Waterfed pole spotting.

Hey Chaps.

Ive just bought a waterfed pole setup (big boy bacpack with phoenix pole etc etc) and did a practice run at a mates house yesterday to test it all out.

Leading up to buying the kit i obviously had been watching loads of videos on all the techniques etc so i feel that i cleaned the right way yet STILL got spotting (my mate kindly sent me some pics when he got home as per my request)

I cleaned the frames first, followed by a thorough rinse of frames and then started on the glass with a thorough scrub into the top edge and corners of frame and then the usual 2 to 3 agitations on the glass finishing off with a good rinse down.

The pics attached are the results i got! He said its not as bad as it looks (but im not happy at all and im sure a paying customer wouldnt be either)

Now to be fair, the windows havent been cleaned In over 6 years so i know i shouldnt beat myself up too much but can you guys tell me if you think i couldve done a better job with more rinsing or scrubbing etc?

I did take Darrens advice about Managing clients expectations etc and i have come up with a paragraph in my information pack saying that it may take a few cleans etc but Im not so happy that most high windows i did yesterday ended up with a few spots [emoji29]

PS i tried razr wash and got a great results (pics of befire and after if that can be of help to anyone who has been considering it)

Thanks guys [emoji106]

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Sash windows can be more problematic if you look at at the top pic the underside of the frame of top unit has dirty droplets of water hence you're getting spotting.

As for the minging pvc frames and discolouration on the sills that's a restoration job not a regular clean and will take pvc cleaner

County Durham Lad

Thanks mate ....yep i did the frames as a test to try out the Razr wash. That would be an upsale on a reg job not standard.

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The sash windows will be tricky initially, you will be getting water behind the frame where it will be particularly dirty, you can actually see the dirty frame beside the glass. so this would have taken a good 2 or 3 washes to get that bit clean. It also looks like it's above an extension so you would have to angle your brush flatter to be able to rinse under the frame properly. Not bad for a first attempt, on windows even established WFP's would have been wary on. 

Part Timer said:

The sash windows will be tricky initially, you will be getting water behind the frame where it will be particularly dirty, you can actually see the dirty frame beside the glass. so this would have taken a good 2 or 3 washes to get that bit clean. It also looks like it's above an extension so you would have to angle your brush flatter to be able to rinse under the frame properly. Not bad for a first attempt, on windows even established WFP's would have been wary on. 

Click to expand...

Thanks mate...those windows are above an extension indeed but seeing it was my mate, i was able to climb out his window and do them while standing in front of them...but ill take the compliment anyway [emoji12] either way, im just going to keep going and keep learning and take any negative client feedback on the chin. There's still so much i need to experiment with (angle necks, brush head types, different jets etc etc) so ill hopefully pick it up soon.

Cheers

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Panorama window cleaning said:

Thanks mate...those windows are above an extension indeed but seeing it was my mate, i was able to climb out his window and do them while standing in front of them...but ill take the compliment anyway

either way, im just going to keep going and keep learning and take any negative client feedback on the chin. There's still so much i need to experiment with (angle necks, brush head types, different jets etc etc) so ill hopefully pick it up soon.

Cheers

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Click to expand...

Now they are completely dry, do yourself a favour and go and clean them again. You will see the results are much better. Then you will learn from this experience.

We purchased a round from trad cleaners who only cleaned glass. The frames were minging. When we converted from trad to wfp we found the first clean was a total mess. We were able to do about 6 houses at a time and then returned to the first house and recleaned all the windows and frames again. By that time the windows were completely dry.

When the second clean was done and had dried we got the odd window here and there that needed to be cleaned again.

When we did the next clean 4 weeks later the results were perfect.

We only had one lounge window that still dried full of spots after the third clean on the first clean. I ended up drying the frame and blading the windows down. When we cleaned 4 weeks later the windows were fine and we never had an issue with them after that.

Unfortunately in this heat we are experiencing a few windows with spotting from the top frame. These windows have never been a problem before. They are also the south facing windows. We really have a problem with north facing windows. So just ride the next few months out and it will come right.

.

6 years is ridiculous no wonder he probably waiting for you to start up all along!

All first cleans are a mare. Some more than others. Charge well for them and constantly check over your work. Its the height of summer as well streaks very noticeable in this heat.
Maintenance cleans are a breeze but you can lose a lot of time and money on first cleans if you dont get a good price. Kind of hard to break in to the market charging high if you’re inexperienced but you’ve gotta make a living at the end of the day.
Also sash windows PITA charge more.
If you ever get a complaint, it’s almost always going to be about the first clean. First impressions are everything. Gotta get them right.
Great job on the sill by the way! Spruced it up proper


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spruce said:

Now they are completely dry, do yourself a favour and go and clean them again. You will see the results are much better. Then you will learn from this experience.
 
We purchased a round from trad cleaners who only cleaned glass. The frames were minging. When we converted from trad to wfp we found the first clean was a total mess. We were able to do about 6 houses at a time and then returned to the first house and recleaned all the windows and frames again. By that time the windows were completely dry.
When the second clean was done and had dried we got the odd window here and there that needed to be cleaned again.
When we did the next clean 4 weeks later the results were perfect.
 
We only had one lounge window that still dried full of spots after the third clean on the first clean. I ended up drying the frame and blading the windows down. When we cleaned 4 weeks later the windows were fine and we never had an issue with them after that.
 
Unfortunately in this heat we are experiencing a few windows with spotting from the top frame. These windows have never been a problem before. They are also the south facing windows. We really have a problem with north facing windows. So just ride the next few months out and it will come right.
 
.
 

Click to expand...

Thanks alot spruce, really good advice [emoji106]

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Incheck said:

6 years is ridiculous no wonder he probably waiting for you to start up all along!

All first cleans are a mare. Some more than others. Charge well for them and constantly check over your work. Its the height of summer as well streaks very noticeable in this heat.
Maintenance cleans are a breeze but you can lose a lot of time and money on first cleans if you dont get a good price. Kind of hard to break in to the market charging high if you’re inexperienced but you’ve gotta make a living at the end of the day.
Also sash windows PITA charge more.
If you ever get a complaint, it’s almost always going to be about the first clean. First impressions are everything. Gotta get them right.
Great job on the sill by the way! Spruced it up proper


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Click to expand...

Thanks mate, It's great advice you've given me. I think you are right. For first cleans itll be worth just waiting for the wimdows to practically dry and then just go over them again to tru ensure a good finish. I have only just started and yet to take on customers so will charge normally but then just do a thorough job. My traditional work is fairly decent and waterfed pole just needs to be thorough. Only issue is I'm working with 3x25l barrels and a big boy 2 so 100L max per day (all in a bloody ford focus).... that'll be fine to start though while i slowly gain customers (Ill be able to afford using more water until i get to capacity).

ill be off on Monday canvassing like crazy

Thanks for comment on sill... amazing stuff that Razr wash. But of elbow grease and a dish sponge... was really easy

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spruce said:

Now they are completely dry, do yourself a favour and go and clean them again. You will see the results are much better. Then you will learn from this experience.
 
We purchased a round from trad cleaners who only cleaned glass. The frames were minging. When we converted from trad to wfp we found the first clean was a total mess. We were able to do about 6 houses at a time and then returned to the first house and recleaned all the windows and frames again. By that time the windows were completely dry.
When the second clean was done and had dried we got the odd window here and there that needed to be cleaned again.
When we did the next clean 4 weeks later the results were perfect.
 
We only had one lounge window that still dried full of spots after the third clean on the first clean. I ended up drying the frame and blading the windows down. When we cleaned 4 weeks later the windows were fine and we never had an issue with them after that.
 
Unfortunately in this heat we are experiencing a few windows with spotting from the top frame. These windows have never been a problem before. They are also the south facing windows. We really have a problem with north facing windows. So just ride the next few months out and it will come right.
 
.
 

Click to expand...

Spruce,

Sorry to hijack but I've tried to message you a couple of times with no joy. I'm getting a message about module not supported... Would you be so kind to drop me a message please

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Jordiebarrett said:

Spruce,

Sorry to hijack but I've tried to message you a couple of times with no joy. I'm getting a message about module not supported... Would you be so kind to drop me a message please

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Click to expand...

done

Incheck said:

6 years is ridiculous no wonder he probably waiting for you to start up all along!

All first cleans are a mare. Some more than others. Charge well for them and constantly check over your work. Its the height of summer as well streaks very noticeable in this heat.
Maintenance cleans are a breeze but you can lose a lot of time and money on first cleans if you dont get a good price. Kind of hard to break in to the market charging high if you’re inexperienced but you’ve gotta make a living at the end of the day.
Also sash windows PITA charge more.
If you ever get a complaint, it’s almost always going to be about the first clean. First impressions are everything. Gotta get them right.
Great job on the sill by the way! Spruced it up proper


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Click to expand...

you have to charge according to quality, if your quality is poor due to inexperience then how can you charge more?

Once your getting great results then up your prices, till then keep em as low as possible. good quality work=god prices!

Panorama window cleaning said:

Thanks mate, It's great advice you've given me. I think you are right. For first cleans itll be worth just waiting for the wimdows to practically dry and then just go over them again to tru ensure a good finish. I have only just started and yet to take on customers so will charge normally but then just do a thorough job. My traditional work is fairly decent and waterfed pole just needs to be thorough. Only issue is I'm working with 3x25l barrels and a big boy 2 so 100L max per day (all in a bloody ford focus).... that'll be fine to start though while i slowly gain customers (Ill be able to afford using more water until i get to capacity).

ill be off on Monday canvassing like crazy

Thanks for comment on sill... amazing stuff that Razr wash. But of elbow grease and a dish sponge... was really easy

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

Click to expand...

there's your problem mate, needing to conserve water!

you really cant do that with a first clean. I did a £15 3 bed dethatched today and it took me 1/12 hours and 150 litres of water to get clean, and ive been at this ages. It was a pig (dirty as) though

If you want to feel confident on your first cleans then you need to do a very thorough job the first time. You need to remove all traces of dirt, soap residue and road grime/BBQ grease. I always use no nonsense degreaser on the first clean and give it a very very thorough brushing and give it a good rinse after. First cleans take me about 3 times longer than a maintenance clean but it's worth it to be confident in your results and it means you can just give it a quick normal clean next time.

paul alan said:

there's your problem mate, needing to conserve water!

you really cant do that with a first clean. I did a £15 3 bed dethatched today and it took me 1/12 hours and 150 litres of water to get clean, and ive been at this ages. It was a pig (dirty as) though

Click to expand...

Unfortunately for you @paul alan is correct when he notes your needing to conserve water. A first clean and water saving don't usually 'hold hands'. 

paul alan said:

you have to charge according to quality, if your quality is poor due to inexperience then how can you charge more?

Once your getting great results then up your prices, till then keep em as low as possible. good quality work=god prices!

Click to expand...

Personally, I think thats going to be difficult in practice. Most customers will alway accept low prices but will baulk when you raise them.

No matter how poor your technique, you should be able to achieve near perfect first clean results by spending more time and patience doing the first clean. This is why you practice on your own windows over and over again. You then look for windows of trusting relatives locally to clean to get practice, even if you do them for nothing.

Trust me, the example of the trad round we purchased and immediately converted it to wfp was testiment to 'if we could do it, you can.'

We had never cleaned wfp before, we had this round with minging window frames and reasonably clean glass, we were using whippy Unger teleplus poles with heavy Vikan oval brushes. We didn't have controllers back then - they didn't exist - and we had 3mm jets in the brushes. The only advantage we had over you was that we had 375 liters of water on hand in tanks on the back of a trailer.

After I had converted this round I helped another trad cleaner convert some of his remaining round to wfp as well. I worked at that doing that for about 3 months and then started looking for my own work.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as being half pregnant. She is or she isn't. When you go wfp you have to go the whole way. You can't play around on the edges or dabble with wfp. You need more water. There is nothing to say you can't get a small trailer and fill it with a dozen 25 liter plastic containers. A couple of local cleaners have worked this way for years, one uses a Ford Fiesta with roof bars for his pole. He has a trolley though, not a backpack.

My son prefers his backpack even although he has a hose reel to use on the van. He does first cleans without any problems, but even now after all these years of cleaning experience, we will always go back a couple of hours later to check our work and sort out any streaks. I did a new clean this past week and had a streak on a downstairs window to clean off which I did with a damp towell.

spruce said:

Personally, I think thats going to be difficult in practice. Most customers will alway accept low prices but will baulk when you raise them.
 
No matter how poor your technique, you should be able to achieve near perfect first clean results by spending more time and patience doing the first clean. This is why you practice on your own windows over and over again. You then look for windows of trusting relatives locally to clean to get practice, even if you do them for nothing.
 
Trust me, the example of the trad round we purchased and immediately converted it to wfp was testiment to 'if we could do it, you can.'
We had never cleaned wfp before, we had this round with minging window frames and reasonably clean glass, we were using whippy Unger teleplus poles with heavy Vikan oval brushes. We didn't have controllers back then - they didn't exist - and we had 3mm jets in the brushes. The only advantage we had over you was that we had 375 liters of water on hand in tanks on the back of a trailer.
 
After I had converted this round I helped another trad cleaner convert some of his remaining round to wfp as well. I worked at that doing that for about 3 months and then started looking for my own work.
 
Unfortunately there is no such thing as being half pregnant. She is or she isn't. When you go wfp you have to go the whole way. You can't play around on the edges or dabble with wfp. You need more water. There is nothing to say you can't get a small trailer and fill it with a dozen 25 liter plastic containers. A couple of local cleaners have worked this way for years, one uses a Ford Fiesta with roof bars for his pole. He has a trolley though, not a backpack.
 
My son prefers his backpack even although he has a hose reel to use on the van. He does first cleans without any problems, but even now after all these years of cleaning experience, we will always go back a couple of hours later to check our work and sort out any streaks. I did a new clean this past week and had a streak on a downstairs window to clean off which I did with a damp towell.
 
 

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Just did another friends house today - windows weren't as bad as the other friends and were all UPVC in good order and i got way better results this time.... Only a few tiny spots on 2 windows which i buffed out with microfibre later on. I managed it on 50 litres but did even all the low windows which i wouldnt have usually.

I will have to try get a few more containers as i take on paid work but i do have quite a lot of spare space in my focus (i drop the seats so there's quite alot of space).

Cheers



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Skxawng said:

If you want to feel confident on your first cleans then you need to do a very thorough job the first time. You need to remove all traces of dirt, soap residue and road grime/BBQ grease. I always use no nonsense degreaser on the first clean and give it a very very thorough brushing and give it a good rinse after. First cleans take me about 3 times longer than a maintenance clean but it's worth it to be confident in your results and it means you can just give it a quick normal clean next time.

Click to expand...

What degreaser do you use? Also Do you just spray it onto brush head for high windows? Ive bought some Razr wash recently which is amazing on UPVC but not 100% sure if itd be good for glass. Im looking to maybe grab some ubik 2000 as its cheap and really good from what ive seen.

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paul alan said:

you have to charge according to quality, if your quality is poor due to inexperience then how can you charge more?
 
Once your getting great results then up your prices, till then keep em as low as possible. good quality work=god prices!

Click to expand...

I am reasonably new but im not poor in quality i wouldnt say. I go over any trad work a few times and buff out any turn marks (i still get a few) and with wfp i intend to go over a couple times to be sure. Alot of people charge a load for 1st clean but ill only charge additional 50% and still use chemicals and go over a couple times to be sure. Ive got a disclaimer saying it could take a couple times but i dont ever wish that will be the case. I will be charging reasonably but not high and will always be happy to go back if need be.

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Panorama window cleaning said:

I am reasonably new but im not poor in quality i wouldnt say. I go over any trad work a few times and buff out any turn marks (i still get a few) and with wfp i intend to go over a couple times to be sure. Alot of people charge a load for 1st clean but ill only charge additional 50% and still use chemicals and go over a couple times to be sure. Ive got a disclaimer saying it could take a couple times but i dont ever wish that will be the case. I will be charging reasonably but not high and will always be happy to go back if need be.

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Click to expand...

But yeah i need to get a bloody van and a better setup ASAP as its not easy operating like this. Will be a good test for me though for now and i should come out strong on the other side [emoji41]

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Panorama window cleaning said:

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Just did another friends house today - windows weren't as bad as the other friends and were all UPVC in good order and i got way better results this time.... Only a few tiny spots on 2 windows which i buffed out with microfibre later on. I managed it on 50 litres but did even all the low windows which i wouldnt have usually.

I will have to try get a few more containers as i take on paid work but i do have quite a lot of spare space in my focus (i drop the seats so there's quite alot of space).

Cheers



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Click to expand...

What type of weight can you put in a focus?

Also a point to note is you may be the safest driver in the world but it only takes one idiot to go into the front/back or side of you and it would not be pretty with 25 kilo containers on the seats behind and to the side of you. 

Craigmac said:

What type of weight can you put in a focus?
 
Also a point to note is you may be the safest driver in the world but it only takes one idiot to go into the front/back or side of you and it would not be pretty with 25 kilo containers on the seats behind and to the side of you. 

Click to expand...

This has crossed my mind mate trust me. The 3x 25L containers and big boy 2 (100litres) fit in my boot while the Rest goes on the dropped down seats. Im fine for now but really do need a van and dont like operating like this. As soon as i can afford to trade focus i will.... wont take too long i hope

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Panorama window cleaning said:

What degreaser do you use? Also Do you just spray it onto brush head for high windows? Ive bought some Razr wash recently which is amazing on UPVC but not 100% sure if itd be good for glass. Im looking to maybe grab some ubik 2000 as its cheap and really good from what ive seen.

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Click to expand...

I use screwfix no nonsense degreaser as it's cheap and easy to get hold of. I haven't tried ubik but I've heard it's good. I think it's a similar kind of thing. 

I spray a couple of sprays onto my brushead for upstairs and spray directly onto the window for downstairs.