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has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis. 

Thinking of doing this,  does anyone have any tips or advice please.

Edited by Algie
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51 minutes ago, Algie said:

has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis. 

Thinking of doing this,  does anyone have any tips or advice please.

I think the term 'taking on staff' means it should be on an employed basis!!!! Beware HMRC will not look favorably on trying to duck paye!!!! If in doubt ask an accountant how to sub contract out work and what the rules are for HMRC to not consider it employing by the back door to avoid tax, national insurance etc.

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Neil.. Lancashire
1 hour ago, Algie said:

has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis. 

Thinking of doing this,  does anyone have any tips or advice please.

has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis

 

quite a few people want to try this route.  The reality is you will get hammered if you don't do this properly, and HMRC get involved.

 

If there using your equipment or vehicle, wearing your uniforms and cant choose weather to except the work your asking them to do, or choose when to carry this work out. HMRC will class them as being employed I'm afraid.

  • Like 2
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I saw companies fall foul of this in the doorman world when I was at Uni working doors to pay my way. Simply put if you have somene who you are dictating to when, where, how what they use and what price they work for then they are are not self employed.

 

If your farming work out its difxerent but "taking someone on as self employed" is a complete oxymoron.

 

HMRC defines someone the following as self employed:

Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit

they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it

they can hire someone else to do the work

they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time

their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish

they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work

they can work for more than one client.

 

If they fit most of the following they will be defined as an employee:

they’re required to work regularly unless they’re on leave, for example holiday, sick leave or maternity leave

they’re required to do a minimum number of hours and expect to be paid for time worked

a manager or supervisor is responsible for their workload, saying when a piece of work should be finished and how it should be done

they can’t send someone else to do their work

the business deducts tax and National Insurance contributions from their wages

they get paid holiday

they’re entitled to contractual or Statutory Sick Pay, and maternity or paternity pay

they can join the business’s pension scheme

the business’s disciplinary and grievance procedures apply to them

they work at the business’s premises or at an address specified by the business

their contract sets out redundancy procedures

the business provides the materials, tools and equipment for their work

they only work for the business or if they do have another job, it’s completely different from their work for the business

their contract, statement of terms and conditions or offer letter (which can be described as an ‘employment contract’) uses terms like ‘employer’ and ‘employee’

 

Edited by GarethParry
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1 hour ago, Algie said:

has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis. 

Thinking of doing this,  does anyone have any tips or advice please.

They can only be classed as self employed if they supply their own equipment and have other streams of income. If you supply all of their work and equipment they are employed by you and you will need to have employers liability, pay employers NI and many other things.

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2 hours ago, ched999uk said:

I think the term 'taking on staff' means it should be on an employed basis!!!! Beware HMRC will not look favorably on trying to duck paye!!!! If in doubt ask an accountant how to sub contract out work and what the rules are for HMRC to not consider it employing by the back door to avoid tax, national insurance etc.

Thanks for the heads up.

TBH I have always employed people on paye but this person asked to go self employed. 

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1 hour ago, Neil.. Lancashire said:

has anyone taken on staff on a self employed basis

 

quite a few people want to try this route.  The reality is you will get hammered if you don't do this properly, and HMRC get involved.

 

If there using your equipment or vehicle, wearing your uniforms and cant choose weather to except the work your asking them to do, or choose when to carry this work out. HMRC will class them as being employed I'm afraid.

Thats a great help, thanks for the advice

1 hour ago, GarethParry said:

I saw companies fall foul of this in the doorman world when I was at Uni working doors to pay my way. Simply put if you have somene who you are dictating to when, where, how what they use and what price they work for then they are are not self employed.

 

If your farming work out its difxerent but "taking someone on as self employed" is a complete oxymoron.

 

HMRC defines someone the following as self employed:

Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit

they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it

they can hire someone else to do the work

they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time

their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish

they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work

they can work for more than one client.

 

If they fit most of the following they will be defined as an employee:

they’re required to work regularly unless they’re on leave, for example holiday, sick leave or maternity leave

they’re required to do a minimum number of hours and expect to be paid for time worked

a manager or supervisor is responsible for their workload, saying when a piece of work should be finished and how it should be done

they can’t send someone else to do their work

the business deducts tax and National Insurance contributions from their wages

they get paid holiday

they’re entitled to contractual or Statutory Sick Pay, and maternity or paternity pay

they can join the business’s pension scheme

the business’s disciplinary and grievance procedures apply to them

they work at the business’s premises or at an address specified by the business

their contract sets out redundancy procedures

the business provides the materials, tools and equipment for their work

they only work for the business or if they do have another job, it’s completely different from their work for the business

their contract, statement of terms and conditions or offer letter (which can be described as an ‘employment contract’) uses terms like ‘employer’ and ‘employee’

 

thatsva great help,  Thanks 👍

  • Like 1
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No worrries man its a bit of a minfield but their definitions are pretty black and white. Theres some in between the lines reasing you could do but just be careful best to speak to a tax consultant they wilö know 100% whats safe.

It could ruin your business and a whole lot more by going against the tax man so just worth getting it righr first time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 hours ago, Dirty dan said:

I used to be class as self employed sometimes when I was driving artics, I obviously used their trucks/equipment so not sure how they got away with that

I know, what about DJ’s? They use the clubs equipment and have to be there at a specific time, can’t let others do their work etc but yet I dont know one that’s an employee, all self employed. My brother in law owns a TA company and all his staff are self employed. Yes we all know about the plimco plumbers but there’s deffo ways you can have someone work for you on a had hoc basis and legally be self employed. 

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In my understanding it's called sub-contractor.

All it needs is an invoice from the self-employed, addressed to the self-employed or company who is hiring. No need for contract. I had been hired as self-employed by a company and I have also hired some other guy to jump in to assist.

Not sure what the problem is with this. Isn't this the way to do it?

Edited by Attila
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