Will my battery handle 2 pumps and controllers?

[wezza13]

Hi all,

As the title suggests; would I be able to run 2 of these pumps and controllers (I already have this one and am planning to buy a second set) off of this one battery? Or would I need to buy a secondary battery?

The second (new) set will only be used twice a week, for about 6-8 hours per day, if this makes any difference at all?

Cheers,

Wez

My battery : :                                   My pump + controller 

 

[Martyn]

We were running two for about six hours a day and was o.k.  If you've got split charge should be no problem at all, if not you would be better off getting a second battery for long term. Temperature will also have a bearing on this, it rarely gets below four or five degrees here.

 

[spruce]

No problem @wezza13. We do it all the time.

Obviously you will take a fair bit of charge out of the battery with 2 pumps running all day, but just put the battery on charge when you get home. When the battery has had a hard day I just recharge it that same night.

Ideally, your 110 amp leisure battery shouldn't drop below 50% charge. This means you have 55 amps of power available.

Running continuously each pump will draw approx 4 amps an hour. However, you wouldn't run a pump for an hour. If you work 8 hours we estimate that you will use about 16 amps per pump where you have compact work. A big industrial clean might be 45 minutes per hour or 24 amps per day.

 

[wezza13]

No problem @wezza13. We do it all the time.

Obviously you will take a fair bit of charge out of the battery with 2 pumps running all day, but just put the battery on charge when you get home. When the battery has had a hard day I just recharge it that same night.

Ideally, your 110 amp leisure battery shouldn't drop below 50% charge. This means you have 55 amps of power available.

Running continuously each pump will draw approx 4 amps an hour. However, you wouldn't run a pump for an hour. If you work 8 hours we estimate that you will use about 16 amps per pump where you have compact work. A big industrial clean might be 45 minutes per hour or 24 amps per day.

Thanks, that's good to know.

I ordered a second battery last night, as I thought it's handy to have a spare anyway - just in case. I'm also planning on buying an electric reel in the new year, so imagine that they hook up to the leisure battery too? I can't imagine they use much battery power anyway as, realistically, you're only going to be winding in between 10-20 times per day.

I've noticed that when it's at full charge, it says 12.9 amps (on my controller under BAT). I haven't seen it drop below 12 amps yet, even after using for 2 or 3 days. I wanted to know - is there a certain number, i.e. 11.9 amps or whatever, when I should think to myself that I definitely need to charge it overnight? 

 

[spruce]

Thanks, that's good to know.

I ordered a second battery last night, as I thought it's handy to have a spare anyway - just in case. I'm also planning on buying an electric reel in the new year, so imagine that they hook up to the leisure battery too? I can't imagine they use much battery power anyway as, realistically, you're only going to be winding in between 10-20 times per day.

I've noticed that when it's at full charge, it says 12.9 amps (on my controller under BAT). I haven't seen it drop below 12 amps yet, even after using for 2 or 3 days. I wanted to know - is there a certain number, i.e. 11.9 amps or whatever, when I should think to myself that I definitely need to charge it overnight? 

You need to check your voltage after the battery has rested for around 4 hours to get an accurate reading.

12.7v or higher Fully charged

12.5v   Three quarters charged

12.4v  Half charged

12.2v  A quarter charged

12v or lower Empty

Under load the voltage will drop much lower than 12v. The Spring and Varistream controllers determine when a battery is discharged under load when the voltage reads 10.3 - 10.4v. At this point a controller will switch off to save further damage to the battery.

Ideally, you don't want the at rest battery voltage to drop below 12.4v. Running a battery lower than this will shorten its life.

Now lets talk about the good, the bad and the ugly of an electric reel. Electric reels run for 30 or 40 secs a time. They draw a lot of current when they are in operation.I think you will find a 25a inline fuse in some of them.

25amps isn't a lot of current if you are talking in amp hours but its still a lot of current being drawn. Old style leisure batteries aren't designed to discharge this amount of energy at one time.

So the leisure industry had to design a combination battery, one that is both a leisure and a starter battery. Most caravans have motor movers that have a heavy current need and other caravan owners want a battery suitable for wild camping.

So many class B leisure batteries state a CCA (cold cranking amps) rating to cater for their needs.

I believe that this type of battery is more suitable for window cleaners using electric reels.

These combo batteries aren't as good as old style leisure batteries and aren't as good as starter batteries. There is no perfect battery.

 

[Den]

I have two pumps, two contollers and two hdpower ups. My battery is 110amps works perfect ?

 

[Iron Giant]

I have an electric reel and when I get home and connect my charger the battery has depleted by around 50% I have this battery https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/numax/xv31mf/ it's a part deep cycle and starter battery better suited to using an electric reel and wfp pump 

 

[wezza13]

You need to check your voltage after the battery has rested for around 4 hours to get an accurate reading.

12.7v or higher Fully charged

12.5v   Three quarters charged

12.4v  Half charged

12.2v  A quarter charged

12v or lower Empty

Under load the voltage will drop much lower than 12v. The Spring and Varistream controllers determine when a battery is discharged under load when the voltage reads 10.3 - 10.4v. At this point a controller will switch off to save further damage to the battery.

Ideally, you don't want the at rest battery voltage to drop below 12.4v. Running a battery lower than this will shorten its life.

Now lets talk about the good, the bad and the ugly of an electric reel. Electric reels run for 30 or 40 secs a time. They draw a lot of current when they are in operation.I think you will find a 25a inline fuse in some of them.

25amps isn't a lot of current if you are talking in amp hours but its still a lot of current being drawn. Old style leisure batteries aren't designed to discharge this amount of energy at one time.

So the leisure industry had to design a combination battery, one that is both a leisure and a starter battery. Most caravans have motor movers that have a heavy current need and other caravan owners want a battery suitable for wild camping.

So many class B leisure batteries state a CCA (cold cranking amps) rating to cater for their needs.

I believe that this type of battery is more suitable for window cleaners using electric reels.

These combo batteries aren't as good as old style leisure batteries and aren't as good as starter batteries. There is no perfect battery.

Thank you Spruce, that's some great reading. Going to write those numbers on the back of the controller ?

I have two pumps, two contollers and two hdpower ups. My battery is 110amps works perfect ?

That's interesting to know, thanks. Maybe I didn't need an extra battery then? Then again, it doesn't really hurt to have a spare.

 

[Den]

I alway charge everyday as soon as I finish use a smart charger my battery as never gone under 12.5v when working I heard somewhere the hd power reels use less power than the rest of the competition done hold me to that though lol, the last hd power up I purchased is slower to reel in than my original reel maybe a less powered motor? 

 

[Cactus27]

deep cycle (liesure) batteries are rated in amp hours.

a small 10 amp hour battery can run device using 1 amp for 10 hours or a device using 10 amps for 1 hour.

 a 110 amp hour battery can run a device using 1 amp for 110 hours or a 10 amp device for 11 hours.

formula amphours divided by amps used= runtime

assuming all items are win full and proper working order.

note: a pump motor will show it's amperage eg 10 amps. this is the MAXIMUM amperage it will draw under FULL LOAD under normal conditions it will draw much less.

 

[Pjj]

deep cycle (liesure) batteries are rated in amp hours.

a small 10 amp hour battery can run device using 1 amp for 10 hours or a device using 10 amps for 1 hour.

 a 110 amp hour battery can run a device using 1 amp for 110 hours or a 10 amp device for 11 hours.

formula amphours divided by amps used= runtime

assuming all items are win full and proper working order.

note: a pump motor will show it's amperage eg 10 amps. this is the MAXIMUM amperage it will draw under FULL LOAD under normal conditions it will draw much less.

Ime no electrician but what you have put would be using the total capacity of the battery and running it flat surely???? This would cause permanent damage .

 

[Cactus27]

Ime no electrician but what you have put would be using the total capacity of the battery and running it flat surely???? This would cause permanent damage .

no, that is the amount of service it can provide within it's proper operating range. i have researched this very thoroughly, the info is all available on line.

 

[Iron Giant]

I have a 105ah battery and it would run flat after 2 working days of around 6hrs of working, I charge mine every night straight after work my battery is depleted by around 50% after a working day, 

 

[spruce]

Ime no electrician but what you have put would be using the total capacity of the battery and running it flat surely???? This would cause permanent damage .

We would try to keep the leisure battery above 50% charge for longevity.

The trouble is with the experts is that there are different opinions on battery care and performance. 2 experts working for the same company can have totally opposite views on a specific application issue.

A leisure battery can be used until flat and recharged asap, but according to manufacturers, this uses up one of the duty cycles. Each time this is done the battery performs less efficiently./loses a fraction of its capacity.

Until recently we had very little info on various batteries and their performance. Some battery manufacturers were quoting very high duty cycles on their spec sheets only to find in the very small print that they were measuring a duty cycle from 100% to 80%. The batteries appeared better quality than a company that say fully discharged theirs.

Thankfully the NCC in the UK have introduced battery testing standards and classified battery performance against one set of standards so we know what we can expect and can compare 'apples with apples.'

https://www.thencc.org.uk/Our_Schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

Some batteries we thought were good options have been seen to be not so when the marketing fog is lifted. Would you buy a leisure battery that is rated for 70 cycles at a 50% discharge?

 

[Iron Giant]

The trouble is with the experts is that there are different opinions on battery care and performance

I've got you down as an expert, can I seek compensation if your advice is wrong ?   

 

[spruce]

I've got you down as an expert, can I seek compensation if your advice is wrong ?   

I wouldn't put me in that category if I were you.? "The older I get the better I was" is what you have to base your opinion of me on.

Seriously though, this battery charging and usage seems so simple yet when you dig deeper its very complex.

We have to be one of the battery industry's heaviest battery users. Yet all we have is our own experience to go on. The industry isn't interested in helping us with battery charging and usage guidelines. Their answer is to just exclude us from any warranty support.

We are forced to use leisure batteries and the industry just has a take it or leave it attitude toward us. We are classed as battery abusers.

When is a battery flat? Is it at 12.0v as some say? Others tell us its 11.8v and others will tell you its 10.4v. As I commented earlier, you can get 2 experts working in the same company with different opinions. How the hang are we supposed to get an accurate answer to a problem?

I look toward our controller suppliers as a means of testing what someone else says. We have Spring and Varistream controllers. Both manufacturers design their controllers to switch the controller off when the voltage under load drops to 10.4v to save the battery. (Spring have added an override.) If I leave the battery at this point to recover, it will eventually recover to around 12 volts. (My experience.) That tells me that when a battery is reading 12.0v after 4 hours rest, its flat. So when someone says otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, they are talking rubbish.

My leisure battery is nearly 5 years old and got a pounding today with 2 pumps going. Its on charge tonight. My ethos has always been to charge this battery every second night in summer and every night in winter. Its no problem as I have to put the heater in the back of the van, so plugging the charger in takes another 30 seconds.

I have a Numax intelligent battery charger I have used for the past 12 years. If it works for me, then I recommend my way of working to everyone who asks. If it didn't work then I would shut up when the topic arose.

A fellow window cleaner not far for me has 2 x 85amph batteries. He uses one and leaves the other on charge. He swaps them over the next day. He bought two of the worst batteries on the market imo, LION, but they have each lasted him around 3 and a half years. He doesn't have a split charge relay either. He mostly works with his son these days as I do. He uses a single battery with 2 x controllers and 2 x pumps.

 

[harunh]

My van has 2 batteries on board, one as a main and one as a backup. Once the main gets more abuse we then move that over to a backup and have a new main one if that makes sense.

We bring them in everyday to get charged, the batteries tend to last us 2-3 years with heavy abuse, we use the yuasa battries that are the same batteries in the pure freedom trolley, very high quality batteries.

 

[Mx19]

I’m obviously missing something here as I have my pump permanently wired up to the main car battery. I do drive a bit between jobs, done this all year and not had an issue but is there something I should be weary of?! 

 

[Iron Giant]

@spruce you are the resident expert, hence us members voted/agreed for you to have a special status ?

 

[Martyn]

I’m obviously missing something here as I have my pump permanently wired up to the main car battery. I do drive a bit between jobs, done this all year and not had an issue but is there something I should be weary of?! 

Yep! One day you will finish a job, go to start your vehicle and it won't. I learnt that one a long time ago but I have a mate who refuses to learn the lesson and has to buy a new battery every couple of years. (He does carry a jump pack in his van though)

 

[spruce]

I’m obviously missing something here as I have my pump permanently wired up to the main car battery. I do drive a bit between jobs, done this all year and not had an issue but is there something I should be weary of?! 

Here is a good explanation comparing starter and leisure batteries from the experts. ?

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/understanding-leisure-batteries/