts in tax, insurance and vat which allows them to price cheap.

As an industry we need to stop this. I'm fairly certain that the 2 biggest companies in my area operate the same system. I've been asked to do jobs they do, very badly, and even working very keenly I can't get within 40% of their prices. I'm  talking about full day jobs for 2 men working non stop and using 1000l, to do the job properly, are being done for £240.

Ignoring our profit margins there's men and women working without insurance, sick and holiday pay, pensions and benefits. If I could prove what I think I'd have no hesitation in reporting them.

 

[dmw]

As an industry we need to stop this. I'm fairly certain that the 2 biggest companies in my area operate the same system. I've been asked to do jobs they do, very badly, and even working very keenly I can't get within 40% of their prices. I'm  talking about full day jobs for 2 men working non stop and using 1000l, to do the job properly, are being done for £240.

Ignoring our profit margins there's men and women working without insurance, sick and holiday pay, pensions and benefits. If I could prove what I think I'd have no hesitation in reporting them.

Cash in hand us still rife in the areas I work and it does drag down the prices for the rest of us.

I think in the old days it used to be lads getting paid cash while signing on whereas nowadays the boss is paying their lads cash and classing  them as self employed and telling them to pay their own tax (which I doubt). I reckon the treasury rarely sees any money off these characters .

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

He has provided everything and exactly  that’s why I was thinking that something is not right in here ... 

He provides all equipment and tells you where to go to the jobs?  

You work for his company full time and no other company? Yes to these two questions and you are an employee and it is your BOSS liability and not yours - go to the Citizens Advice Bureau and get some free advice 

DO NOT PAY HIM OR HER A PENNY

Do you provide your boss with an invoice or bill for the jobs you do during the week for him and then he pays you the amount on the invoice?  

If yes it is possible to argue you are a subcontractor
If NO (and I will bet this is the case) and he simply pays you a flat amount each week for working then you are AN EMPLOYEE and you are protected by a ton of laws - again go to the Citizens Advice Bureau near you for help 

From the way you type English I am guessing you are an immigrant in the UK but do not let that worry you at all you are PROTECTED by EXACTLY the same employment laws as everyone REGARDLESS of whatever nonsense your boss says. 

PAY NOTHING before you get advice 
IF HE OWES YOU MONEY AND IS TRYING TO HOLD IT FROM YOU again get advice and TELL HIM you are getting advice - this is usually enough to scare SCUMBAG BOSSES into paying what they owe. 

Good luck to you. 

 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Funny thing . As of today I find out that the company has not a single insurance at all ... also , the window cost 1300£ . Interesting fact . The lady who claims that I’ve scratched her window wanna deal with the fixing issue but I have to pay (lol ?)  , same as my company ... I was like wtf ? So basically everyone wants me to pay but they either claim insurance (apparently the lady has got one but not covers that Lol again ) or just do tax return on it ... I have literally laughed and walked out saying no I’m not paying and seeking for advice at citizen advisor bureau ?
The game is on MF 

If he has been paying you CASH IN HAND -- then you can also report him to HMRC as HE IS RESPONSIBLE for your taxes and National Insurance --- it may not get you any monies he's holding back but it will be a big knife in the gut for him when they turn up for an audit and charge him all his back payments plus penalties.  

Also they wont come after you for the TAX that is HIS responsibility also. 

 

[harunh]

You should be covered under his policy, he should have insurance for his self and all the workers. the gaffer should sort this out for you.

A lot of people dont have public liability, pretty daft really cos its not that expensive and an accident can happen at any time, so having PLI is a must in any business.
 

 

[cleaniac]

It's really easy to get all emotionally involved with matters like this. 

I have been accused of scratching glass twice I think in 20 years now window cleaning.

On BOTH occasions I acknowledged the existence of the scratch, and asked the customer to check my brush for any sharp bits. 

On BOTH occasions, they couldn't find any cause on the brush. I then would reason with them that if I had caused the scratch due to my brush, I would expect more than one window to be damaged, and we should go round every window to check for the same type of scratch, so we check and guess what we find 2 more, completely different types of scratches, one was a dig (probably caused by cement on the glass, as it will etch a tiny dent) and the other was more like a mark, like a roof tile had grazed it.

I then reasoned that if I have scratched the glass, which one was it? How do we know? And how can you establish what scratch belongs to what cause?  And that I am as clueless as you with regards to proving weather it was me that caused it or not.

The answer is that you can't prove anything.

As for your employer, (He is your employer if you do not have any of your own direct customers weather he likes it or not) he is breaking the law, FACT.

He should be checking to make sure that all his sub contractors either work with at least 2 other contract companies at the same time, or have at least 2 direct customers to be deemed sub contracting.