New business: Delivery only Vs RO/DI System.

[BenW3]

Hi All,

I have been spending days evaluating the many systems out there for 500l RO/DI systems or close to that volume from Pure2O, Facelift, X-Line, PureFreedom, Grippatank, Brodex... basically as many as I could find. The problem is that there is nothing you can compare like for like. Either filtration is different, some offer extras like reels, extra filtration, stainless steel filters, etc. Its really hard for a guy starting a new business to compare systems and costs. I just dont know which system to go for. And the costs vary massively. But today I discovered there's a spotless water less than a mile from my house. So now I'm thinking king of getting a delivery only system and using the extra cash I saved on buying a heating system and gutter vac. Especially as were going into winter. What do you guys think? A full tank of spotless water will cost me £28 which means the first house covers the cost of my days water every day. As a new ie, I'm thinking this is a good way to go. I can work up to a full ro/di system. But to begin with a delivery only system with a heater for winter should go well. Aside from gutter vac I can also spend my budget on roof and solar panel cleaning. Do you think this is a good plan? Should I consider any other services like soft washing? What would generate the most revenue?

 

[Part Timer]

As a newbie it is best to save money where you can to help to pay bills if it's a slow start. On our travels we use Spotless but occasionally a site can be down for maintenance, usually fixed within 24 hours.
Have you not got room in your garage, or shed, to produce pure as this is a much cheaper, easier, and quicker way to produce pure.

 

[spruce]

Hi All,

I have been spending days evaluating the many systems out there for 500l RO/DI systems or close to that volume from Pure2O, Facelift, X-Line, PureFreedom, Grippatank, Brodex... basically as many as I could find. The problem is that there is nothing you can compare like for like. Either filtration is different, some offer extras like reels, extra filtration, stainless steel filters, etc. Its really hard for a guy starting a new business to compare systems and costs. I just dont know which system to go for. And the costs vary massively. But today I discovered there's a spotless water less than a mile from my house. So now I'm thinking king of getting a delivery only system and using the extra cash I saved on buying a heating system and gutter vac. Especially as were going into winter. What do you guys think? A full tank of spotless water will cost me £28 which means the first house covers the cost of my days water every day. As a new ie, I'm thinking this is a good way to go. I can work up to a full ro/di system. But to begin with a delivery only system with a heater for winter should go well. Aside from gutter vac I can also spend my budget on roof and solar panel cleaning. Do you think this is a good plan? Should I consider any other services like soft washing? What would generate the most revenue?

You sound as though you want to be all things to everybody.

Imho you need to decide your core business and focus on that.
If it's window cleaning then develop your customer base around that. By the time you get going it will be winter and gutter clearing will be difficult as the contents will be frozen.

You don't need hot water to begin with.
You can add that at a later date once you become established. An oil heater with frost protection will protect your system in the van during winter.

Spotless is a good source of water to begin with. But as @Part Timer says, if you have a garage, a drain, water and electricity, then it's cheaper to make your own.

You don't say where your area is. Up north we have no chance of getting prices for window cleans some do in the south. At best, an average 3 bed semi is £10, £12 if we are fortunate.

Imho a system from Purefreedom is more than adequate. Poles from Gardiner pole systems and whatever hose reel will work for you. Then canvass like crazy.

 

[ched999uk]

Personally I would try and find space to produce your own pure as Spotless can close a site if they don't think it's profitable!
I would also say concentrate on window cleaning at first as you want regular customers that repeat as that's 'reliable' income! Gutter, solar panel, roof cleaning are all one offs - so a nice bit of money but only once.
As for a heater - again you don't need one but if you can't park on your drive to get a mains cable to run an oil rad and charge your battery then it could be handy but then how will you charge the battery overnight and run a diesel heater without the battery?

The other thing to consider is if you are thinking of adding services then you can plan the space in the van for the kit, plan to not get too many leaflets advertising just window cleaning at the start otherwise you could be stuck with leaflets that don't advertise your full range of services. What ever you do keep in mind the extra services and don't do something to box yourself in a corner.

I assume that you have a van in mind that's capable of carrying £28 worth of water - i.e. appropriate pay load for tank, frame, reel, battery, fuel, driver and water as at 4p per litre of water (I think that's about spotless's rate?) then that's about 700litres of water a day!!! So you will need a payload well over 1000kg more like 1200kg! Do you think 1 person will need 700lts per day?

 

[Part Timer]

at 4p per litre of water (I think that's about spotless's rate?)

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Spotless have upped their prices. Most sites are now 3.9p. + VAT, per litre and some of the newer, faster flow, sites are more expensive. With him having W3 in his name I'm assuming that's West London, Wembley area so that will be 3.9p + VAT, or it was last time I was there.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Pure2O will price match other companies. So find the cheapest quote you can then take it to them. Just something that might help ?

 

[BenW3]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. You make some good points and you are probably right that I am trying to be all things to everyone. I figured that the more services I offer then I have alternative sources of income to fall on in case the window cleaning round hits a slump for any reason. Maybe it is best to just focus on the core business in the beginning and add extras as I make enough money to add them as I grow. The cost of heating units is bloody expensive and I was reading on this forum yesterday that they help in areas like the coast but most people get on fine without it.

700 litres is also a massive tank for one person but I was thinking more about futureproofing there so i don't have to increase the unit a couple of years down the line. Initially I reckon a 300 litre system will do me fine. I had a look on the Pure20 site earlier and they have a refurbished Pro5 300l for 3k fitted but then poles, reels, hoses and all that will need to be added. The Pure Freedom equivalent with everything is about the same money, so that seems to be the way to go starting out.

Thanks again fellas, it is good to have level heads to ask these things and keep me grounded. It's very easy to runaway in the excitement of getting going.

 

[Part Timer]

700 litres is also a massive tank for one person

That would last me, on commercial work, about 6 hours. You will struggle to make 300 litres last you a full day on residential. You are using Spotless so won't lose much time but if you are buying a van it will pay you to get the biggest tank you can. You don't need to fill it on the early quiet days.

 

[RickyG]

1 months' worth of spotless is gonna run up a big ol bill at say £20 a day evened out, might be better off getting an RO setup & IBC tank

 

[Pjj]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. You make some good points and you are probably right that I am trying to be all things to everyone. I figured that the more services I offer then I have alternative sources of income to fall on in case the window cleaning round hits a slump for any reason. Maybe it is best to just focus on the core business in the beginning and add extras as I make enough money to add them as I grow. The cost of heating units is bloody expensive and I was reading on this forum yesterday that they help in areas like the coast but most people get on fine without it.

700 litres is also a massive tank for one person but I was thinking more about futureproofing there so i don't have to increase the unit a couple of years down the line. Initially I reckon a 300 litre system will do me fine. I had a look on the Pure20 site earlier and they have a refurbished Pro5 300l for 3k fitted but then poles, reels, hoses and all that will need to be added. The Pure Freedom equivalent with everything is about the same money, so that seems to be the way to go starting out.

Thanks again fellas, it is good to have level heads to ask these things and keep me grounded. It's very easy to runaway in the excitement of getting going.

You don't have to fill the tank if you are only doing a small amount of work, just put in what you will need .

 

[Ocahan01]

That would last me, on commercial work, about 6 hours. You will struggle to make 300 litres last you a full day on residential. You are using Spotless so won't lose much time but if you are buying a van it will pay you to get the biggest tank you can. You don't need to fill it on the early quiet days.

Yeah I agree that 300 is probably not enough to put it a good days work. I’d go 350 or 400 at a minimum if it’s a small van.
If you get a bigger van then maybe a 500.
This will ensure a good paying day. As the saying goes… “your better looking at it than looking for it “

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Also remember, it can be a hassle when the tank runs dry or is almost empty. I have a 500l but always try to avoid running it down below 100l because it can be a pain. So bigger (safely) is better.

 

[Part Timer]

Also remember, it can be a hassle when the tank runs dry or is almost empty. I have a 500l but always try to avoid running it down below 100l because it can be a pain. So bigger (safely) is better.

If you do get low and have to drive to another job, turn the tank outlet tap off. This will prevent water sloshing around and air getting into the system.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

If you do get low and have to drive to another job, turn the tank outlet tap off. This will prevent water sloshing around and air getting into the system.

Tank doesn't have a outlet control I’m afraid, just straight into the pump. I know how to suck it clear, just can’t imagine what customers must think ??

 

[scottish cleaning service]

You can carry 25l drums of pure if you need to top up. Starting as a Trad window cleaner is as cheap as chips but the opposite when one wants to invest in a van system.

 

[BenW3]

You can carry 25l drums of pure if you need to top up. Starting as a Trad window cleaner is as cheap as chips but the opposite when one wants to invest in a van system.

when I first started 20 odd years ago I began doing the traditional method and eventually got a wfp trolley system. It's been a big gap until now when I'm starting again from scratch but all the other window cleaners in the area are using wfp, it will be impossible to compete with that without doing the same. From all the advice I have had on this thread I think I need to go with a 500l ro/di system. After doing few weeks of research I am leaning to either a waterworks, facelift or xline system. They seem to be fairly priced and decent quality. I'm leaning toward the x line or waterworks. It's very difficult to compare because there are so many systems but none are like for like. You see a system that looks great value but it doesn't include the necessities. Anyhow I'm sure I'll figure it out. It all hinges on getting a startup loan, so I'm trying to find the right system to put the cost into my business plan. I got laid off in March so I am trying to nail everything so I have the best chance of getting a loan and putting this together. It may be that I get enough to put down deposits on the gear and lease it rather than buying it outright. It just depends on what I can swing at this stage.

 

[spruce]

when I first started 20 odd years ago I began doing the traditional method and eventually got a wfp trolley system. It's been a big gap until now when I'm starting again from scratch but all the other window cleaners in the area are using wfp, it will be impossible to compete with that without doing the same. From all the advice I have had on this thread I think I need to go with a 500l ro/di system. After doing few weeks of research I am leaning to either a waterworks, facelift or xline system. They seem to be fairly priced and decent quality. I'm leaning toward the x line or waterworks. It's very difficult to compare because there are so many systems but none are like for like. You see a system that looks great value but it doesn't include the necessities. Anyhow I'm sure I'll figure it out. It all hinges on getting a startup loan, so I'm trying to find the right system to put the cost into my business plan. I got laid off in March so I am trying to nail everything so I have the best chance of getting a loan and putting this together. It may be that I get enough to put down deposits on the gear and lease it rather than buying it outright. It just depends on what I can swing at this stage.

If we had known you were already experienced with trad window cleaning and using a wfp trolley, then my first response would have been different. I took it that you were a total newbie looking to start a new business without any experience. You will know how to canvass for custom and also filter water using an r/o. This isn't new to you, as you have done it before, albeit in a 'previous life.'
My suggestion to use a Purefreedom system still stands, as they are crash tested when fitted correctly. Not sure if Xline tanks are.

 

[doug atkinson]

Producing your own water is a no brainer as is cost effective. Purchasing a system I would advise purchasing from wherever is closest to you.

I know if people who have purchased systems from suppliers 300 miles away then have to travel back to get in sorted.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Producing your own water is a no brainer as is cost effective. Purchasing a system I would advise purchasing from wherever is closest to you.

I know if people who have purchased systems from suppliers 300 miles away then have to travel back to get in sorted.

The problem with this though is not everyone is close. I’m in Glasgow and there are no fitters here, not since you stopped doing it. Window Cleaning Warehouse do fit in Liverpool I think but then it’s a non crash tested system.
Saying that, I think Ionics have a fitter in Newcastle. But that’s still a half a day’s journey at least.

 

[Part Timer]

The problem with this though is not everyone is close. I’m in Glasgow and there are no fitters here, not since you stopped doing it. Window Cleaning Warehouse do fit in Liverpool I think but then it’s a non crash tested system.
Saying that, I think Ionics have a fitter in Newcastle. But that’s still a half a day’s journey at least.

KTD Dunston, @Iron Giant is currently using them

 

[Iron Giant]

KTD Dunston, @Iron Giant is currently using them

Not now as the first first date they could offer me was the 23rd of October, since then I've spoke to the owner of my local garage who I've used for years he said they could fit it,

After the other post and doing research KTD weren't going to do anything different than my local garage, my conclusion is wfp system fitters are having us over more so when it comes to a system like mine which needs just bolting in properly by someone who knows what they are doing, £400 is what WCW charge and KTD and Purefreedom wanted £600 daylight robbery in my opinion,

I found someone else down Leeds who does driveway fitting and estimated £250 but without any reviews or been able to find out very much about him at all,

I've decided to go with my local garage as I know and trust the owner and he is only going to charge me £90 to bolt the tank in based on an estimated time, he is snowed under with work and has lads on holiday so just need to wait around 2 weeks.