How do you protect your Leisure Battery ?

[rafterys2003]

Hello again everyone

I recently bought a leisure battery for my pmup and it seemed to last a couple of weeks before i needed to charge it which was great but after only a few months of use it now will not even hold a charge for 3 days... In fact every battery Ive had has had this problem. I do leave it in the vehicle all the time (other than when i have it on charge). I understand the cold weather damages the cells or something which I'm assuming is why they keep dying but short of bringing it into the house every night, which would be annoying, im not sure what to do. Ive heard it would be too cold in a garage or shed too. So I was wondering how everybody else manages to protect their leisure batteries ?

 

[Pjj]

Not enough information about the amp hour size of your batter or how many hours per day its being used but would suggest you arnt charging it often enough and depleating it to much between charges causing the premature failure of it

 

[ched999uk]

Best practice is to charge after every day! Taking it below 12v (rested) will reduce it's capacity and kill it over a short time.

 

[Clean zero]

Always charge every night or you will have problems I have 2 130 ah energy expidition extra plus are 2 years old now operates a 9kw heater and pumps 8 hours a day am very pleased with them found Alpha batteries very helpful

 

[rafterys2003]

Not enough information about the amp hour size of your batter or how many hours per day its being used but would suggest you arnt charging it often enough and depleating it to much between charges causing the premature failure of it

It is a 12V 110AH DEEP CYCLE LEISURE BATTERY. I use it for about 4 hours per day 5 days a week. Surely charging it everyday is just silly whats the point of having such a huge powerful battery if I still have to charge it everyday ?

 

[ched999uk]

It is a 12V 110AH DEEP CYCLE LEISURE BATTERY. I use it for about 4 hours per day 5 days a week. Surely charging it everyday is just silly whats the point of having such a huge powerful battery if I still have to charge it everyday ?

A lead acid battery can only be used for half the rated amps or it's life will be severely shortened. - that's just the chemistry.
So say your pump pulls an average of 5 amps for 4 hrs = 20ampHrs. So really you can only do that for 2.5days before you are going below the 50% threshold.
So you could stretch it to charge every other day but to get the longest life out of the battery it should be charged back up asap.

If you are using it 5 days a week then I am not surprised you are killing them within a couple of months. In fact I'm surprised they are lasting that long.

 

[rafterys2003]

Best practice is to charge after every day! Taking it below 12v (rested) will reduce it's capacity and kill it over a short time.

So you're not actually supposed to let the battery drop below 12v? Hmm this may be the issue then as Ive been allowing it to drop below even 10v before charging. Wasnt aware of this I just basically waited until the pump started to slow down and struggle. So leaving it in a cold vehicle isnt actually a problem then as long as its kept over 12v ?

 

[ched999uk]

So you're not actually supposed to let the battery drop below 12v? Hmm this may be the issue then as Ive been allowing it to drop below even 10v before charging. Wasnt aware of this I just basically waited until the pump started to slow down and struggle. So leaving it in a cold vehicle isnt actually a problem then as long as its kept over 12v ?

Cold temp isn't really an issue with lead acids. Just think about car and van starter batteries, no one protects them from the cold.
Charge every other day at a minimum and you should get a couple of years out of your battery.

 

[Mattymarske]

Victron Energy M8 eyelet connector (with 30A ATO fuse) – BPC900110014

M6/M8 eyelet connector with fuse The M6/M8 eyelet connector with fuse is an accessory of the Blue Power IP65 Charger with DC connector.

batterygroup.co.uk

I have these connected to my leisure battery so can quickly and easily connect the victron blue smart charger every other night or every 3rd night if battery isn't depleted so much. Leave it in overnight and back up and running. Leisure battery is 2 years old at mo and since I've started charging overnight in situ it's lasted well. Before that I went through 3 batteries in 4 years without charging part from split charge relay. ?

 

[rafterys2003]

Cold temp isn't really an issue with lead acids. Just think about car and van starter batteries, no one protects them from the cold.
Charge every other day at a minimum and you should get a couple of years out of your battery.

Only a couple of years ? It has a 4 year warranty though what would be the point of that ? Also I still dont understand why we use these huge, heavy, expensive batteries when we still have to charge them every other day ?

 

[ched999uk]

Only a couple of years ? It has a 4 year warranty though what would be the point of that ? Also I still dont understand why we use these huge, heavy, expensive batteries when we still have to charge them every other day ?

Basically lead acids are the 'cheap' way of providing power for our pumps! Yes they are huge and heavy (they have lead in). The problem is that they can only contain a certain amount of energy (electricity). It's a bit like saying why do I have to fill my 400lts tank each day after work!

Also be aware that virtually all warranty's will only cover the battery for their intended use - leisure batteries are for leisure use i.e. caravans and motorhomes not WFP.

The alternative is a li-ion battery but that's 5 times the price, requires a special charger and they don't like the cold at all! They are lighter weight though!

If you want to know more about the technology/chemistry in lead acid batteries and their limitations I'm sure I can find you some links.

Basically lead acids are they cheapest options for us! You do have to 'maintain' them to give them the best chance for a long life! They last longest if never taken below 50% capacity and recharged as soon as possible!

Think about your van starter battery, it gives massive current for short time then the alternator recharges it asap. Leisure batteries are designed to give out a much lower charge for longish periods of time then be recharged.

 

[spruce]

So you're not actually supposed to let the battery drop below 12v? Hmm this may be the issue then as Ive been allowing it to drop below even 10v before charging. Wasnt aware of this I just basically waited until the pump started to slow down and struggle. So leaving it in a cold vehicle isnt actually a problem then as long as its kept over 12v ?

According to most caravan and motor home magazines and Vitron, a battery showing 12v after being rested for 4 hours is flat. A battery showing 12.5v is 50% charged.
When you don't charge your battery asap after use the battery is sulphating up and as this sulphation increases the capacity of the battery decreases.
Even charging a battery every night doesn't stop the sulphation process, it just slows it down. A battery wears out.
My last 110 amp leisure battery lasted just over 5 years, but I estimated its capacity had dropped to around 20% before I called it time.

 

[Pjj]

It is a 12V 110AH DEEP CYCLE LEISURE BATTERY. I use it for about 4 hours per day 5 days a week. Surely charging it everyday is just silly whats the point of having such a huge powerful battery if I still have to charge it everyday ?

It will need charging more than ones every couple of weeks 110 ah battery isn’t anything special and only has I believe 50 amps use maximum before damage will occur but @spruce is the expert in all the calculations .

 

[steve 007]

Basically lead acids are the 'cheap' way of providing power for our pumps! Yes they are huge and heavy (they have lead in). The problem is that they can only contain a certain amount of energy (electricity). It's a bit like saying why do I have to fill my 400lts tank each day after work!

Also be aware that virtually all warranty's will only cover the battery for their intended use - leisure batteries are for leisure use i.e. caravans and motorhomes not WFP.

The alternative is a li-ion battery but that's 5 times the price, requires a special charger and they don't like the cold at all! They are lighter weight though!

If you want to know more about the technology/chemistry in lead acid batteries and their limitations I'm sure I can find you some links.

Basically lead acids are they cheapest options for us! You do have to 'maintain' them to give them the best chance for a long life! They last longest if never taken below 50% capacity and recharged as soon as possible!

Think about your van starter battery, it gives massive current for short time then the alternator recharges it asap. Leisure batteries are designed to give out a much lower charge for longish periods of time then be recharged.

I built myself a lithium phosphate battery they are good for 20+ years ( it will probably outlive me) by the time you keep paying out for lead acid you could have got a lithium one. fit it and forget it I even have a app on my phone that tells me the state of charge. All built by myself its been in for 2 years now with 0 problems

 

[Pjj]

I built myself a lithium phosphate battery they are good for 20+ years ( it will probably outlive me) by the time you keep paying out for lead acid you could have got a lithium one. fit it and forget it I even have a app on my phone that tells me the state of charge. All built by myself its been in for 2 years now with 0 problems

Lithium batteries are very good but they have different issues to lead acid ones to contend with .

 

[A D]

Hello again everyone

I recently bought a leisure battery for my pmup and it seemed to last a couple of weeks before i needed to charge it which was great but after only a few months of use it now will not even hold a charge for 3 days... In fact every battery Ive had has had this problem. I do leave it in the vehicle all the time (other than when i have it on charge). I understand the cold weather damages the cells or something which I'm assuming is why they keep dying but short of bringing it into the house every night, which would be annoying, im not sure what to do. Ive heard it would be too cold in a garage or shed too. So I was wondering how everybody else manages to protect their leisure batteries ?

Maybe the charger is faulty and not charging the battery, do you have a voltmeter?

 

[ched999uk]

I built myself a lithium phosphate battery they are good for 20+ years ( it will probably outlive me) by the time you keep paying out for lead acid you could have got a lithium one. fit it and forget it I even have a app on my phone that tells me the state of charge. All built by myself its been in for 2 years now with 0 problems

Nice, do you have any specs? i.e. what cells you used and what charger, I like the idea of having voltage monitoring on my phone I do love a gadget.

 

[Mattymarske]

Nice, do you have any specs? i.e. what cells you used and what charger, I like the idea of having voltage monitoring on my phone I do love a gadget.

Victron BMV-712 (amongst others like NASA Marine BM1 BT 12) do Bluetooth battery monitors. Simple to set up the busbar and away you go all on the app on your phone. ?

 

[spruce]

Only a couple of years ? It has a 4 year warranty though what would be the point of that ? Also I still dont understand why we use these huge, heavy, expensive batteries when we still have to charge them every other day ?

We are all in the same boat battery wise. It's part of the job. Life is much easier if you can have the battery permanently in the van and plug a charger in with an extension cable.

I couldn't lift a 110amp battery in and out of the van every time I need to charge it.

The other thing is that you should never charge a battery inside the house. If something should go wrong the battery could give of a poisonous gas. Someone put up a photo of his leisure battery which had exploded. It was in his van and it blew the side of the battery out.

I believe that I wouldn't have to recharge my battery if I had a lithium battery on board as my battery to battery charger would do the job. A lithium battery will accept a higher charge rate than a lead acid battery, and this is the disadvantage of lead acid. But I couldn't justify paying £800 for a lithium battery.

 

[Clean zero]

It is a lot to pay and if something wasn’t right with it and the warranty wouldn’t cover it would be a big problem

 

[spruce]

It is a lot to pay and if something wasn’t right with it and the warranty wouldn’t cover it would be a big problem

@rafterys2003

Battery Warranty - What is Covered?

Your new battery comes with a manufactiuers warranty. Here we explain what is and what is not covered.

www.tayna.co.uk

General wear and tear​

When a battery is charged and discharged, material from the battery plates (active mass) is in motion, through the electromechanical reaction that produces electricity. Every time a battery goes through a charge-discharge cycle, a small amount of this active mass is lost from the plates. Due to so many factors impacting on the life of a battery, it is impossible to stipulate a minimum or maximum life expectancy.
Every battery has a finite number of cycles that it can go through before it loses its active mass, and in turn, its capacity. Vehicles with high usage, such as buses, taxis and trucks, will often put a battery through this finite number of cycles over a much shorter amount of time, causing a battery to show the above symptoms after only a couple of years. This is not a manufacturing fault.
When a battery is subject to a deep discharge, and/or a rapid rate of recharge, the above process is accelerated. A battery that is deep discharged regularly, or is often discharged below 50% (12.1v) in the case of leisure batteries, will rapidly lose its active mass, and capacity. An example of this is the use of a leisure battery for running window cleaning water pumps. The loss of active mass, and therefore capacity, due to over/excessive cycling is not a manufacturing fault.

BTW, we aren't the only industry to not be covered or restricted by battery warranties. Taxis and parcel delivery vehicles are another group, for example.