controller/battery not being cooperative

[Baldmonkey]

commissoned the new van for approximatley 6 weeks till i put the other one away and used this full time.

everything has been fine until this week.

whilst cleaning, the flow would slow then increase, then repeat again.

controller was showing bat and approx 11.7v so i though the batteries had got low, so made sure they have been on charge every second the vans at home.

van is normally plugged in every night and charged pretty consistent at 13.2v @ 8.2amp

i did some work on it this weekend (not electrical) so the van interior lights may have drained it a touch.

charged every night but the same happened again today... but the weird thing is the pump was dragging the onboard leisure batteries (which are brand new on this build, as is everuthing including pumps and controller) nearly 2v at one point when started and the read outs dont match.

controller reading a consistent 11.0v but the feed panel was staying static at 12.2v...surely they should even out but they didnt!!

anyone seen anything like this or are the leisure batteries faulty.

brand new 220ah onboard (none vehicle batteries)
brand new shurflo pump
brand new wfp link v16
alternator is puming out good voltage and have a brand new split charge relay onboard too... issue improves if van is left running but never seen a pump drag so much power.

any ideas @Ian Sheppard

 

[spruce]

commissoned the new van for approximatley 6 weeks till i put the other one away and used this full time.

everything has been fine until this week.

whilst cleaning, the flow would slow then increase, then repeat again.

controller was showing bat and approx 11.7v so i though the batteries had got low, so made sure they have been on charge every second the vans at home.

van is normally plugged in every night and charged pretty consistent at 13.2v @ 8.2amp

i did some work on it this weekend (not electrical) so the van interior lights may have drained it a touch.

charged every night but the same happened again today... but the weird thing is the pump was dragging the onboard leisure batteries (which are brand new on this build, as is everuthing including pumps and controller) nearly 2v at one point when started and the read outs dont match.

controller reading a consistent 11.0v but the feed panel was staying static at 12.2v...surely they should even out but they didnt!!

anyone seen anything like this or are the leisure batteries faulty.

brand new 220ah onboard (none vehicle batteries)
brand new shurflo pump
brand new wfp link v16
alternator is puming out good voltage and have a brand new split charge relay onboard too... issue improves if van is left running but never seen a pump drag so much power.

any ideas @Ian Sheppard

I think you need to get a multimeter onto the new battery and confirm its voltage.

You then need to run the engine and check the voltage going into the battery. If your new van has a smart alternator with regenerative braking, then the alternator doesn't always charge the starter battery which means the leisure battery isn't being charged either. My old split charge relay only kicked on when the charging voltage reached 13.3v.

13.2v charging output doesn't sound right tbh. It's too low. It should be between 13.9v and 14.2v.

Using a multimeter will confirm which voltage gauge is reading correctly. Your pump running symptoms point to an uncharged leisure battery and faulty charger. Pump rate improving when the engine is running points me toward a leisure battery issue; either faulty or flat.

The interior lights of the van are usually powered by the van's battery.

 

[ched999uk]

If the 2 are reading 0.4v difference the I would check the connections as I suspect the controller to battery has a poor connection either +12v or 0V. A high resistance connection will cause a drop in voltage and that will be worse the more current that's pulled.
Ideally use a voltmeter and check the voltage at each connection point and that should help narrow it down.

 

[Baldmonkey]

I think you need to get a multimeter onto the new battery and confirm its voltage.

You then need to run the engine and check the voltage going into the battery. If your new van has a smart alternator with regenerative braking, then the alternator doesn't always charge the starter battery which means the leisure battery isn't being charged either. My old split charge relay only kicked on when the charging voltage reached 13.3v.

13.2v charging output doesn't sound right tbh. It's too low. It should be between 13.9v and 14.2v.

Using a multimeter will confirm which voltage gauge is reading correctly. Your pump running symptoms point to an uncharged leisure battery and faulty charger. Pump rate improving when the engine is running points me toward a leisure battery issue; either faulty or flat.

The interior lights of the van are usually powered by the van's battery.

Hi @spruce , thanks for the reply...sorry i don't think i was clear about the charging situation...so i have an onboard mains charger that charges at the approximate 13.2v @8.2amp when plugged in and on charge every night. the split charge relay is working brilliant and the alternator is charging at approx. 14.5v when engine is running and is confirmed via multiple sources a volt meter connected into the vehicle away from the onboard leisure batteries, the mains charger connected permanently to the leisure batteries and the voltmeter further down the chain after the leisure batteries.

everything appears to be charging correctly at any given point so it looks like the leisure batteries either need a good long charge or are goosed.

 

[Jango]

Do you think the leisure batteries have been sat on the shelf during the Covid period of the retailer.
I got a new van battery in 2 days it was flat. That was the problem. Been sat on their shelves for / years. They happily replaced it. Could be the same with yours.

 

[Pjj]

Do you think the leisure batteries have been sat on the shelf during the Covid period of the retailer.
I got a new van battery in 2 days it was flat. That was the problem. Been sat on their shelves for / years. They happily replaced it. Could be the same with yours.

Think the batteries should have a date stamp on them might be worth having a look ?

 

[Jango]

Mine was in date. But one of the cells was dodgy. They said it’s because of closure of the shops during Covid not having been charged.

 

[spruce]

Hi @spruce , thanks for the reply...sorry i don't think i was clear about the charging situation...so i have an onboard mains charger that charges at the approximate 13.2v @8.2amp when plugged in and on charge every night. the split charge relay is working brilliant and the alternator is charging at approx. 14.5v when engine is running and is confirmed via multiple sources a volt meter connected into the vehicle away from the onboard leisure batteries, the mains charger connected permanently to the leisure batteries and the voltmeter further down the chain after the leisure batteries.

everything appears to be charging correctly at any given point so it looks like the leisure batteries either need a good long charge or are goosed.

If your battery is low on charge, then alternator charging by the scr isn't going to make much of an impression on a 220amp battery. 13.2v is too low to recharge a battery, imho.

 

[Baldmonkey]

If your battery is low on charge, then alternator charging by the scr isn't going to make much of an impression on a 220amp battery. 13.2v is too low to recharge a battery, imho.

yeah i thought that but it works up in stages my charger, thats what it starts at but came out after an hour and it was 13.9v @8.1 amp... ?

 

[Baldmonkey]

think ive found the culprit... the switches lit uo are the feed from the main power source through from the batteries.

the controller turn itself off a few times today so had to be intermittent loss of power, changed switches and it is reading the same volts as the board and everywhere else now.

had batyeries checked by a friend today and they were virtually full and nothing wrong with them.

conclusion... faulty switch feeding the controller... will confirm if any different soon.

never ever had any power issues in any van ?

 

[ched999uk]

think ive found the culprit... the switches lit uo are the feed from the main power source through from the batteries.

the controller turn itself off a few times today so had to be intermittent loss of power, changed switches and it is reading the same volts as the board and everywhere else now.

had batyeries checked by a friend today and they were virtually full and nothing wrong with them.

conclusion... faulty switch feeding the controller... will confirm if any different soon.

never ever had any power issues in any van ?

A high resistance connection will cause all sorts of issues. Well done for finding the iffy switch. Looks like you have a few of them, they do look good but maybe they can't handle the current.
I have had a 12v pump that sort of melted it's switch over time. I guess it must have got some grit in and was causing a high resistance that led to heat which melted the switch a little and then it just gets worse and worse.

Might be worth changing any of the switches that control anything above about 5Amps.

 

[spruce]

A high resistance connection will cause all sorts of issues. Well done for finding the iffy switch. Looks like you have a few of them, they do look good but maybe they can't handle the current.
I have had a 12v pump that sort of melted it's switch over time. I guess it must have got some grit in and was causing a high resistance that led to heat which melted the switch a little and then it just gets worse and worse.

Might be worth changing any of the switches that control anything above about 5Amps.

... and then power them through 40 amp car headlamp relays.

12v DC is terrible for destroying electrical components, especially if they are switch contacts and aren't well made.

 

[Baldmonkey]

A high resistance connection will cause all sorts of issues. Well done for finding the iffy switch. Looks like you have a few of them, they do look good but maybe they can't handle the current.
I have had a 12v pump that sort of melted it's switch over time. I guess it must have got some grit in and was causing a high resistance that led to heat which melted the switch a little and then it just gets worse and worse.

Might be worth changing any of the switches that control anything above about 5Amps.

its like you read my mind, im going to be measuring the switches this weekend to buy and replace them with better quality and rating, these are just cheap rubbish ones, had the same version in my other van but never any issue.

... and then power them through 40 amp car headlamp relays.

12v DC is terrible for destroying electrical components, especially if they are switch contacts and aren't well made.

why the relay? what improvement will it make, dont have much knowledge of them unfortunately.
it is well protected and all wiring is of a suitable size for everything as you go down the chain.
comes from the battery through a 50amo circuit breaker, into a fuse box, the feed is then fed from a 30 amp fuse to the control panel and that particular switch has a 15 amp fuse before the controller ?

 

[ched999uk]

its like you read my mind, im going to be measuring the switches this weekend to buy and replace them with better quality and rating, these are just cheap rubbish ones, had the same version in my other van but never any issue.

why the relay? what improvement will it make, dont have much knowledge of them unfortunately.
it is well protected and all wiring is of a suitable size for everything as you go down the chain.
comes from the battery through a 50amo circuit breaker, into a fuse box, the feed is then fed from a 30 amp fuse to the control panel and that particular switch has a 15 amp fuse before the controller ?

A relay is just a device designed to switch large currents. You could use the existing switches to control relays to actually switch the amps so to speak. Car relays are very good as they are designed for decent current (30 to 40 amps) and have spade terminals so crimp connections work well.

If you want a diagram just let me know and I will find one.

 

[Baldmonkey]

brilliant thanks for that, ill have a look into it... never to old to learn ?

 

[ched999uk]

brilliant thanks for that, ill have a look into it... never to old to learn ?

Yellow side should say Low Current and Blue side High Current but it gives you an idea.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

commissoned the new van for approximatley 6 weeks till i put the other one away and used this full time.

everything has been fine until this week.

whilst cleaning, the flow would slow then increase, then repeat again.

controller was showing bat and approx 11.7v so i though the batteries had got low, so made sure they have been on charge every second the vans at home.

van is normally plugged in every night and charged pretty consistent at 13.2v @ 8.2amp

i did some work on it this weekend (not electrical) so the van interior lights may have drained it a touch.

charged every night but the same happened again today... but the weird thing is the pump was dragging the onboard leisure batteries (which are brand new on this build, as is everuthing including pumps and controller) nearly 2v at one point when started and the read outs dont match.

controller reading a consistent 11.0v but the feed panel was staying static at 12.2v...surely they should even out but they didnt!!

anyone seen anything like this or are the leisure batteries faulty.

brand new 220ah onboard (none vehicle batteries)
brand new shurflo pump
brand new wfp link v16
alternator is puming out good voltage and have a brand new split charge relay onboard too... issue improves if van is left running but never seen a pump drag so much power.

any ideas @Ian Sheppard

Hi Guys

Sorry to be late into the discussion I am away in at a trade show in the US. Thanks to Spruce and every one for pitching in. Sounds like through a process of elimination the source of the issue has been found, Hopefully changing the switch will sort the issue. Out of interest is the van a 22 plate? The reason for asking is that the emissions standard changed in January 2022 and is now EURO6.2D

This means the alternator stops charging the Vehicle battery once it reaches 85% of capacity ( approx 15 minutes ) from starting the van after that the alternator voltage drops off. This might mean the split relay is only charging for short periods at 8.1a and then dropping to 1a or 2a so while charging of the leisure battery continues after that initial 15 mins it is being charged at low current

Cheers

 

[Baldmonkey]

Hi Guys

Sorry to be late into the discussion I am away in at a trade show in the US. Thanks to Spruce and every one for pitching in. Sounds like through a process of elimination the source of the issue has been found, Hopefully changing the switch will sort the issue. Out of interest is the van a 22 plate? The reason for asking is that the emissions standard changed in January 2022 and is now EURO6.2D

This means the alternator stops charging the Vehicle battery once it reaches 85% of capacity ( approx 15 minutes ) from starting the van after that the alternator voltage drops off. This might mean the split relay is only charging for short periods at 8.1a and then dropping to 1a or 2a so while charging of the leisure battery continues after that initial 15 mins it is being charged at low current

Cheers

Thanks for the reply ian, hope your enjoying the states whilst we have snow and ice

I think i have confused everyone with how i have explained my charging situation..

i have a split charge relay that charges as i drive (obv) and the alternator gives out a steady 14.7v continuously

I also have a 240v battery charger onboard built into the system, so when i plug it in it automatically kicks in and starts charging, thats what starts out as 13.2v @8.2 amps and the volts slowly grow over time.

RESOLUTION . was definitely the switch, no issues whatsoever today so will be upgrading all the switches to a heavy duty version

 

[steve garwood]

Thanks for the reply ian, hope your enjoying the states whilst we have snow and ice

I think i have confused everyone with how i have explained my charging situation..

i have a split charge relay that charges as i drive (obv) and the alternator gives out a steady 14.7v continuously

I also have a 240v battery charger onboard built into the system, so when i plug it in it automatically kicks in and starts charging, thats what starts out as 13.2v @8.2 amps and the volts slowly grow over time.

RESOLUTION . was definitely the switch, no issues whatsoever today so will be upgrading all the switches to a heavy duty version

In some parts of the states it’s -40!
Over 70 people have died ?

 

[Baldmonkey]

In some parts of the states it’s -40!
Over 70 people have died ?

? thought it had cleared for them, poor bugger