Is it worth starting up a SME window cleaning business

Just want to see weather it’s worth me putting in 40 k on vans and staff etc and canvassing 

in merseyside area 

is it is it worth getting into 

the reason for the question is I have a autistic little boy who I may need to go to at the drop of a hat 

plus I also have a blind 11 month old with several disabilities 

so so I would appreciate any advice 

thanks in advance 

40k is a lot of money and big leap of faith on an industry, I assume you know very little about. I would recommend you do some research within your area, your area maybe saturated with cleaners, or you could very well strike lucky, you will need between 3-400 regular jobs and this will take some doing, plus how can you put some one in a van if you can't train them because your new to the industry 

Was over merseyside way about a year ago on personal business not business related, and got talking to a wfp windie operating on a plush estate.Good van setup working with an assistant and making serious money apparently. Got a feeling that it would be hard getting a foot hold there (not as I thought about it, not my part of the country) due to a lot of windies there would "protect their turf" if you know what I mean due to the earnings they are achieving. That was my impression from the conversation.

Iron Giant said:

40k is a lot of money and big leap of faith on an industry, I assume you know very little about. I would recommend you do some research within your area, your area maybe saturated with cleaners, or you could very well strike lucky, you will need between 3-400 regular jobs and this will take some doing, plus how can you put some one in a van if you can't train them because your new to the industry 

Click to expand...

Thanks I’ll probably be going back into business I am looking into buying cleaning firm as in windows or commercial cleaners but I have others business this was just for me to see weather it was worth it with my kids etc 

really appreciate the feedback 

ive been researching and omg more and more windy do keep popping up haha 

the plan l had was basically to do an uber - cut the price massively 

but I think it will be best I just continue on buying business and trying to buy into cleaning 

Royf91 said:

the plan l had was basically to do an uber - cut the price massively 

Click to expand...

Investing £40k and slashing the profit margin doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. If the prices were exceptionally high then it might work. I doubt however they are in Merseyside and the danger would be that you got your customer base because you were cheap. 

Part Timer said:

Investing £40k and slashing the profit margin doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. If the prices were exceptionally high then it might work. I doubt however they are in Merseyside and the danger would be that you got your customer base because you were cheap. 

Click to expand...

True I’ve been working it out and it’s gunna take some houses like but I am thinking of just looking at other things 

Royf91 said:

the plan l had was basically to do an uber - cut the price massively 

Click to expand...

So whilst people like me are out there still freshly on the ground (so to speak) within this industry giving a reasonable quote once everything is put into consideration. 

People like you come along and massively under cut prices?

No wonder people out there don’t have much respect for this industry if people like you come aslong and massively under cut jobs. 

That’s my rant. Good of luck to you. 

Must be said i kinda don't like this topic much either. Kinda sounds like "I want to setup something making other people earn my worth while knowing nothing about it and i want to undercut every other hard grafter in the process".

You ain't gonna get much help on this in reality are you Roy.

OnPoint said:

So whilst people like me are out there still freshly on the ground (so to speak) within this industry giving a reasonable quote once everything is put into consideration. 

People like you come along and massively under cut prices?

No wonder people out there don’t have much respect for this industry if people like you come aslong and massively under cut jobs. 

That’s my rant. Good of luck to you. 

Click to expand...

Again kiddo asking for people to give me advice on the industry yet again mate business is business 

i haven’t gotten where I am today in give my respect out to ever business owner just because they are in the same industry as me so don’t take it personal 

at the end end of the day under cutting has been proven to work 

groupon under cuts people but people don’t moan about that

money is money as I am wanting to expand my businesses   

Tango said:

Must be said i kinda don't like this topic much either. Kinda sounds like "I want to setup something making other people earn my worth while knowing nothing about it and i want to undercut every other hard grafter in the process".

You ain't gonna get much help on this in reality are you Roy.

Click to expand...

Well it’s advice like I said I own multiple businesses and I need the freedom with my little boy and girl 

especially my little girl as she depends more on me 

Ime sorry to hear the situation with your kids must be hard , but coming on hear asking for help then saying about under cutting ones doing the job all ready isn’t going to warm you to them is it , doing that is a race to the bottom we need professional people pushing this Indy forward not shooting it in the foot , you cannot have cheap and quality service the two never go together , we are a fair bit more than our competitors but we still keep the jobs as they are unreasonable and do a poor job and get the industry a bad name , you sound like someone who isn’t short of money running several business best to try and expand them and forget windows I don’t think it’s for you it’s not a quick way to make money until you are well established and got a good reputation and by the sound of it your business wouldn’t fall into that category 

Pjj said:

Ime sorry to hear the situation with your kids must be hard , but coming on hear asking for help then saying about under cutting ones doing the job all ready isn’t going to warm you to them is it , doing that is a race to the bottom we need professional people pushing this Indy forward not shooting it in the foot , you cannot have cheap and quality service the two never go together , we are a fair bit more than our competitors but we still keep the jobs as they are unreasonable and do a poor job and get the industry a bad name , you sound like someone who isn’t short of money running several business best to try and expand them and forget windows I don’t think it’s for you it’s not a quick way to make money until you are well established and got a good reputation and by the sound of it your business wouldn’t fall into that category 

Click to expand...

Fair play pjj and I appreciate what you have said we are looking into expanding now aswell 

thanks you for the advice and I am not trying to **** any off I was just trying to test the water on weather it’s worth spending any capital on it 

but I won’t touch it seem to be too meny in Liverpool and a lot of people are selling rounds 

witch makes me think and second guess the market too 

Roy if I was you I would spend 20k on equipment and spend 20k on buying an established round where your not  having to under cut the competition. Just make sure the round has been operating for a good while.

If you undercut you will be the one working for next to nothing and get ready to lose a massive portion of your customer base when you come to the conclusion you aren't making any money.

Most of the customers you will pick up will be the bad payers/people who don't want to pay the going rate, or can your come this week but not for the five months,  basically the customers most the windies in your area don't want/or booted of their rounds.

Decent customers don't just switch because a geezer offers to clean the windows for half the price. They want a proven  reliable professional service. If they're getting that most cannot be bothered switching. Most have set up Go Cardless/ Direct Debit payments with there current window cleaner. PIA having to change all that to save what in most instances would equate to a pint of larger a month....

THL4KEL said:

Roy if I was you I would spend 20k on equipment and spend 20k on buying an established round where your not  having to under cut the competition. Just make sure the round has been operating for a good while.

If you undercut you will be the one working for next to nothing and get ready to lose a massive portion of your customer base when you come to the conclusion you aren't making any money.

Most of the customers you will pick up will be the bad payers/people who don't want to pay the going rate, or can your come this week but not for the five months,  basically the customers most the windies in your area don't want/or booted of their rounds.

Decent customers don't just switch because a geezer offers to clean the windows for half the price. They want a proven  reliable professional service. If they're getting that most cannot be bothered switching. Most have set up Go Cardless/ Direct Debit payments with there current window cleaner. PIA having to change all that to save what in most instances would equate to a pint of larger a month....

Click to expand...

Legend for more advice thank you 

and I would only do go cardless I looked into 

the only thing I did find was a problem was trying to find a texting service for before and after clean it’s okay while it’s small but when you expand I’ll be texting all day haha 

well i seen a round going for 30 k witch was 8 k a month I think 

but I’ve heard lots of people way canvassing them yourself because of the clients with the other guy might not want you what are your thoughts on buying rounds tho is it worth it or is it a big risk 

I know I can do the cleans to a high standard 

I may take the back seat right now but that’s because I can I will only be starting out with one guy if I was to go into the game but I would only do WTF due to I’ve been on building site when I was 16 and me and height don’t mix haha

but I do have one more question there is no way to tire down a good customer I mean like contract etc let say for argument sake I was the best in window cleaning and I wanted to tire them down there just no way to because it’s not like a phone contract 

this is what baffled me over buying rounds there no agreement with the last person who cleaned there windows    

As for people in what I do 

so I own a few salons across the north west and I have a online business where I have a partnership with amazon 

but it we used to own a children’s Softplay Center witch was really fun and great money but it’s stressful with having kids there no matter how safe you make it you can’t stop a child from getting hurt 

now currently I am looking at getting to increase my net profit this is all for my two disabled children when there older I have a comfortable life but just want to sort my kids out so I know they are sorted 

but we are looking into Medium business 

courier business witch I have been apart of 

more salons 

Or a cleaning business in commical or domestic 

please excuse my spelling ******* nightmere dyslexia the joys 

When buying a round all you are buying is a list of names and address and good will , you could loose one or two jobs or the lot , I personally have only ever bought a handful of jobs off a friend and to be honest I only did that to help him out , it’s a big gamble but might pay off if you can afford to loose it all then go ahead but if not be careful bit like sticks and shares ??

To my way of thinking what I have Hurd about pricing in Liverpool that must be some round to bring in 8 k per month , what type of work is it and how many people does it take to do the work , ?? Some on hear imply in that area a house is done for £5 that’s a lot of houses for 8k if it’s commercial work how long are the contracts for ?? Again prices arnt good up there from what certain ones say , you know your area I don’t but that’s just some of the questions I would be asking . 

Pjj said:

When buying a round all you are buying is a list of names and address and good will , you could loose one or two jobs or the lot , I personally have only ever bought a handful of jobs off a friend and to be honest I only did that to help him out , it’s a big gamble but might pay off if you can afford to loose it all then go ahead but if not be careful bit like sticks and shares ??

To my way of thinking what I have Hurd about pricing in Liverpool that must be some round to bring in 8 k per month , what type of work is it and how many people does it take to do the work , ?? Some on hear imply in that area a house is done for £5 that’s a lot of houses for 8k if it’s commercial work how long are the contracts for ?? Again prices arnt good up there from what certain ones say , you know your area I don’t but that’s just some of the questions I would be asking . 

Click to expand...

Thank you again pjj legend and I will keep this in mine have talk over with my wife and she what she thinks as we have always been business partner so I’ll have to see what we both come too 

and don’t get me wrong I love to gamble just better if it’s in my favour ?

Even if it's a big round your only probably looking at 25 texts a day which once done are a copy and paste next month. Takes seconds to send them out.

Might take you longer than you think cleaning to a high standard if you have not done it before. Especially if you have 25 houses a day to clean.

If you buy the right round in the right area i.e. Wirral/Cheshire you should make good cash. But what you need to do is a lot of market research to know that if you do buy a round it's near to current market rate i.e not houses prices at a fiver when everyone else is charging a tenner.

Rounds are always up for sale by me but the houses are paying £3-£5 per clean... So not a viable option to purchase..

THL4KEL said:

Even if it's a big round your only probably looking at 25 texts a day which once done are a copy and paste next month. Takes seconds to send them out.

Might take you longer than you think cleaning to a high standard if you have not done it before. Especially if you have 25 houses a day to clean.

If you buy the right round in the right area i.e. Wirral/Cheshire you should make good cash. But what you need to do is a lot of market research to know that if you do buy a round it's near to current market rate i.e not houses prices at a fiver when everyone else is charging a tenner.

Rounds are always up for sale by me but the houses are paying £3-£5 per clean... So not a viable option to purchase..

Click to expand...

Worth a look into a lad I’ve got on my Facebook 

thanks for the insight and time for your advice much appreciated 

thanks 

roy 

Royf91 said:

and I would only do go cardless I looked into 

Click to expand...

Trouble there is canvassing - asking total strangers to sign up to a service like that will be interesting. When canvassing you not only pick up messers but also custys who are correctly cautious of canvassers and their bank details.

Royf91 said:

the only thing I did find was a problem was trying to find a texting service for before and after clean it’s okay while it’s small but when you expand I’ll be texting all day haha 

Click to expand...

Oh dear... You really do want everyone else to do it all for you don't you!

I send my own texts. I have an app that i use which automates everything for me. Every saturday my phone checks my calendar for the weeks clients and sends them a message to tell them i'll be with them during the week. Then the night before it sends a text saying i'll be there tomorrow (picked up from copying those customers onto a second calendar on the Sunday evening). It doesn't take me any time at all to send the texts. Most of the time i don't even know the texts have gone out - only on saturday when i get the odd one or two reply back asking for a specific day / time do i even know. As for sending a text when you're done that's a waste of time, either leave a calling card in the letter box which physically proves you were there, or an invoice. Text messages mean nothing - especially if the water has dried off by the time they get home.

Royf91 said:

I know I can do the cleans to a high standard 

Click to expand...

Really? - So why are you here asking for info on the industry at all? - The reality is you've never handled a WFP, a hose or brush head, never cleaned a 2nd floor window, got techniques for difficult angles etc. Saying you can do them to a high standard is laughable until you've had some practice. Yes it looks easy - just a big broom going up and down spraying water but trust me, it's really not quite as easy as you think.

Oh and you won't be able to do a high standard of cleaning by undercutting either. Trust me, good quality cleaning takes time and time is money in this game - if you spend 1.5 hours on a job charging as little as possible just to undercut the other windies you're going to find yourself not only overwhelmed with demand you can't satisfy but also unable to make a proper living.

Royf91 said:

I may take the back seat right now but that’s because I can I will only be starting out with one guy if I was to go into the game but I would only do WTF due to I’ve been on building site when I was 16 and me and height don’t mix haha

Click to expand...

You're not going into the game by paying someone else to go and do your graft while demanding they earn you back three times what you pay them. That's not only a lot of pressure but a recipe to fail. You sound like a knoiw_it_all management type - you know you can do a good standard of cleaning but you're never going to touch a pole and just pay someone else to go canvassing, find the work, sell your service, do the clean and then expect them to earn you mega money in return because you know it's possible - even though you won't do it yourself. What are you going to do when your employee comes back saying he's hurt his back using the pole? - Tell him it's not possible because you know from your lack of experience? You really need to start off by doing it yourself not just pretending to manage someone else so you can swan around pretending to be the successful guy. That other guy will soon smell the coffee and either go off by himself (taking your clients with him) or he'll demand a better hourly rate when he realises what other windies earn - one which you can't afford because you're undercutting.

Backing up what i've said... WTF - That's nothing to do with window cleaning and heights, it's WFP - Water Fed Pole. It's little things like that which will see you look an idiot when trying to manage employees who do the job. Even then on some jobs ladders are still unavoidable - so you'd better get experienced or you're gonna be sending people up them and then getting sued at some point. Remember that as the employer, YOU are legally responsible for their health and safety but also their TRAINING to do their job in the safest manner possible. If you're not going to do the job but employ someone else, how are you going to train him to use a ladder safely? use a WFP safely around electrical wires like phone lines? Use a hose safely where people won't trip up over it? - You've never done the job so you've never run into these issues and learnt from them so straight away the moment he sues you your defence is null and void in court.

Royf91 said:

so I own a few salons across the north west and I have a online business where I have a partnership with amazon 

now currently I am looking at getting to increase my net profit this is all for my two disabled children when there older I have a comfortable life but just want to sort my kids out so I know they are sorted 

Click to expand...

So you're struggling with those current businesses or else you wouldn't be looking at window cleaning. Look, if you're already struggling and can't expand those easily enough to give you the lifestyle you want then starting up yet another business  employing one person and expecting them to do all the work is not going to do you any favours either. You're going to spend more time on this business while claiming you need more spare time (that or you're going to pressure the worker into doing everything - which he'll then realise he can do himself and start up himself) and you're going to be constantly stressing / worrying about income and whether that employee has your interests at heart.

Also if you can't run your existing businesses to a standard where they are keeping you happy financially and can be expanded, then you're going to struggle with window cleaning - it's hard to break into, hard to pick up customers on someone elses patch, hard to sway people to switch (as others have stated) and even harder if you're not into it enough to go out there yourself. Obviously you can't then run those other businesses if you're out canvassing and cleaning yourself. You could employ 2 guys.. but as they're working together all day they'll soon work out how to go into business themselves and then your expenditure is lost.

Can't argue with you wanting to do the best for your kids, anyone who wants to provide a good future for their kids is a A+ parent in my view.

You need to do some realistic thinking if you're serious. Undercutting, high quality cleans, plus the costs of another persons salary is not a good recipe.

THL4KEL said:

Even if it's a big round your only probably looking at 25 texts a day which once done are a copy and paste next month. Takes seconds to send them out.

Click to expand...

Automation is key to this. I've only copied / pasted on a few occasions where my app / calendar failed for some odd reason (eg no 4G connection and the calendar on my phone didn't sync). Otherwise i never copy / paste. I had to program a 45 second delay between texts as i found that if a text was slow to send it could bugger up the next one being sent however they go automatically and i don't have to lift a finger to do it.

Holy ****... I should actually release a windies automation app...

Tango said:

Trouble there is canvassing - asking total strangers to sign up to a service like that will be interesting. When canvassing you not only pick up messers but also custys who are correctly cautious of canvassers and their bank details.

Oh dear... You really do want everyone else to do it all for you don't you!

I send my own texts. I have an app that i use which automates everything for me. Every saturday my phone checks my calendar for the weeks clients and sends them a message to tell them i'll be with them during the week. Then the night before it sends a text saying i'll be there tomorrow (picked up from copying those customers onto a second calendar on the Sunday evening). It doesn't take me any time at all to send the texts. Most of the time i don't even know the texts have gone out - only on saturday when i get the odd one or two reply back asking for a specific day / time do i even know. As for sending a text when you're done that's a waste of time, either leave a calling card in the letter box which physically proves you were there, or an invoice. Text messages mean nothing - especially if the water has dried off by the time they get home.

Really? - So why are you here asking for info on the industry at all? - The reality is you've never handled a WFP, a hose or brush head, never cleaned a 2nd floor window, got techniques for difficult angles etc. Saying you can do them to a high standard is laughable until you've had some practice. Yes it looks easy - just a big broom going up and down spraying water but trust me, it's really not quite as easy as you think.

Oh and you won't be able to do a high standard of cleaning by undercutting either. Trust me, good quality cleaning takes time and time is money in this game - if you spend 1.5 hours on a job charging as little as possible just to undercut the other windies you're going to find yourself not only overwhelmed with demand you can't satisfy but also unable to make a proper living.

You're not going into the game by paying someone else to go and do your graft while demanding they earn you back three times what you pay them. That's not only a lot of pressure but a recipe to fail. You sound like a knoiw_it_all management type - you know you can do a good standard of cleaning but you're never going to touch a pole and just pay someone else to go canvassing, find the work, sell your service, do the clean and then expect them to earn you mega money in return because you know it's possible - even though you won't do it yourself. What are you going to do when your employee comes back saying he's hurt his back using the pole? - Tell him it's not possible because you know from your lack of experience? You really need to start off by doing it yourself not just pretending to manage someone else so you can swan around pretending to be the successful guy. That other guy will soon smell the coffee and either go off by himself (taking your clients with him) or he'll demand a better hourly rate when he realises what other windies earn - one which you can't afford because you're undercutting.

Backing up what i've said... WTF - That's nothing to do with window cleaning and heights, it's WFP - Water Fed Pole. It's little things like that which will see you look an idiot when trying to manage employees who do the job. Even then on some jobs ladders are still unavoidable - so you'd better get experienced or you're gonna be sending people up them and then getting sued at some point. Remember that as the employer, YOU are legally responsible for their health and safety but also their TRAINING to do their job in the safest manner possible. If you're not going to do the job but employ someone else, how are you going to train him to use a ladder safely? use a WFP safely around electrical wires like phone lines? Use a hose safely where people won't trip up over it? - You've never done the job so you've never run into these issues and learnt from them so straight away the moment he sues you your defence is null and void in court.

So you're struggling with those current businesses or else you wouldn't be looking at window cleaning. Look, if you're already struggling and can't expand those easily enough to give you the lifestyle you want then starting up yet another business  employing one person and expecting them to do all the work is not going to do you any favours either. You're going to spend more time on this business while claiming you need more spare time (that or you're going to pressure the worker into doing everything - which he'll then realise he can do himself and start up himself) and you're going to be constantly stressing / worrying about income and whether that employee has your interests at heart.

Also if you can't run your existing businesses to a standard where they are keeping you happy financially and can be expanded, then you're going to struggle with window cleaning - it's hard to break into, hard to pick up customers on someone elses patch, hard to sway people to switch (as others have stated) and even harder if you're not into it enough to go out there yourself. Obviously you can't then run those other businesses if you're out canvassing and cleaning yourself. You could employ 2 guys.. but as they're working together all day they'll soon work out how to go into business themselves and then your expenditure is lost.

Can't argue with you wanting to do the best for your kids, anyone who wants to provide a good future for their kids is a A+ parent in my view.

You need to do some realistic thinking if you're serious. Undercutting, high quality cleans, plus the costs of another persons salary is not a good recipe.

Click to expand...

Tango OMG haha I appreciate what you have wrote 

And thanks for the In depth advice and yer ladders are really not on my good side as in it’s more training than anything 

yer I am having a good think about this 

If the round turns over 8k it will vat registered meaning the total sale price to be near 36k.Which won't leave much for tools and van etc out of the 40k.