Quote advice

[scottish cleaning service]

Here is an example of my day today and it highlights the problems you get and highlights why you have to be realistic with what’s possible as things regularly don't go to plan. Three of the jobs are due to be increased in total about £12 to £15.



Job 1 £20 – arrive 13:25

3 bed 1950’s semi with small conservatory – Relatively straight forward, slightly under-priced. Finish at 13:55, car gets in the way when trying to turn van around, 1 minute delay.

Job 2 £18 – on same road, under priced overdue an increase, park van 13:58.

3 bed semi with extended back, same as one above but velux windows and no conservatory. Old dear from across the road who I clean who always tries it on saying she hasn’t got any money, comes out claiming the same. 1 minute delay, she then comes back out and when I start the job opposite hers and says she has got the money… blah blah blah another 1 to 2 minute delay. Job itself fine, do it without problems.

Job 3 £20 - opposite (old dear), wheel the trolley over at 14:18.

Crack on, she has already given me the money. She comes to the door several times saying she’s thinking of going for a walk… blah blah blah, it is a distraction but I carry on, maybe slightly knocked me off my rhythm. Finish job then as I’m packing up she comes to the door, starts complaining that water is on the inside of the door, because of all the comings and goings she had not closed the door properly and I didn’t check (distracted), a pool of water is on the inside of the porch carpet, I go over with a microfibre and soak it up while listening to her talking about getting a new carpet (it was a carpet small section over a tiled floor, the carpet was filthy full of bits). I soak up the excess and explain that the rest will just dry off (it was only two puddles about 3 inch by 4 inch on the very edge next to the door), she says don’t worry but keeps going on and on... eventually get away, 3 to 4 minute delay.

Job 4 £30 – next road, on a quite long road on the way to other jobs. Park van 14:48.

1920’s Victorian styal semi. Usually straight forward, today they had workmen there, one doing the garden at the back, one doing the drive at the front, car in front of house in the way, work van in the way, makes it harder to clean the front windows, knocked slightly off the rhythm as a result. Generally get through it ok only for the workmen (both foreign) to start asking me questions about the trolley, this then leads to one of them saying that he’s giving up gardening and wants to do drive way cleaning, pulls out his phone and starts showing me pictures of the kit he is interested in getting. Starts telling me you can make £500 per day… at least 5 minute delay and probably additional 2 minutes because of vehicles in the way. Finish back in van for 15:25

Job 5 £30 – other side of village several roads away. Slightly underpriced. Arrive 15:29

For once there is only one car on the drive which means I get the front done quick. Do the back relatively ok but on finishing owner comes out chatting. 2 to 3 minute delay. Finish 16:06

Job 6 £20 – 1950’s semi, on the next road about 30 houses away. Park van 16:08

Straight forward, car in way of front windows but generally ok, just got to be careful so slows me down slightly. Finish 16:30.

Job 7 and 8 £20 + £20 – Arrive 16:38 1960’s 3 bed council houses both next door to each other but a long way from job 6, in pretty much the next town at least 2 miles away. Both underpriced as due an increase, priced in June 2020 and not increased since.

Both retired, both always chatting, make me brews etc. Job 7 I have a brew and biscuits and and done onto job 8 for 17:08. Job 8 (next door) get through it without problems, finish for the day at 17:28.


Total time from start of job 1 to finish of job 8 = 4 hours 3 minutes



Total water used = 225 litres
Total petrol cost = about £7
Days turnover = £178

Hourly rate = £44

Delays =
car in way - 1 minute
Old dear - 6 minutes
Gardener / workmen - 7 minutes
Job 5 chat – 2 minutes

Total delays = 16 minutes (on the lesser estimate)

Travel between jobs = 19 minutes.

Most old retired folk are lonely so when they see fresh ears they jump aboard.

 

[Chris34]

Why so obsessed with time?

Because time = money and the post is about how much to charge and how long to expect to clean that house.

Anyway my posts are there to help the op and point out that you established businesses are not factually correct. Yes you might have successful earnings but outright stating that people like me have got it all wrong... well I haven't. If you charge more you need less customers to achieve a good wage, it's less customers to manage, less customers moving house, less chance of delays / problems and you're not competing in a race to the bottom with established window cleaners.

Anyway, I'm sure the op can see both sides of the coin very clearly and any new starters can see that there are different standards of work, different prices per area, different business models... and they can then make an informed decision about what business model suits themselves and what they want.

 

[ched999uk]

Here is an example of my day today and it highlights the problems you get and highlights why you have to be realistic with what’s possible as things regularly don't go to plan. Three of the jobs are due to be increased in total about £12 to £15.

Total time from start of job 1 to finish of job 8 = 4 hours 3 minutes

Hourly rate = £44

Delays =
car in way - 1 minute
Old dear - 6 minutes
Gardener / workmen - 7 minutes
Job 5 chat – 2 minutes

Total delays = 16 minutes (on the lesser estimate)

Travel between jobs = 19 minutes.

It's great to see you posting your real world timings - well done. Remember I have only been going just under a year, but those timings don't look that bad to me. One thing I did notice was you mentioned 'trolley'. Are you using a trolley system to clean with? Only reason I ask is that I started out with Gardiners back pack on a trolley and it was slow, not much flow, topping up with pure for each job, gathering up hose, getting it in and out of car all took significant time. Now I have a van mount it's so much quicker just getting started and packing up. I bet with a van mount you would save 20% of your time.

In my opinion speed is partly experience but also partly about the need to get the work done (to a good standard) when you get busier.

Don't get wound up by people who do a quicker job, we all work the way we have evolved to work, not in human evolution terms but just tweaked our methods in a way that suits us. There are people here who time their jobs to the second from pulling up to pulling away and try and analyse every step and brush stroke they make - that works for them.
There is no point anyone arguing about speed, prices working practices but having discussions about these things really helps a lot of people. There will be people slower than you (me for example) and people quicker than you but I for one like to read about all levels of working as there is always the possibility to learn stuff I didn't know. Like one little tip I saw a while back about having your van key on a lanyard around your neck. That way get out of van put lanyard on, lock front doors, walk round back, unlock rear doors, get gloves on kit out, lock rear doors, etc but in winter getting keys out of a pocket with thick gloves on just slows things down. It had sped me up just a little.
Maybe the more we all share little tip or customs and practices will help us all?

 

[Pjj]

Here is an example of my day today and it highlights the problems you get and highlights why you have to be realistic with what’s possible as things regularly don't go to plan. Three of the jobs are due to be increased in total about £12 to £15.



Job 1 £20 – arrive 13:25

3 bed 1950’s semi with small conservatory – Relatively straight forward, slightly under-priced. Finish at 13:55, car gets in the way when trying to turn van around, 1 minute delay.

Job 2 £18 – on same road, under priced overdue an increase, park van 13:58.

3 bed semi with extended back, same as one above but velux windows and no conservatory. Old dear from across the road who I clean who always tries it on saying she hasn’t got any money, comes out claiming the same. 1 minute delay, she then comes back out and when I start the job opposite hers and says she has got the money… blah blah blah another 1 to 2 minute delay. Job itself fine, do it without problems.

Job 3 £20 - opposite (old dear), wheel the trolley over at 14:18.

Crack on, she has already given me the money. She comes to the door several times saying she’s thinking of going for a walk… blah blah blah, it is a distraction but I carry on, maybe slightly knocked me off my rhythm. Finish job then as I’m packing up she comes to the door, starts complaining that water is on the inside of the door, because of all the comings and goings she had not closed the door properly and I didn’t check (distracted), a pool of water is on the inside of the porch carpet, I go over with a microfibre and soak it up while listening to her talking about getting a new carpet (it was a carpet small section over a tiled floor, the carpet was filthy full of bits). I soak up the excess and explain that the rest will just dry off (it was only two puddles about 3 inch by 4 inch on the very edge next to the door), she says don’t worry but keeps going on and on... eventually get away, 3 to 4 minute delay.

Job 4 £30 – next road, on a quite long road on the way to other jobs. Park van 14:48.

1920’s Victorian styal semi. Usually straight forward, today they had workmen there, one doing the garden at the back, one doing the drive at the front, car in front of house in the way, work van in the way, makes it harder to clean the front windows, knocked slightly off the rhythm as a result. Generally get through it ok only for the workmen (both foreign) to start asking me questions about the trolley, this then leads to one of them saying that he’s giving up gardening and wants to do drive way cleaning, pulls out his phone and starts showing me pictures of the kit he is interested in getting. Starts telling me you can make £500 per day… at least 5 minute delay and probably additional 2 minutes because of vehicles in the way. Finish back in van for 15:25

Job 5 £30 – other side of village several roads away. Slightly underpriced. Arrive 15:29

For once there is only one car on the drive which means I get the front done quick. Do the back relatively ok but on finishing owner comes out chatting. 2 to 3 minute delay. Finish 16:06

Job 6 £20 – 1950’s semi, on the next road about 30 houses away. Park van 16:08

Straight forward, car in way of front windows but generally ok, just got to be careful so slows me down slightly. Finish 16:30.

Job 7 and 8 £20 + £20 – Arrive 16:38 1960’s 3 bed council houses both next door to each other but a long way from job 6, in pretty much the next town at least 2 miles away. Both underpriced as due an increase, priced in June 2020 and not increased since.

Both retired, both always chatting, make me brews etc. Job 7 I have a brew and biscuits and and done onto job 8 for 17:08. Job 8 (next door) get through it without problems, finish for the day at 17:28.


Total time from start of job 1 to finish of job 8 = 4 hours 3 minutes



Total water used = 225 litres
Total petrol cost = about £7
Days turnover = £178

Hourly rate = £44

Delays =
car in way - 1 minute
Old dear - 6 minutes
Gardener / workmen - 7 minutes
Job 5 chat – 2 minutes

Total delays = 16 minutes (on the lesser estimate)

Travel between jobs = 19 minutes.

There’s your problem straight away using a trolly takes ages getting it in and out of the van changing re filling barrels, van mount and fixed reels we pull up and with in 10 seconds the pole is on the windows

 

[Part Timer]

Anyway my posts are there to help the op and point out that you established businesses are not factually correct. Yes you might have successful earnings but outright stating that people like me have got it all wrong... well I haven't. If you charge more you need less customers to achieve a good wage, it's less customers to manage, less customers moving house, less chance of delays / problems and you're not competing in a race to the bottom with established window cleaners.

It was you that started questioning long established and profitable people and rightly attracted criticism for doing so.
Your method might work for you but as an overall business model won't work for others. There has been loads of newbies that have used sky-high price advice on here and disappeared after 3 - 6 months. The advice the established have given is tried and tested and the only difference being different area pricing.
No established cleaners are in a race to the bottom and the fact they spend their precious rest time trying to help people should be appreciated and not criticised.
You say you've been in the cleaning business for 20 years, I have actually been in the cleaning business for 11 and have ran this business for 7, the initial 4 years I allowed others to set it up. I'm not going to say what the company turns over but I'd guess it's substantially more than yours so you stick to your method and I'll stick to mine.

 

[JEM]

If that house was in my area that would be £30 just for the house, with the conny sides another £15
I do one that is similar for £45 and I think he got a bargain when he said his previous windy who has gone awol only charged £35 but I stuck to my guns

I'm slow so does take me a good 1hr tbh must work faster!

 

[Chris34]

It's great to see you posting your real world timings - well done. Remember I have only been going just under a year, but those timings don't look that bad to me. One thing I did notice was you mentioned 'trolley'. Are you using a trolley system to clean with? Only reason I ask is that I started out with Gardiners back pack on a trolley and it was slow, not much flow, topping up with pure for each job, gathering up hose, getting it in and out of car all took significant time. Now I have a van mount it's so much quicker just getting started and packing up. I bet with a van mount you would save 20% of your time.

In my opinion speed is partly experience but also partly about the need to get the work done (to a good standard) when you get busier.

Don't get wound up by people who do a quicker job, we all work the way we have evolved to work, not in human evolution terms but just tweaked our methods in a way that suits us. There are people here who time their jobs to the second from pulling up to pulling away and try and analyse every step and brush stroke they make - that works for them.
There is no point anyone arguing about speed, prices working practices but having discussions about these things really helps a lot of people. There will be people slower than you (me for example) and people quicker than you but I for one like to read about all levels of working as there is always the possibility to learn stuff I didn't know. Like one little tip I saw a while back about having your van key on a lanyard around your neck. That way get out of van put lanyard on, lock front doors, walk round back, unlock rear doors, get gloves on kit out, lock rear doors, etc but in winter getting keys out of a pocket with thick gloves on just slows things down. It had sped me up just a little.
Maybe the more we all share little tip or customs and practices will help us all?

Yeah, I don't get upset about these things, I'm just answering questions and it's more for the benefit of others new to the game like yourself, as when I see that somethings factually incorrect I have to point it out.

There are no hard and fast rules about how to run a business and I can assure you that I'm one of the fastest if not the fastest cleaners out there. The reason I can't do the houses as fast as some is because of how thorough I am with the work and without wishing to cause upset there is a difference between peoples standards of work. Take Dave B for example, he has openly said in the past that he doesn't bother scrubbing off snail trails as he believes they disappear when the windows dry, well that's his opinion but I disagree with that and as such I scrub them off which takes longer to do, can be there for ages on really bad windows. But that's just one example of one persons standards vrs another.

Yes kit probably will speed the work up, I'm not sure about reels etc as I'm pretty quick with moving the trolley in and out the van, it probably does add 3 minutes including adjustments around the house, but then I'd expect that reeling a hose in would take a bit of time and trying to get rid of snags around the house, yes it would be quicker but it's not going to be the full 3 minutes quicker. A larger brush, hot water... all would speed up work but with hot water comes increased costs... all things that can be considered.

A word on trolleys, I use the nano from pure freedom with barrels ready filled in the back. It's pretty quick to swap the barrels over. If I was having to refill into a backpack I think it would add a lot more time on.

But yeah, I'm glad you appreciate the breakdown of my work Ched as it's people like yourself that I know should be of benefit as it would have benefitted me when I was starting.

 

[Chris34]

It was you that started questioning long established and profitable people and rightly attracted criticism for doing so.
Your method might work for you but as an overall business model won't work for others. There has been loads of newbies that have used sky-high price advice on here and disappeared after 3 - 6 months. The advice the established have given is tried and tested and the only difference being different area pricing.
No established cleaners are in a race to the bottom and the fact they spend their precious rest time trying to help people should be appreciated and not criticised.
You say you've been in the cleaning business for 20 years, I have actually been in the cleaning business for 11 and have ran this business for 7, the initial 4 years I allowed others to set it up. I'm not going to say what the company turns over but I'd guess it's substantially more than yours so you stick to your method and I'll stick to mine.

It was yourself who started spouting off on one and being rude to newbies opinions. It was yourself who was personally trying to mock me throughout this thread and tried to discredit my method. All I have done is question things that are factually incorrect.

I agree you will have a bigger turnover than me, I've got a lot of catching up to do. I've come from nothing and I'm working my way up, 3 years ago I was on minimum wage cleaning in office jobs cleaning around 60 toilets a day, 300 desks a day, over a hundred bins emptied a day. You on the other hand have come from a higher starting point, it's going to be easier if you have been fortunate enough to come from a family who have been in business successfully for years.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Why so obsessed with time?

I ask my lawyer that all the time. He replied I charge by the minute.?

 

[Part Timer]

It was yourself who started spouting off on one and being rude to newbies opinions. It was yourself who was personally trying to mock me throughout this thread and tried to discredit my method. All I have done is question things that are factually incorrect.

I agree you will have a bigger turnover than me, I've got a lot of catching up to do. I've come from nothing and I'm working my way up, 3 years ago I was on minimum wage cleaning in office jobs cleaning around 60 toilets a day, 300 desks a day, over a hundred bins emptied a day. You on the other hand have come from a higher starting point, it's going to be easier if you have been fortunate enough to come from a family who have been in business successfully for years.

The OP asked if it was a typo and laughed, which in my book is being rude, so I replied but was not rude in my reply. Then you questioned my standards and called me a liar, I quote.

"Personally I don't believe it's possible to do a proper job on that in 20 minutes let alone 3 in an hour, I'd have to see proof to believe it."

Sorry if you thought I was mocking you I was only being factual. As for me being fortunate, working all your school holidays, from the age of 11 doing jobs men did, working 60 to 70 hours a week from leaving school for 20+ years and never having a 2 week holiday till I was nearly 35 is why I was "fortunate" to have a good starting point. Not many people are fortunate to have any easy ride through life and I promise you mine's been far from easy. I can't however prove any of the above so it's probably bull

 

[Dave B]

Yeah, I don't get upset about these things, I'm just answering questions and it's more for the benefit of others new to the game like yourself, as when I see that somethings factually incorrect I have to point it out.

There are no hard and fast rules about how to run a business and I can assure you that I'm one of the fastest if not the fastest cleaners out there. The reason I can't do the houses as fast as some is because of how thorough I am with the work and without wishing to cause upset there is a difference between peoples standards of work. Take Dave B for example, he has openly said in the past that he doesn't bother scrubbing off snail trails as he believes they disappear when the windows dry, well that's his opinion but I disagree with that and as such I scrub them off which takes longer to do, can be there for ages on really bad windows. But that's just one example of one persons standards vrs another.

Yes kit probably will speed the work up, I'm not sure about reels etc as I'm pretty quick with moving the trolley in and out the van, it probably does add 3 minutes including adjustments around the house, but then I'd expect that reeling a hose in would take a bit of time and trying to get rid of snags around the house, yes it would be quicker but it's not going to be the full 3 minutes quicker. A larger brush, hot water... all would speed up work but with hot water comes increased costs... all things that can be considered.

A word on trolleys, I use the nano from pure freedom with barrels ready filled in the back. It's pretty quick to swap the barrels over. If I was having to refill into a backpack I think it would add a lot more time on.

But yeah, I'm glad you appreciate the breakdown of my work Ched as it's people like yourself that I know should be of benefit as it would have benefitted me when I was starting.

So what is “factually incorrect “ then
You can’t call us all liars just because you work in a different way.
Please expand on this rather than insulting those of us who have been in the game for years
I’ve been in this game since 1991 after 3 years in the army and not done anything else really so can’t tell me I’m doing it wrong?

 

[steve garwood]

So what is “factually incorrect “ then
You can’t call us all liars just because you work in a different way.
Please expand on this rather than insulting those of us who have been in the game for years
I’ve been in this game since 1991 after 3 years in the army and not done anything else really so can’t tell me I’m doing it wrong?

You have done other things. I remember you saying you was a welder and did that dodgy job on that famous ship ?

 

[Pjj]

So what is “factually incorrect “ then
You can’t call us all liars just because you work in a different way.
Please expand on this rather than insulting those of us who have been in the game for years
I’ve been in this game since 1991 after 3 years in the army and not done anything else really so can’t tell me I’m doing it wrong?

Apparently you do an inferior job you don’t remove snail trails ???????

 

[Chris34]

So what is “factually incorrect “ then
You can’t call us all liars just because you work in a different way.
Please expand on this rather than insulting those of us who have been in the game for years
I’ve been in this game since 1991 after 3 years in the army and not done anything else really so can’t tell me I’m doing it wrong?

Without wishing to drag this out any more than it has to be, but you did ask me to expand so I will.

The general opinion is that if you price higher you won't get the work and you will struggle. Your idea and others is to price lower, get more customers and do more and because you're doing more you earn more. From my own experience you can comfortably price higher and make it work. I might not be earning mega money but it's ticking along nicely and I'm not far off where I would like to be.

You say 'Chris34 you just don't get it...', that's incorrect, I do get it. You can price lower get more customers work faster, drop your standards and achieve a good hourly rate. But you can also do it my way, price higher work to a higher standard and achieve a good hourly rate. I prefer my way as it suits me, less customers to manage, less costs, less hassle.

I'm not saying you or part timer or anyone else are doing it wrong. I'm saying your advice to new starters is factually wrong. There are multiple strategies you can use and multiple pricing strategies, the idea that if you don't price cheap you won't get to where you are or part timer is , is factually wrong.

I'm in year 3 and not far off hitting my goals and that's pricing higher than the competition, a lot higher in some cases. Many of the early jobs I took on my price was 3 times higher than the last window cleaner. So you can do it even when you're starting out, but I wouldn't mention anything about starting out to the customers, when they asked me I just said I'd been in the cleaning industry for years (didn't lie, just didn't answer the question directly).

Anyway I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. No disrespect to yourself or Part Timer or anyone else, I've learned loads on here from everyone, I'm just passing what I've learned from my own experience on, whether people agree or disagree I'm not too fussed but if it helps people make decisions on their own businesses then it's worth it.

 

[steve garwood]

Without wishing to drag this out any more than it has to be, but you did ask me to expand so I will.

The general opinion is that if you price higher you won't get the work and you will struggle. Your idea and others is to price lower, get more customers and do more and because you're doing more you earn more. From my own experience you can comfortably price higher and make it work. I might not be earning mega money but it's ticking along nicely and I'm not far off where I would like to be.

You say 'Chris34 you just don't get it...', that's incorrect, I do get it. You can price lower get more customers work faster, drop your standards and achieve a good hourly rate. But you can also do it my way, price higher work to a higher standard and achieve a good hourly rate. I prefer my way as it suits me, less customers to manage, less costs, less hassle.

I'm not saying you or part timer or anyone else are doing it wrong. I'm saying your advice to new starters is factually wrong. There are multiple strategies you can use and multiple pricing strategies, the idea that if you don't price cheap you won't get to where you are or part timer is , is factually wrong.

I'm in year 3 and not far off hitting my goals and that's pricing higher than the competition, a lot higher in some cases. Many of the early jobs I took on my price was 3 times higher than the last window cleaner. So you can do it even when you're starting out, but I wouldn't mention anything about starting out to the customers, when they asked me I just said I'd been in the cleaning industry for years (didn't lie, just didn't answer the question directly).

Anyway I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. No disrespect to yourself or Part Timer or anyone else, I've learned loads on here from everyone, I'm just passing what I've learned from my own experience on, whether people agree or disagree I'm not too fussed but if it helps people make decisions on their own businesses then it's worth it.

So what you trying to say? ??

 

[scottish cleaning service]

There's 3 markets or 4 if you count commercial. Low price work, usually council, housing association work. Middle market as I call it, houses that are bought below the price of £400k. Then there is high price market Very large houses with usually high income owners. I don't touch the very large houses because I think they can become stressful. I stick to the low and middle price work but here's the thing. Everything is fine when the economy is doing well but when it's not folk want to cut costs. You usually find the high and commercial cut back and the companies losing out begin to look for other work. Because the low and middle just jogs along they begin to target those areas or their employees get laid off and begin to work for themselves and target those areas. I have found any work is better than no work. I worked for Balfour Beatty in the late 80's and we were building Airports, Hospitals, community centres, Schools and Motorways. Then the recession hit and they were building petrol stations and renovating pubs. I asked the boss what was going on and he said in a recession we build anything because very little big projects and too many construction companies chasing them cutting their prices. So expect more competition coming onto our market pretty soon. But if you have built up a relationship with your customers you will be fine. A few months ago an old lady customer told me to mind my own business but I always have a bit of banter with her. This week she gave me the go ahead to PW her slabs front and back. I'm lucky I'm not thick skinned or I wouldn't have went back and lost two jobs. This is where one's personality makes a big difference. ?

 

[Dave B]

So what you trying to say? ??

That we all do a lash up job for cheap